WHO'S GOT THE MOST ENCOMPASSING FM SIGNAL IN CALIFORNIA'S CENTRAL VALLEY?

[airpab]

I was up on the Grapevine and got Fresno and Merced stations!

My guess is KHTN 104.7 out of Merced? Their signal seems to get in to South Sac and all the way down to Bakersfield/North side Grapevine!

What are some others that cover a huge area and who has the best overall coverage in the Central Valley?

 

[kenrayc]

#1 Stations at Eshom Point (near Sequoia National Park) N/E of Visalia, 5200 ft above sea level, Calculated Average terrian 850 ft., All stations have around 17.5K Watts ERP. KFSO 92.9, KSJV 91.5, KBOS 94.9, KSEQ 97.1, KSOF 98.9, KFRR 104.1, and 107.5.

# 2 Meadow Lakes,N/E of Fresno/Clovis, 4600 ft above sea level Average terrain 2000 ft. KSKS 93.7 is grandfathered with 68K Watts ERP . all other around 2.5K watts ERP. KFCF 88.1, KVPR 89.3, KMGV 97.9, KLBN 101.9, KMJ-FM 105.9, KKBZ 105.1, and TV KSEE NBC 24, KFSN ABC 30, KFTV UNI 21, KGPE CBS 47, KAIL MY 7, and KFRE WB59, KNSO Telemundo 5, and many LPTV stations.


#3 Planada, Ca, East of Merced, 4377 ft above sealevel Average terrain 2000 ft average power 2K Watts ERP .KUBB 96.3, KHTN 104.7, and KDJK (The Hawk repeater) 103.9.

 

[MR5229]

The signal for 104.7 KHTN would be better however, if there wasn't a booster for another station in Bakersfield. I noticed last month when traveling to Los Angeles that from Kettleman City all the way to the Grapevine, the booster created a mis-mash of a signal on 104.7 FM. I'm not sure when the booster was built as 5 years ago, I remember KHTN was pretty clear from I-580/I-205 interchange to the Grapevine. Another note: KHTN and certain other Central Valley stations (Modesto/Merced/Fresno) make it all the way to the Eastern Bay Area, depending on location. KHOP 95.1 actually makes it all the way to San Francisco, if you're on a hill facing east. The signal is weak, but I could tell it was there.

 

[DanielBoone]

Kenrayc, you are a pretty sharp fella! You really know your stuff well! I am impressed! You must study those coverage maps like the bible. I read those maps too. Radio locator is one of my favorite websites! And from my experience of driving up and down the valley along 99, from Sacramento down to the bottom of the Grapevine, I would have to say, any transmitter (there a five or six that I know of) that is on that mountain above Mariposa (4,300 ft) delivers a pretty good signal. I would have to say 96.3 KUBB is one of the strongest and it's advantage in height has a lot do with it being that it is only 1,900 watts and having a non-directional pattern! That signal really gets out there! It's even pretty clear on Hwy. 108 above Sonora up to about Strawberry and also up around the Carson Pass on Hwy 88 near Kirkwood, with a good stereo of course. WOW!

 

[kenrayc]

The Planada site is good ,but the first one, Eshom point is the best, Highest elevation and with Average terrain factor, most power. The Coverage Maps on Radio-locator are based on the Average Terrain and don't represent the height above the valley floor, those stations go much further , example the Eshom Point stations go from beyond Bakersfield to the south and once on the grapevine their signal depending on co-channel intereance with LA can be heard to Valencia and going north they go as far as Turlock.

KHLX 93.1 is 20K ERP at 3,200 ft Sea level, Average terrain only 364 Ft. and there coverage map show them only reaching Sacramento, but their signal goes much further, even getting into the East Bay.

KSKS 93.7 is the stongest station over all in the valley, with the grandfather factor 68K Watts ERP at 4500 ft above sea level at Meadow Lakes.

 

[Madmansam]

KSKS 93.7 is the stongest station over all in the valley, with the grandfather factor 68K Watts ERP at 4500 ft above sea level at Meadow Lakes.

In Stockton, KQJK-93.7 booms in at my apartment over the KSKS signal. It's been that way when then KRXQ moved from 93.5 to 93.7 around 1986. But before that, I used to pick up that Fresno station when it was KFYE.

 

[DanielBoone]

I agree with 93.7 Kiss Country being the strongest. But, if it wasn't for the interference of 93.9 (Spanish Station)(don't know the call letter off hand) Modesto, Their tower is at Hwy.99 and Kansas Ave. in Modesto. Also, 93.7 Jack out of Sac that hits Stockton.

 

[Michael Rivers Kramer]

I feel this need to be put on the Central California board since most all of the stations mentioned don't have measurable audience in the Sacramento market. The radio geek footprint of a station more than ten times greater than 99.99 percent of radio listeners in general. 95 percent of all at home and work listening is within a 64 db level of a station.

The Radio-Locator maps are only accurate for the valley floor facilites. With those stations the 64 dbu contour is about 20 percent less than the 60 dbu red contour on the map.

Stations with facilities in the foothills, IE: The Sacramento Market's KHYL, KNTY, KCCL, KHLX, KTTA, KKFS, KBZC, KZZO, KNCI, KRXQ and the someday to be relaunched KLVS all have signals that are best measured with Longley and Rice propagation models due to their HAAT levels being irrelevant to the valley floor. The reaches of these stations are far greater than what Radio-Locator or FCC standard protection maps will show you.

It is important to note that the stations are only protected to the fcc standard 60 dbu for Classes A, C0, C, C1, C2 and C3 as well as all reserve band non-coms. Class B's are protected at the 54 dbu and Class B1's are protected at the 57 dbu. For example, while KHLX puts over 70 dbu over much of Sacramento (by longley and Rice standard) , the station is only protected to the 57 dbu (FCC standard) which only reaches Alhambra Blvd east of downtown.

This is why so many stations in Fresno, Merced and Visalia station's have such a huge reach. Their transmitting facilities, some grandfathered are in areas where the station's standard HAAT (local to the site) is irrelevant to the intended target market.

Another perfect example are the stations that are at risk on Mt. Wilson right now. Their respective stations' HAAT is around 3,000 feet, but they're at roughly 5700 feet above LA.

Anyway, the Central California board may be a better place for this discussion. In the San Joaquin Valley (the valley between the Delta and the Grapevine) have stations what have audiences in multiple markets.

The stations mentioned here have been ones that most Sacramento residence have never even heard of.

 

[DanielBoone]

What is HAAT? I know it stands for Height Above Average Terrain. But, my question is, "What's Average?" For example, If a tower/transmitter is 200 feet tall and it is sitting on a hill or mountain that is 4300 feet. The 4300 feet is sea level? Isn't it? Where does the AVERAGE come in to play? Just curious?

 

[Michael Rivers Kramer]

What is HAAT? I know it stands for Height Above Average Terrain. But, my question is, "What's Average?" For example, If a tower/transmitter is 200 feet tall and it is sitting on a hill or mountain that is 4300 feet. The 4300 feet is sea level? Isn't it? Where does the AVERAGE come in to play? Just curious?

It's only a few miles from the transmitter site in all directions. It's a relatively small distance. I'll have to look at the FCC rules.

 

[DanielBoone]

I knew you were wondering why this is on the Sacramento board. I think we are trying to determine which Central Valley radio station's signal goes farthest north into Sacramento best. Besides, the title of this board does say, "Sacramento and Central Valley." I don't know why Central Valley is listed, but, there are a lot of Sac stations (50k)watts reach as far as south as Stockton, Manteca, Modesto even Turlock (one of them)105.1 KNCI To me, I would think anything south of Galt, Sac/SJ county line would be considered Central Valley?

 

[Michael Rivers Kramer]

I knew you were wondering why this is on the Sacramento board. I think we are trying to determine which Central Valley radio station's signal goes farthest north into Sacramento best. Besides, the title of this board does say, "Sacramento and Central Valley." I don't know why Central Valley is listed, but, there are a lot of Sac stations (50k)watts reach as far as south as Stockton, Manteca, Modesto even Turlock (one of them)105.1 KNCI To me, I would think anything south of Galt, Sac/SJ county line would be considered Central Valley?

The Central Valley (which is not really an official name) is generally considered to be from Redding to the Grapevine. This includes the Sacramento Valley (which runs from the Delta to Redding) and the San Joaquin Valley which runs from the Delta south to the Grapevine. It seems that most people consider the Valley division to be the Sacramento & San Joaquin County line.

Most of the discussion regarding Fresno and Bakersfield centers on the Central California board. Radio stations like KMJ and the Fresno Bee Newspaper love to point out as being the top in thier field in Central California rather than a more inaccurate #1 in the Central Valley since the Sacramento media would trounce them.

Fresno is the largest metropolitan area in Central California but not the Central Valley.

The board sets theses sections up in an interesting way.

The Central California Board.... Bakersfield, Fresno and Modesto.

Funny, but the Fresno Area is bigger than Bakersfield.

Sacramento.... Sacramento and the Central Valley.

Sacramento radio station hardly ever mention the "valley" in promotions. Just the Sacramento Area.

Radio stations in Chico, Redding, Stockton, Modesto, Merced, Fresno, Visalia and Bakersfield usually do. They seem to really be Valley connected and many of their stations serve multiple markets in the valley.

The Sacramento stations only pay attention to the Sacramento Metropolitan Area and don't seem to use the word Valley or Central Valley much.

Television is different. The DMA includes everything from the Yuba/ Sutter area to Turlock, The Sierra Foothills and Eastern Solano County.
These Sacramento based stations (even those licensed in Stockton and Modesto are based in Sacramento) are very Sacramento centric. They do however market themselves as "Valley Stations" and give news and weather for Stockton and Modesto.

I propose that the Central California board be changed to the San Joaquin Valley board. Most of the population in Central California is in the San Joaquin Valley.

i feel everything else that is not in the Bay Area, Metro Sacramento, the Greater Los Angeles (including the IE), Metro San Diego, and the San Joaquin Valley should be posted on the California Board.

I guess for argument sake it wouldn't be bad to put Stockton and Modesto station info on the Sacramento Board since they are all in the same TV DMA. I certainly wouldn't include anything from Merced south.

Just my silly opinions.

 

[kenrayc]

I v'e always had that thought to, Sacramento, Stockton, and Modesto should be in one board, making Livingston the divider, especially since most Merced Stations can't be heard in Modesto and vice versa, Most Fresno station can be heard in Merced because of there Mountian sites, where most Modesto and stockton stations are on the valley floor and most can't be heard in Merced.

If I knew how to do it I would move this topic to the Central CA board, It just started here.

I believe the Average terrain is based on 10 miles from the site and is measured from 12 points Starting at 0 degrees and in 30 degree segments or it could be 8 in 45 degree segments. this is why Eshom Point is the best site, the peaks with- in 10 miles from north /east to south/ east are anywhere from 7000 ft to 10,000 ft above sea level, making the average terrain only 800 ft at 5,200 ft above sealevel with 17,500 watts ERP..

 

[kenrayc]

Hey MRK what is the link to the Longley and Rice Propagation Models?

 

[Michael Rivers Kramer]

Hey MRK what is the link to the Longley and Rice Propagation Models?

It's from the Canadian government.

http://lrcov.crc.ca/cov.php?lang=en

You'll need to drag the map over to California. You may want to set the receiver height at 9 meters. I know it seems high, but all of the US stations do it for their L-R models. It makes no difference on the mountain transmitters, but the 1.5 m receiver height setting seems to make the valley floor signals look weak and unrealistic. I notice that with all of the L-R maps that EMF uses with the FCC to prove City of License coverage, they use the 9.1 receiver height default on their programs.

I read some where that the receiver height is somehow compensated. Otherwise, EMF is cheating by using some TV antenna model to prove city of license coverage on some of their station upgrades and moves. I certainly would NEVER expect Educational Media Foundation to cheat. Perhaps an engineer could enlighten us.

 

[Madmansam]

I knew you were wondering why this is on the Sacramento board. I think we are trying to determine which Central Valley radio station's signal goes farthest north into Sacramento best. Besides, the title of this board does say, "Sacramento and Central Valley." I don't know why Central Valley is listed, but, there are a lot of Sac stations (50k)watts reach as far as south as Stockton, Manteca, Modesto even Turlock (one of them)105.1 KNCI To me, I would think anything south of Galt, Sac/SJ county line would be considered Central Valley?

The Central Valley (which is not really an official name) is generally considered to be from Redding to the Grapevine. This includes the Sacramento Valley (which runs from the Delta to Redding) and the San Joaquin Valley which runs from the Delta south to the Grapevine. It seems that most people consider the Valley division to be the Sacramento & San Joaquin County line.

Most of the discussion regarding Fresno and Bakersfield centers on the Central California board. Radio stations like KMJ and the Fresno Bee Newspaper love to point out as being the top in thier field in Central California rather than a more inaccurate #1 in the Central Valley since the Sacramento media would trounce them.

Fresno is the largest metropolitan area in Central California but not the Central Valley.

The board sets theses sections up in an interesting way.

The Central California Board.... Bakersfield, Fresno and Modesto.

Funny, but the Fresno Area is bigger than Bakersfield.

Sacramento.... Sacramento and the Central Valley.

Sacramento radio station hardly ever mention the "valley" in promotions. Just the Sacramento Area.

Radio stations in Chico, Redding, Stockton, Modesto, Merced, Fresno, Visalia and Bakersfield usually do. They seem to really be Valley connected and many of their stations serve multiple markets in the valley.

The Sacramento stations only pay attention to the Sacramento Metropolitan Area and don't seem to use the word Valley or Central Valley much.

Television is different. The DMA includes everything from the Yuba/ Sutter area to Turlock, The Sierra Foothills and Eastern Solano County.
These Sacramento based stations (even those licensed in Stockton and Modesto are based in Sacramento) are very Sacramento centric. They do however market themselves as "Valley Stations" and give news and weather for Stockton and Modesto.

I propose that the Central California board be changed to the San Joaquin Valley board. Most of the population in Central California is in the San Joaquin Valley.

i feel everything else that is not in the Bay Area, Metro Sacramento, the Greater Los Angeles (including the IE), Metro San Diego, and the San Joaquin Valley should be posted on the California Board.

I guess for argument sake it wouldn't be bad to put Stockton and Modesto station info on the Sacramento Board since they are all in the same TV DMA. I certainly wouldn't include anything from Merced south.

Just my silly opinions.

I agree with you. Stockton & Modesto should be included with Sacramento.

 

[kenrayc]

It's true they should be divided like the TV markets, Here's one thing the Population of Fresno is larger than the population of Sacramento, this is not counting Clovis or any other adjacent city, but the Sacramento-Stockton-Modesto TV market is bigger than the Fresno-Visalia-Merced TV Market, and the radio stations are marketed to a point ,the same. The two board would be more porportional. kind of like congressional districts. Of coarse Central CA would still include Bakersfield ,but not SLOSanta Maria and Santa Barbara that would go to the California Board.

 

[DaveBayArea]

I had to chime in here. KSTN - licensed to Stockton. Pretty much the coast to the Sierras, I've heard it in Paradise to the north, not sure how far south. But that Mt. Diablo transmitter site and grandfathered power is a real killer.

 

[Michael Rivers Kramer]

It's true they should be divided like the TV markets, Here's one thing the Population of Fresno is larger than the population of Sacramento, this is not counting Clovis or any other adjacent city, but the Sacramento-Stockton-Modesto TV market is bigger than the Fresno-Visalia-Merced TV Market, and the radio stations are marketed to a point ,the same. The two board would be more porportional. kind of like congressional districts. Of coarse Central CA would still include Bakersfield ,but not SLOSanta Maria and Santa Barbara that would go to the California Board.

City proper populations are meaningless. San Jose is bigger than San Francisco etc. The Sacramento radio market is twice as big the Fresno market. The Sacramento radio market does NOT include Stockton and Modesto, nor does Fresno include Merced and Visalia. Sacramento has a huge population (areas even with a Sacramento address) outside of the city limits. Fresno annexed most of its suburban areas except for Clovis.

 

[kenrayc]

It's true they should be divided like the TV markets, Here's one thing the Population of Fresno is larger than the population of Sacramento, this is not counting Clovis or any other adjacent city, but the Sacramento-Stockton-Modesto TV market is bigger than the Fresno-Visalia-Merced TV Market, and the radio stations are marketed to a point ,the same. The two board would be more porportional. kind of like congressional districts. Of coarse Central CA would still include Bakersfield ,but not SLOSanta Maria and Santa Barbara that would go to the California Board.

City proper populations are meaningless. San Jose is bigger than San Francisco etc. The Sacramento radio market is twice as big the Fresno market. The Sacramento radio market does NOT include Stockton and Modesto, nor does Fresno include Merced and Visalia. Sacramento has a huge population (areas even with a Sacramento address) outside of the city limits. Fresno annexed most of its suburban areas except for Clovis.

Yes I agree that these cities are separate arbitron markets but Fresno and Visalia share over 90 percent of the same radio stations some stations Licensed to Visalia and Tulare have their studios in Fresno, if you look at the ratings for both most of the same stations are in the top 10, the only stations in Visalia only and Fresno only are a few Class a and B1 stations. So advertizing wise Fresno and Visalia are in the same market, just like San Jose stations reach San Francisco and vise versa.

As far as the size of the Fresno arbitron market ,there is Clovis which is near 100,000 poputation and also count Madera, Sanger, Selma ,Kingsburg, Fowler,and Reedley.