Why Are Some FM Translators Nowhere Near Their City of License?

[Gregg.]

Translators have a maximum power of 250 watts. You'd think they would be required to have their transmitters in their cities of license so local people there can hear them. But that doesn't seem to be the case for several translators I know of.

1) WMCA New York, a Salem religious station, has a translator on 102.3 FM. It's also licensed to New York. But it is on one of the towers for 930 WPAT in Clifton NJ. That's about 25 miles west of Manhattan.

2) 1570 WLRS New Albany IN has made news as the first station to switch to all Christmas music. In January, it will debut a new format. New Albany is across the Ohio River from Louisville KY. Its translator is licensed to Louisville. But it's really about 15 miles northeast of Louisville in Charlestown IN.

There's a rule that a radio station's signal must provide good coverage in its city of license. If you are somewhat near a large city, you can't just move your tower near that city and forsake listeners you are supposed to be serving. No matter how lucrative the move might be you can't do it if your hometown isn't also getting a good signal. But I guess that rule doesn't apply to translators?

 

[davideduardo]

Translators have a maximum power of 250 watts. You'd think they would be required to have their transmitters in their cities of license so local people there can hear them. But that doesn't seem to be the case for several translators I know of.

1) WMCA New York, a Salem religious station, has a translator on 102.3 FM. It's also licensed to New York. But it is on one of the towers for 930 WPAT in Clifton NJ. That's about 25 miles west of Manhattan.

2) 1570 WLRS New Albany IN has made news as the first station to switch to all Christmas music. In January, it will debut a new format. New Albany is across the Ohio River from Louisville KY. Its translator is licensed to Louisville. But it's really about 15 miles northeast of Louisville in Charlestown IN.

There's a rule that a radio station's signal must provide good coverage in its city of license. If you are somewhat near a large city, you can't just move your tower near that city and forsake listeners you are supposed to be serving. No matter how lucrative the move might be you can't do it if your hometown isn't also getting a good signal. But I guess that rule doesn't apply to translators?

Calling Fybush or Michi!

Translators are attached to rebroadcast licensed "full" stations. It's my understanding that if the translator is within certain contours of the station it repeats, that is all that matters. It does not have a "city of license" to itself, just that of the station it "translates".

I now defer to the experts.

 

[fybush]

Translators are licensed as a secondary service. COL coverage requirements apply only to primary services. There's no COL coverage requirements at all for translators. A fill-in translator for an AM station can be located anywhere such that the 60 dBu contour of the translator doesn't extend past either the AM station's 2 mV daytime contour or a 25-mile radius from the AM, whichever is larger.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Translators are licensed as a secondary service. COL coverage requirements apply only to primary services.

If I may add: The "COL" of a translator doesn't even have to be an actual community.

K233CG in Albuquerque, which translates AM 1050 Los Ranchos, has "Sandia" as its COL. Sandia is the name of the mountain crest where pretty much all of the market's FM and TV stations' transmitters are located. Number of permanent residents: Zero.

 

[Gregg.]

If I may add: The "COL" of a translator doesn't even have to be an actual community.

K233CG in Albuquerque, which translates AM 1050 Los Ranchos, has "Sandia" as its COL. Sandia is the name of the mountain crest where pretty much all of the market's FM and TV stations' transmitters are located. Number of permanent residents: Zero.

Reminds me a bit of Mount Washington, New Hampshire, the COL of 94.9 WHOM. Nobody really lives there either. A few folks have to stay there over the winter to work on the communications equipment. And there may be a park ranger or two there in the summer. Unlike Sandia, there is a post office there. It's for visitors who want to send post cards so it's only active in the summer. (Do people still send post cards when they go on vacation? Maybe the post office's days are numbered.)

 

[crainbebo]

We had one on 93.5 licensed to New Meadows ID. Relays KBSX-91.5, BSPR News. It's actually in Cambridge, way down Hwy 95 south of Council. Radio-Locator does show the translator is now licensed to Cambridge, but it was licensed for a long time to New Meadows.

 

[Gregg.]

K.M. mentions a translator in Albuquerque. That reminds me of another way translators are different than real FM radio stations.

Translators are limited to 250 watts. Class A stations have a maximum of 6,000 watts at 100 meters. Class B stations are limited to 50,000 watts at 150 meters. Class C stations can be powered at 100,000 watts at 600 meters.

The oddity is that all Class A, B and C FM stations have limits in height. If the HAAT goes above the maximum, the power must come down. The Class B stations on the Empire State Building are all around 6,000 watts because the height is so tall.

But that isn't true of FM translators. Those on high peaks like Sandia in Albuquerque are still powered at 250 watts, even though their height is over 4,000 feet. That makes them roughly equivalent to Class A stations.

 

[K.M. Richards]

But that isn't true of FM translators. Those on high peaks like Sandia in Albuquerque are still powered at 250 watts, even though their height is over 4,000 feet. That makes them roughly equivalent to Class A stations.

And that is why Albuquerque pretty much has a translator on every frequency that is technically feasible. Don Davis explained it all to me several years ago; he engineered many of the ones on Sandia.

 

[MarioMania]

Without making a thread

Question, I know Full Power Stations can knock off a Translator of LPFM off the air or have it moved if it feels like it's interfering with the full power signal

Can a LPFM force a Translator off the air or have it moved, If a LPFM want a frequency on the same channel 25 Miles away or can it just interfere with it

Or vise versa?

 

[K.M. Richards]

Question, I know Full Power Stations can knock off a Translator of LPFM off the air or have it moved if it feels like it's interfering with the full power signal

That is true, if the full-power FM can prove the interference exists. ("Feeling" like it's interfering isn't enough for the FCC.) Generally, such complaints include engineering exhibits and written statements from listeners to the station being interfered with as to the impact the translator has on their reception.

Can a LPFM force a Translator off the air or have it moved, If a LPFM want a frequency on the same channel 25 Miles away or can it just interfere with it

There is no provision for any licensed facility to force another to move. It is up to the FCC to determine what remedies apply in each interference complaint. On some rare occasions, a transmitter site has to be relocated, but more often it becomes a case of a translator changing frequencies or using a directional antenna to limit the signal in the interfering direction.

Translators are generally required to protect existing LPFMs when applying; LPFMs also must meet minimum mileage separations from translators. Translators can also file complaints against LPFMs whose signals interfere with reception of the station being rebroadcast on the translator.

More from @Michi's site:

Translator to LPFM interference handling | REC Networks

recnet.com

 

[secondchoice]

On of the most creative use of a translator COL I have seen is 101.1 W266BW Winder. 35+ miles from WJZA 1100 Hapeville GA (Atlanta) but is within the 25 mile rule of the transmitter site.

IMHO The whole COL concept has been worked around and abused to the point that your COL should be your SMA. Does anyone except the FCC care about the 6AM Sunday morning PSA / discussion show? There is a station that ran a interview with the Mayor of their COL every Sunday Morning for 3 years. The only problem was he didn't run for reelection and had been out of office for a year.

 

[Michi]

Here's the basics for many different situations:

Incumbent facility ▶️ Proposed/added facility 🔽	Existing Full Service	Existing FM Translator/Booster	Existing LPFM
New or modified Full Service	No grounds for a complaint as §§73.207 or 73.215 distances are met.	Full service can file a complaint if they can show that a certain number of listeners where U/D ratios are not met, but are within a 45 dBu contour of the victim station are predicted to receive interference.	Full service can file a complaint if the new or modified full-service facility will result in co-channel or first-adjacent overlap of the LPFM's (40 or 54 dBu) interfering contour and the full-service station's 70 dBu contour.
New or modified FM Translator/Booster	Full service can file a complaint if they can show that a certain number of listeners where U/D ratios are not met, but are within a 45 dBu contour of the victim station are predicted to receive interference.	Existing Translator can file a complaint if they can show that a certain number of listeners where U/D ratios are not met, but are within a 45 dBu contour of the victim station are predicted to receive interference.	LPFM can file a complaint if they can show that a certain number of listeners where U/D ratios are not met, but are within a 45 dBu contour of the victim station are predicted to receive interference.
New or modified LPFM	No grounds for a complaint as §73.807 distances are met.	No grounds for a complaint as §73.807 distances are met.	No grounds for a complaint as §73.807 distances are met.

 

[radiofan2023]

Does anyone except the FCC care about the 6AM Sunday morning PSA / discussion show? There is a station that ran a interview with the Mayor of their COL every Sunday Morning for 3 years. The only problem was he didn't run for reelection and had been out of office for a year.

KSCP AM used to run months old interviews with community group leaders at 6 AM Sundays as of a few months ago.

 

[Michi]

Can a LPFM force a Translator off the air or have it moved, If a LPFM want a frequency on the same channel 25 Miles away or can it just interfere with it

An LPFM station must meet the §73.807 minimum distance separations towards translators. §73.807 considers all translators to be nondirectional and puts them in three different "sub-classes" based on service contour size (ERP and HAAT (8 radials) curves calculation).

A translator treats most LPFM stations as a nondirectional facility (including directional LPFMs that are that way because of a second adjacent waiver) and can use contours to engineer the translator. This can create interference in the real world. This is why the rules in §§74.1203 and 74.1204 exist.

Neither a translator nor an LPFM can displace another. They are "equal in status" pursuant to the Local Community Radio Act of 2010.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

I'm gonna trot out my favorite ever city of license, and Scott Fybush Already knows which one it is

Cell Site, Montana.

Guess where the FM antenna is situated?

Yup, a cell tower!

 

[Michi]

There is an LPFM in the 2023 window that put their community of license as "AARP Insurance", NJ. The application is still pending as its in a group of mutually exclusive applications.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Does anyone except the FCC care about the 6AM Sunday morning PSA / discussion show? There is a station that ran a interview with the Mayor of their COL every Sunday Morning for 3 years. The only problem was he didn't run for reelection and had been out of office for a year.

I don't see that as a "problem". His experience as a public officeholder qualifies him to comment on a lot of topics that would be in the local community's interest even as a private citizen.

 

[K.M. Richards]

KSCP AM used to run months old interviews with community group leaders at 6 AM Sundays as of a few months ago.

Repeats of public affairs programs are not prohibited so long as the station concludes that they are still relevant and timely. In fact, there could be a good case made that the replays reach listeners who were not tuned in for previous broadcasts of same and are therefore "serving the public interest" by ensuring the program content is heard by as many interested members of the public as possible.

KRKE runs two national PA programs -- Radio Health Journal and Viewpoints Radio -- and the producers of same make the segments available as "mini podcasts" on their site. We also have a weekly two-minute program providing information to veterans on resources and programs and I'm on the third play of some of those individual shows.

 

[b-turner]

Public Affairs, as it is called, is a requirement of most licensees. It has very few rules. It need not be a weekly program. It might be daily or even monthly. There is not length requirement or content requirement. A station I worked for ran the same 72 half hour programs at one a week for about 20 years. The FCC seems not to want to define Public Affairs rules beyond what they are. One has to wonder if it is because Congress would have a fit if it was dropped as a requirement and because they know, as radio folks do, that public affairs airs early Sunday morning or other oddball time because so few are listening to the radio at that time. Listeners don't want to hear the programs.

Stations I worked carried a free national show. Every quarter we'd download their list and upload it to the FCC.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Stations I worked carried a free national show. Every quarter we'd download their list and upload it to the FCC.

We do the same at KRKE (in fact, we carry those on all our commonly-owned stations). I actually think it's a decent way to fulfill the obligation, since those shows have to focus on issues that will be of universal concern to everyone in order to make that quarterly report list relevant.

What surprises most people who hear the national commercials in those shows and ask why is that there is no prohibition from running commercials within PA programming. There does have to be caution taken to not run spots that relate to the topics of the show, lest it become recategorized as a infomercial.