Who Decided WJBK Detroit Should Be The Canadian Satellite Fox Affiliate?

[Gregg]

If you go to the TV Listings at www.tvguide.ca and put in a Winnipeg postal code, it looks like Winnipeg cable systems carry a mix of US network stations from North Dakota (WDAZ ABC, KGFE PBS), Minneapolis (WCCO CBS, KARE NBC) and Fox from Rochester NY which only does news at 10pm ET.

So many Canadian cities, including Ottawa, get their four U.S. networks from Detroit. That's great for the CBS station, WWJ-TV 62, which has NO local news department. But it also includes Fox 2 WJBK, which runs 8 hours of local news per day, of little interest to Canadians.

However Canadian cable systems could opt for Fox 31 WUHF Rochester NY, which only runs an hour of local news per day. So that gets me back to my original post... why not just make WUHF Rochester the standard Fox station for Canadian cable systems, regardless of some syndicated programs on WUHF overlapping with what's on Detroit's ABC, NBC and CBS stations? Viewers in Winnipeg don't seem to mind getting their U.S. stations from three different American markets, with some syndicated programming probably overlapping.

 

[dtuba]

KCTS (the PBS affiliate here in Seattle) can be seen on Bell & Shaw cable systems throughout Canada (not just the western part). I've fielded tech calls from Toronto and even the Maritime provinces.
Then again, KCTS is practically a Canadian station anyway- almost half of our viewer donation $$ come from Canadian viewers.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

That situation is repeated with PBS' smaller market border-adjacent stations like the ones in Watertown NY (Ottawa/Cornwall)and Erie PA (London).

But unlike Seattle, those stations are even more dependent on the cash haul from their larger Canadian city viewers.

The Erie station, WQLN/54, almost lost its carriage on Rogers in Ontario. They were going to use an existing fiber connection to replace it with Detroit's WTVS. Eventually, WQLN got a fiber feed to Rogers, and it remained on the system.

Buffalo is larger, but very much depends financially on the huge market of Toronto...

 

[Bluenoser]

KCTS (the PBS affiliate here in Seattle) can be seen on Bell & Shaw cable systems throughout Canada (not just the western part). I've fielded tech calls from Toronto and even the Maritime provinces.
Then again, KCTS is practically a Canadian station anyway- almost half of our viewer donation $$ come from Canadian viewers.

And I've seen mentions on KCTS of a group out of Vancouver (I think it's called Pacific Coast Public Television Association) that supports some of KCTS' programming.

 

[rjoc]

That situation is repeated with PBS' smaller market border-adjacent stations like the ones in Watertown NY (Ottawa/Cornwall)and Erie PA (London).

But unlike Seattle, those stations are even more dependent on the cash haul from their larger Canadian city viewers.

The Erie station, WQLN/54, almost lost its carriage on Rogers in Ontario. They were going to use an existing fiber connection to replace it with Detroit's WTVS. Eventually, WQLN got a fiber feed to Rogers, and it remained on the system.

Buffalo is larger, but very much depends financially on the huge market of Toronto...

Maine PBS seems to rely heavily on viewers in New Brunswick, they are mentioned often during pledge=breaks. ...they are carried on just about all Cable sytems in the province, I believe.

 

[Wright County Guy]

If you go to the TV Listings at www.tvguide.ca and put in a Winnipeg postal code, it looks like Winnipeg cable systems carry a mix of US network stations from North Dakota (WDAZ ABC, KGFE PBS), Minneapolis (WCCO CBS, KARE NBC) and Fox from Rochester NY which only does news at 10pm ET.

It looks like Thunder Bay gets everything from the Twin Cities (WCCO, KARE, KSTP, KMSP, and KTCA)--bypassing both the Twin Ports (Duluth/Superior) and Upper Michigan altogether.

Thunder Bay did get the big 3 and PBS from Duluth before 1985, via LP UHF translators in Grand Marais, MN, which took the Duluth signals over-the-air, THEN retransmitted those to LP UHF translators in Grand Portage, MN, which were then picked up for Thunder Bay's cable system--encompassing 190 miles! Needless to say, the signal quality could be less-than-perfect, especially in summertime tropo conditions.

There were attempts to build a microwave system in 1983, but it never happened. The CRTC debated and found that (at that time) satellite delivery of the Detroit stations was the way to go.

Much details here (via Northpine.com): http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/1986/DB86-219.htm

 

[Mr Tony]

Shaw changed the nets in Thunder Bay to Mpls from the CANCOM ones at beginning of year

The major Minneapolis TV stations are getting some added coverage north of the border. Canadian regulators have approved Shaw Cable's application to switch the source of its big-four U.S. programming in Thunder Bay to Minneapolis. Online listings indicate WCCO-CBS and KARE-NBC were already being carried in Thunder Bay, with KSTP-ABC, KMSP-FOX, and KTCI-PBS set to replace feeds from Detroit and Rochester, NY. Shaw told the CRTC that a customer survey indicated a preference for Minneapolis over Detroit. WCCO and KARE are already carried by most other cable systems in northwestern Ontario and Manitoba. The Thunder Bay system had originally carried Duluth stations but switched to Detroit satellite feeds in 1986 because of problems receiving the Duluth stations over the air. In addition to Canadian channels, all Canadian cable and satellite providers carry the big four networks from the U.S. plus PBS.

CRTC decision
http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2011/2011-749.htm

 

[Mr Tony]

Yeah I thought that was funny
being from Minneapolis KTCI kinda exists but not really. When it was analog KTCA was 2 and KTCI was 17
When the conversion hit they combined both into TPT2 and TPTLife (17) so its
2-1 KTCA
2-2 Minnesota Channel
2-3 TPTLife (17)
2-4 TPT Weather

 

[cyberdad]

If you go to the TV Listings at www.tvguide.ca and put in a Winnipeg postal code, it looks like Winnipeg cable systems carry a mix of US network stations from North Dakota (WDAZ ABC, KGFE PBS), Minneapolis (WCCO CBS, KARE NBC) and Fox from Rochester NY which only does news at 10pm ET.

In the mid to late 90s, when I was a frequent business traveler to Winnipeg, American network TV there was coming from Denver. Minnesota and North Dakota stations make far more sense, IMHO.

 

[azumanga]

In the mid to late 90s, when I was a frequent business traveler to Winnipeg, American network TV there was coming from Denver. Minnesota and North Dakota stations make far more sense, IMHO.

Did the place you stay at get their TV from cable or satellite? I always thought that the cable systems serving Winnipeg got their networks from Detroit / Rochester (before switching to the Twin Cities) with a couple coming from Grand Forks? As far as I know, the only Denver channel approved by the CRTC for carriage was KWGN.

 

[cyberdad]

In the mid to late 90s, when I was a frequent business traveler to Winnipeg, American network TV there was coming from Denver. Minnesota and North Dakota stations make far more sense, IMHO.

Did the place you stay at get their TV from cable or satellite? I always thought that the cable systems serving Winnipeg got their networks from Detroit / Rochester (before switching to the Twin Cities) with a couple coming from Grand Forks? As far as I know, the only Denver channel approved by the CRTC for carriage was KWGN.

This was nearly 20 years ago. I don't remember....but it was the same at both my primary hotel at the time (The Fort Garry) and the secondary (Westin). FWIW, I haven't stayed in either of these in over ten years, and I think they've both been re-flagged. (I think the Westin is now a Hilton. Not sure about the Fort Garry).

 

[mimo]

In addition to Canadian channels, all Canadian cable and satellite providers carry the big four networks from the U.S. plus PBS.

Not exactly true for all customers. Rogers does not carry fox on basic cable in some parts of Ontario. It's available on expanded basic only. I'll be regaining Fox once the landlord switches from Rogers to Bell in a few days.

 

[cyberdad]

I'll be regaining Fox once the landlord switches from Rogers to Bell in a few days.

Sidebar topic (apologies), but my gripe with Rogers is when I'm in a hotel where Rogers is the high speed internet provider. In at least some locations, they have timers, which have an annoying habit of booting me offline when I'm in the middle of doing my business e-mails or some other project. Then you need to re-login....only to be booted off once more again later!

 

[Mr Tony]

In addition to Canadian channels, all Canadian cable and satellite providers carry the big four networks from the U.S. plus PBS.

Not exactly true for all customers. Rogers does not carry fox on basic cable in some parts of Ontario. It's available on expanded basic only. I'll be regaining Fox once the landlord switches from Rogers to Bell in a few days.

the bolded was a c/p from northpine but technically its right
It doesnt say "in basic package"...it says "carry the Big 4 Networks from the US plus PBS"

 

[mimo]

I'll be regaining Fox once the landlord switches from Rogers to Bell in a few days.

Sidebar topic (apologies), but my gripe with Rogers is when I'm in a hotel where Rogers is the high speed internet provider. In at least some locations, they have timers, which have an annoying habit of booting me offline when I'm in the middle of doing my business e-mails or some other project. Then you need to re-login....only to be booted off once more again later!

Rogers got into trouble recently with the CRTC since they purposefully slow down the internet speed when the traffic increases in the late afterno0n and evening. They're a terrible provider, so I'm not surprised they bo0t you off after an hour. That and how they keep takin channels off the line up for basic subscribers while jacking the rates up. $50 for 20 channels is a rippoff.

 

[cyberdad]

I'll be regaining Fox once the landlord switches from Rogers to Bell in a few days.

Sidebar topic (apologies), but my gripe with Rogers is when I'm in a hotel where Rogers is the high speed internet provider. In at least some locations, they have timers, which have an annoying habit of booting me offline when I'm in the middle of doing my business e-mails or some other project. Then you need to re-login....only to be booted off once more again later!

Rogers got into trouble recently with the CRTC since they purposefully slow down the internet speed when the traffic increases in the late afterno0n and evening. They're a terrible provider, so I'm not surprised they bo0t you off after an hour. That and how they keep takin channels off the line up for basic subscribers while jacking the rates up. $50 for 20 channels is a rippoff.

Interesting.... It had seemed to me that there've been a fewer TV channels in hotels where Rogers is the provider. So I guess it's not my imagination. I'm also not exactly impressed with their cell service...just from my own limited and unscientific observation it seems Bell and Telus have been better.

 

[crainbebo]

For the poster that said they got Denver stns in their hotel room in Winnipeg, those stns [KCNC, KWGN, KUSA, etc] were carried on the Satcom F1 C-Band satellite, and were on there for years. I know of some East *and!* West Coast newspapers that carried KUSA, KCNC etc in their listings, because many people in the mountains or country got network TV from Denver since they were out of distance for local TV, and had a BUD/C-Band dish.

-crainbebo

 

[cyberdad]

For the poster that said they got Denver stns in their hotel room in Winnipeg, those stns [KCNC, KWGN, KUSA, etc] were carried on the Satcom F1 C-Band satellite, and were on there for years. I know of some East *and!* West Coast newspapers that carried KUSA, KCNC etc in their listings, because many people in the mountains or country got network TV from Denver since they were out of distance for local TV, and had a BUD/C-Band dish.

-crainbebo

The poster would be me. Thanks for the explanation.

 

[azumanga]

I know of some East *and!* West Coast newspapers that carried KUSA, KCNC etc in their listings, because many people in the mountains or country got network TV from Denver since they were out of distance for local TV, and had a BUD/C-Band dish.

In Florida, until the mid-1990s, The Gainesville Sun also had listings for WJBK and WDIV Detroit, as well as WXIA Atlanta and WRAL Raleigh, as Gainesville had no local NBC or CBS station at the time, and the cable systems in the western part of the Gainesville market were too far from the nearest affiliates in Jacksonville, Tallahassee, Orlando and Tampa Bay.

 

[HoustonListener]

It makes sense that people in Thunder Bay might prefer to watch Minneapolis stations because they are closer to Minneapolis than Detroit.