Why are San Francisco DJs so much worse than other markets?

[radiotrends]

I understand why you can take pretty much any DJ on any shift in Los Angeles, and he or she will sound better than the comparable shift/station in SF. JoJo Wright is better than any night jock in SF. Ryan Seacrest (when he was at Star 98.7) was better than the afternoon jock at Star 101.3. Most jocks at K-Earth were better than most at KFRC. I understand this, though, because LA has so many more listeners than SF.

But why are DJs in markets like Salt Lake City, Portland, Denver, Austin, and others, so much better than the talent in San Francisco? And why do the stations sound better overall in these mid size markets? Do the better jocks work in smaller markets to have more flexibility and a lower cost of living? Take the staff of a KYGO in denver or a K-Bull in Salt Lake, and compare it to the talent-less staff of 95.7 The Bear, and wonder why the Bear failed? So how is it that market #35 can attract true air talent, and market #4 hires people straight from college radio stations? Have you heard some of the weekenders on Alice? Good lord. The part-timers in Altoona Pennsylvania or Spokane Washington are better than some of these gals.

My best guess is that the corporations pay the same low salaries, regardless of where you live. So the best jocks realize they can buy a house in Salt Lake City for $200,000, and live a happy life. But they can't live off $40K a year in SF. So they don't even bother. Is this the case?

I really miss the days of lineups full of real talent, like late 80's / early 90's KIIS fm - Brother Bill, Rick Dees, Bruce Vidal, Magic Matt, Hollywood Hamilton, Wendy, Whitney Allen. Do the next generation of these guys simply not exist in the bay?

Also, for those of you who praise Sirius and XM - these stations are just awful. The satellite music DJs are mostly voicetracked and boring as can be. This isn't real radio by any means. It's bad enough with corporate radio of 2007. Now take away phone calls and any form of true interaction with listeners. Are people just used to bad radio and just accept it as being "standard" and/or "good"? I'm bewildered.

 

[calguy]

I understand why you can take pretty much any DJ on any shift in Los Angeles, and he or she will sound better than the comparable shift/station in SF. JoJo Wright is better than any night jock in SF. Ryan Seacrest (when he was at Star 98.7) was better than the afternoon jock at Star 101.3. Most jocks at K-Earth were better than most at KFRC. I understand this, though, because LA has so many more listeners than SF.

But why are DJs in markets like Salt Lake City, Portland, Denver, Austin, and others, so much better than the talent in San Francisco? And why do the stations sound better overall in these mid size markets? Do the better jocks work in smaller markets to have more flexibility and a lower cost of living? Take the staff of a KYGO in denver or a K-Bull in Salt Lake, and compare it to the talent-less staff of 95.7 The Bear, and wonder why the Bear failed? So how is it that market #35 can attract true air talent, and market #4 hires people straight from college radio stations? Have you heard some of the weekenders on Alice? Good lord. The part-timers in Altoona Pennsylvania or Spokane Washington are better than some of these gals.

My best guess is that the corporations pay the same low salaries, regardless of where you live. So the best jocks realize they can buy a house in Salt Lake City for $200,000, and live a happy life. But they can't live off $40K a year in SF. So they don't even bother. Is this the case?

I really miss the days of lineups full of real talent, like late 80's / early 90's KIIS fm - Brother Bill, Rick Dees, Bruce Vidal, Magic Matt, Hollywood Hamilton, Wendy, Whitney Allen. Do the next generation of these guys simply not exist in the bay?

Also, for those of you who praise Sirius and XM - these stations are just awful. The satellite music DJs are mostly voicetracked and boring as can be. This isn't real radio by any means. It's bad enough with corporate radio of 2007. Now take away phone calls and any form of true interaction with listeners. Are people just used to bad radio and just accept it as being "standard" and/or "good"? I'm bewildered.

Wow, pretty good observations, but I must say that at one time San Francisco had some of the very finest deejays in America. San Francisco used to have very creative production as well with promos and commercials that were as good as any in the nation. Even as recently as a few years ago you could hear one of the nation's finest Bobby Ocean doing pm drive at KFRC-FM. As for line-ups, it would've been hard to beat any of the staff incarnations at 610 KFRC from 1966 through 1983 or so, and even in the mid-eighties KFRC-AM could boast some great talent led by the incomparable Dr. Don Rose.

Presently SF sounds pretty much like every other major market thanks to corporate consolidation. Most people point to Clear Channel as being guilty of homogenizing radio, but other companies have followed suit in many ways and only a few stand out as trying to do radio the old fashioned way.

The advantage of working in smaller or medium markets outside of California is lower housing prices and cost of living. It's very expensive to live in California and even a hundred grand can be hard to make ends meet on when you factor in having kids and all of the expenditures that family involves. True, the majors don't pay as well as they used to because of consolidation, but will lavish dollars on a chosen few, and not all of them are that great. You pointed to Ryan Seacrest as being one of the better jocks, but he's actually pretty vanilla, and when he moved to KIIS all he did was re-name all of Rick Dees features and then take credit for being creative. His real strength is his exposure on TV. He's not even that good at that, but heads the list of many on the tube now who are only there because they're pretty. Without producers, writers and assistants they'd be lost.

As for some of the talent you referred to on Alice and others, I would blame the programmers who hire them. Many pd's have little experience and very poor taste. Also, today's newer pd's have little on-air experience and have no way of helping new talent to get any better. Then there's the farm system. It's dead thanks to voice tracking. Meaning there's little to choose from, so many major market pd's will hire people with little or no history in radio, and others will hire the inexperienced so they can control and mold them into what they want. Oh and lets not forget the pd's who refuse to hire anyone who might be smarter or more knowledgeable because they fear them... Radio, it ain't what it used to be.

 

[Leeanne]

I understand why you can take pretty much any DJ on any shift in Los Angeles, and he or she will sound better than the comparable shift/station in SF. JoJo Wright is better than any night jock in SF. Ryan Seacrest (when he was at Star 98.7) was better than the afternoon jock at Star 101.3. Most jocks at K-Earth were better than most at KFRC. I understand this, though, because LA has so many more listeners than SF.

But why are DJs in markets like Salt Lake City, Portland, Denver, Austin, and others, so much better than the talent in San Francisco? And why do the stations sound better overall in these mid size markets? Do the better jocks work in smaller markets to have more flexibility and a lower cost of living? Take the staff of a KYGO in denver or a K-Bull in Salt Lake, and compare it to the talent-less staff of 95.7 The Bear, and wonder why the Bear failed? So how is it that market #35 can attract true air talent, and market #4 hires people straight from college radio stations? Have you heard some of the weekenders on Alice? Good lord. The part-timers in Altoona Pennsylvania or Spokane Washington are better than some of these gals.

My best guess is that the corporations pay the same low salaries, regardless of where you live. So the best jocks realize they can buy a house in Salt Lake City for $200,000, and live a happy life. But they can't live off $40K a year in SF. So they don't even bother. Is this the case?

I really miss the days of lineups full of real talent, like late 80's / early 90's KIIS fm - Brother Bill, Rick Dees, Bruce Vidal, Magic Matt, Hollywood Hamilton, Wendy, Whitney Allen. Do the next generation of these guys simply not exist in the bay?

Also, for those of you who praise Sirius and XM - these stations are just awful. The satellite music DJs are mostly voicetracked and boring as can be. This isn't real radio by any means. It's bad enough with corporate radio of 2007. Now take away phone calls and any form of true interaction with listeners. Are people just used to bad radio and just accept it as being "standard" and/or "good"? I'm bewildered.

first of all...l.... most dj's in SF are voice tracked. all clear channel stations have voice tracked weekends.... (on clear channel stations,NOT ONE DJ After 7pm during the week is live and no one is live on weekends)
secondly.....sure you can live in salt lake on 40 k a year but unfortunatley radio jobs in salt lake dont pay that much.....
thirdly.... those straight out of college dj's in matket 4 dont get paid what the experienced market 4 dj's do( so its basically cheap labor, and if they suck , its not hurting anything, cuz it beats being voicetracked).. i know this cuz i was one of them.....
sorry i agree wiuth most of what you are saying here, i just had to put in my 2 cents.....

 

[LKellerIII]

I agree with most of what was said above. There is more voice-tracking than ever, and DJs aren't valued anymore because corporate owners have assumed that people want to just hear music. And it's a bonus that they get to save a lot of money hiring people who are often no more than liner-card readers. And stations are running jock-less more and more frequently - look at Max and Movin.'

I should point out though that Jo Jo Wright worked evenings in the Bay Area at Wild 107, and Ryan Seacrest was the afternoon jock at K-101 for awhile. Like anybody with ambition, they split for the bigtime in LA when they had the chance

 

[calguy]

first of all...l.... most dj's in SF are voice tracked. all clear channel stations have voice tracked weekends.... (on clear channel stations,NOT ONE DJ After 7pm during the week is live and no one is live on weekends)
secondly.....sure you can live in salt lake on 40 k a year but unfortunatley radio jobs in salt lake dont pay that much.....
thirdly.... those straight out of college dj's in matket 4 dont get paid what the experienced market 4 dj's do( so its basically cheap labor, and if they suck , its not hurting anything, cuz it beats being voicetracked).. i know this cuz i was one of them.....
sorry i agree wiuth most of what you are saying here, i just had to put in my 2 cents.....

Why is it that no Clear Channel station in SF is live after 7pm? That's not the case in LA and while one is market 2 and the other is market 4, the 2 largest markets on the west coast used to be pretty close in both salary and operation of stations. How sad... Oh and you're right, cost of living in smaller markets outside of California may have a lower cost of living, but the pay rates are lower too and considering that many major market jocks have to struggle on much lower salaries than before. What does that say about working on the radio?

I agree with most of what was said above. There is more voice-tracking than ever, and DJs aren't valued anymore because corporate owners have assumed that people want to just hear music. And it's a bonus that they get to save a lot of money hiring people who are often no more than liner-card readers. And stations are running jock-less more and more frequently - look at Max and Movin.'

I should point out though that Jo Jo Wright worked evenings in the Bay Area at Wild 107, and Ryan Seacrest was the afternoon jock at K-101 for awhile. Like anybody with ambition, they split for the bigtime in LA when they had the chance

You're right, but I must say, Seacrest only went to SF when he lost his gig at Star 98.7 in LA, and spent his San Francisco run working hard to get back to LA as fast as he could because he had TV ambitions from the get go. He's never impressed me in any way other than the fact that he's always had a singular goal to be rich & famous.

 

[calguy]

I might add another reason why many on-air talent sound so inexperienced. That's what programmers want! They shun those who sound like "radio people". They want what many programmers call "natural" sounding talent. While in some cases that might work if the talent is above average, it unfortunately leads to many problems. Sloppy shows, poorly kept program and in some cases transmitter logs, no knowledge of what you can and cannot say on the air and less understanding of how to breath. They have poor mic technique and well, the list goes on and on. That's why in the "old days" you worked your way up to the majors. It used to take years to get to New York, Chicago, LA and the rest of the top ten. Listen to Bill Handel on KFI. He's outspoken and highly rated. However he snorts air through his nose and treats the microphone as if it's a blunt instrument. So beware, if you're smooth, have a nice voice and good inflection, you're going to have a tough time getting a gig except for a few formats like Classical or Soft AC or perhaps the ever illusive Oldies station...

 

[HenryOchs]

I agree with most of what was said above. There is more voice-tracking than ever, and DJs aren't valued anymore because corporate owners have assumed that people want to just hear music. And it's a bonus that they get to save a lot of money hiring people who are often no more than liner-card readers. And stations are running jock-less more and more frequently - look at Max and Movin.'

I should point out though that Jo Jo Wright worked evenings in the Bay Area at Wild 107, and Ryan Seacrest was the afternoon jock at K-101 for awhile. Like anybody with ambition, they split for the bigtime in LA when they had the chance

I agree with most of what was said above. There is more voice-tracking than ever, and DJs aren't valued anymore because corporate owners have assumed that people want to just hear music. And it's a bonus that they get to save a lot of money hiring people who are often no more than liner-card readers. And stations are running jock-less more and more frequently - look at Max and Movin.'

I should point out though that Jo Jo Wright worked evenings in the Bay Area at Wild 107, and Ryan Seacrest was the afternoon jock at K-101 for awhile. Like anybody with ambition, they split for the bigtime in LA when they had the chance

I think The Eric and Kathy Show at The Mix in Chicago is by far better than most of the radio personalities in San Francisco right now!!!!! Too many good things to explain about their show, but you should check out their show for yourself, weekdays from 3:30-8am at www.wtmx.com

 

[dharmadoug]

all clear channel stations have voice tracked weekends.... (on clear channel stations,NOT ONE DJ After 7pm during the week is live and no one is live on weekends)
secondly....

thats crap. KYLD has a live jock. KMEL has a live jock. Evenings and most dayparts on the weekends are both live as well... you should pay attention before you just throw out false assumptions.

 

[TheLaffer]

I understand why you can take pretty much any DJ on any shift in Los Angeles, and he or she will sound better than the comparable shift/station in SF. JoJo Wright is better than any night jock in SF. Ryan Seacrest (when he was at Star 98.7) was better than the afternoon jock at Star 101.3. Most jocks at K-Earth were better than most at KFRC. I understand this, though, because LA has so many more listeners than SF.

But why are DJs in markets like Salt Lake City, Portland, Denver, Austin, and others, so much better than the talent in San Francisco? And why do the stations sound better overall in these mid size markets? Do the better jocks work in smaller markets to have more flexibility and a lower cost of living? Take the staff of a KYGO in denver or a K-Bull in Salt Lake, and compare it to the talent-less staff of 95.7 The Bear, and wonder why the Bear failed? So how is it that market #35 can attract true air talent, and market #4 hires people straight from college radio stations? Have you heard some of the weekenders on Alice? Good lord. The part-timers in Altoona Pennsylvania or Spokane Washington are better than some of these gals.

My best guess is that the corporations pay the same low salaries, regardless of where you live. So the best jocks realize they can buy a house in Salt Lake City for $200,000, and live a happy life. But they can't live off $40K a year in SF. So they don't even bother. Is this the case?

I really miss the days of lineups full of real talent, like late 80's / early 90's KIIS fm - Brother Bill, Rick Dees, Bruce Vidal, Magic Matt, Hollywood Hamilton, Wendy, Whitney Allen. Do the next generation of these guys simply not exist in the bay?

Also, for those of you who praise Sirius and XM - these stations are just awful. The satellite music DJs are mostly voicetracked and boring as can be. This isn't real radio by any means. It's bad enough with corporate radio of 2007. Now take away phone calls and any form of true interaction with listeners. Are people just used to bad radio and just accept it as being "standard" and/or "good"? I'm bewildered.

Overall radio doesn't pay what it used to pay. And most importantly who wants to move to a city where a Box apartment cost $1500/mo or a average 3/2 bedroom home $700K

To live in an average nice house/neighboorhood comfortably you would have to make at least 200K Plus and very few stations are paying that. Just ask the staff of the former KFRC. The 200K afternoon gigs are now 80K. The 400K morning gigs are $150

The really good talent is pretty much on the sideline these days.

 

[RadioCrusader]

it's not always the dj's fault! it's the handcuffs these wannabe programmers put on the talent! they don't want talent they want mindless sheep to read the cue cards and give a shout out to the "east bay"
radio killed radio not jocks with no talent

 

[gameon]

KLLC'S LIVE WITH JOCKS 530A-12m

CHECK OUT jAYN, wEBSTER AND dANYA ALL LIVE ALL PRETTY damn good

 

[ricoontheradio]

thats crap. KYLD has a live jock. KMEL has a live jock. Evenings and most dayparts on the weekends are both live as well... you should pay attention before you just throw out false assumptions.

Well put.

 

[Tom_KYA1260]

it's not always the dj's fault! it's the handcuffs these wannabe programmers put on the talent! they don't want talent they want mindless sheep to read the cue cards and give a shout out to the "east bay"
radio killed radio not jocks with no talent

Right on the money R.C. We need Tom Richard back on.

 

[Leeanne]

first of all...l.... most dj's in SF are voice tracked. all clear channel stations have voice tracked weekends.... (on clear channel stations,NOT ONE DJ After 7pm during the week is live and no one is live on weekends)
secondly.....sure you can live in salt lake on 40 k a year but unfortunatley radio jobs in salt lake dont pay that much.....
thirdly.... those straight out of college dj's in matket 4 dont get paid what the experienced market 4 dj's do( so its basically cheap labor, and if they suck , its not hurting anything, cuz it beats being voicetracked).. i know this cuz i was one of them.....
sorry i agree wiuth most of what you are saying here, i just had to put in my 2 cents.....

Why is it that no Clear Channel station in SF is live after 7pm? That's not the case in LA and while one is market 2 and the other is market 4, the 2 largest markets on the west coast used to be pretty close in both salary and operation of stations. How sad... Oh and you're right, cost of living in smaller markets outside of California may have a lower cost of living, but the pay rates are lower too and considering that many major market jocks have to struggle on much lower salaries than before. What does that say about working on the radio?

I agree with most of what was said above. There is more voice-tracking than ever, and DJs aren't valued anymore because corporate owners have assumed that people want to just hear music. And it's a bonus that they get to save a lot of money hiring people who are often no more than liner-card readers. And stations are running jock-less more and more frequently - look at Max and Movin.'

I should point out though that Jo Jo Wright worked evenings in the Bay Area at Wild 107, and Ryan Seacrest was the afternoon jock at K-101 for awhile. Like anybody with ambition, they split for the bigtime in LA when they had the chance

You're right, but I must say, Seacrest only went to SF when he lost his gig at Star 98.7 in LA, and spent his San Francisco run working hard to get back to LA as fast as he could because he had TV ambitions from the get go. He's never impressed me in any way other than the fact that he's always had a singular goal to be rich & famous.

well clear channel just plain sucks.
KSJO had no live jocks at all on the weekends and 7-mid mon - friday was voicetracked...
same with channel 1049
and star 1017
maybe they are diffrent at wyld or KMEL since people actually listen to wyld. and KMEL
clear channel also does a lot of piping in from other cities.
KCNL's morning show was piped in from texas and nikki blakk from KSJO recorded herself for a station in modesto. ricker on KSJO was recorded in san diego.
bottom line is clear channel ruined radio. all just to save a buck.

 

[Leeanne]

all clear channel stations have voice tracked weekends.... (on clear channel stations,NOT ONE DJ After 7pm during the week is live and no one is live on weekends)
secondly....

thats crap. KYLD has a live jock. KMEL has a live jock. Evenings and most dayparts on the weekends are both live as well... you should pay attention before you just throw out false assumptions.

hmmmm well i know many former jocks from there ... they were all on tape.
i am not just talking out of my ass ya know.

 

[Leeanne]

KLLC'S LIVE WITH JOCKS 530A-12m

CHECK OUT jAYN, wEBSTER AND dANYA ALL LIVE ALL PRETTY damn good

live 105 is live with jocks 24/7
but that will probably change soon.....

 

[RadioCrusader]

HMMM...yes leanne - you are talking out of your ass... i hate the place, but the truth is the truth...and what you are spitting is NOT!

 

[dharmadoug]

hmmmm well i know many former jocks from there ... they were all on tape.
i am not just talking out of my ass ya know.

chuy - kmel - 6am-10am - live
sana g - kmel - 10am-2pm - live
super snake - kmel - 2pm-6pm - tracked***
big von - kmel - 6pm-10pm - live
the lounge - kmel - 10pm-2am - jockless


t-man - kyld - 6am-10am-track / simulcast****
christy - kyld - 10am-3pm - live
st john - kyld - 3pm-7pm - live
joe breezy - kyld - 7pm-11pm - live

yeah, ur right leanne...all on tape... my bad..

kill all clear channel employees.

 

[Leeanne]

hmmmm well i know many former jocks from there ... they were all on tape.
i am not just talking out of my ass ya know.

chuy - kmel - 6am-10am - live
sana g - kmel - 10am-2pm - live
super snake - kmel - 2pm-6pm - tracked***
big von - kmel - 6pm-10pm - live
the lounge - kmel - 10pm-2am - jockless


t-man - kyld - 6am-10am-track / simulcast****
christy - kyld - 10am-3pm - live
st john - kyld - 3pm-7pm - live
joe breezy - kyld - 7pm-11pm - live

yeah, ur right leanne...all on tape... my bad..

kill all clear channel employees.

okay
well
kSJo when it was around, nikki blakk was 7-mid mon - fri ( never stepped foot in the on air studio)
mary diaz when she did weekends at wyld, never live always on tape
pauly @ KSJO and Channel 1049
always on tape, never live
KAT on channel.... on tape when she did weekends live when she did nights
lori thompson when she was at star fm weekends,... always on tape (NEVER live)
[EDIT]
maybe KMEL and wyld got smart and changed their ways, but the DJ's i know that worked for clear channel were ALL on tape
[EDIT]

[EDIT--inflammatory.]

 

[RadioCrusader]

poor leanne --- mary diaz was NEVER on tape @wyld on weekends ....only voice track on KISS and/star on weekends....sorry but you must work on your facts..

thank you