The numbers were good why did the suits blow it up???Now i like the new station smooth jazz to boring for me but it has its place. Just wondering by all accounts didn't the smooth jazz format bill well?
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Why did they blow up the smooth jazz station if it has good numbers n bills well
- Thread starter hotpatrick2004
- Start date
These broadcast companies all think they have broken the magic Da Vinci Code for winning in PPM (the new ratings method). So, instead of just programming good radio to try to win, they are all trying to follow this formula which, apparently, says "Play classic hits and play these over researched songs into the ground!!"
Turned the radio dial into one big audio version of the old Florin Mall... a wasteland of broken store fronts trying to sell you second hand stuff.
Turned the radio dial into one big audio version of the old Florin Mall... a wasteland of broken store fronts trying to sell you second hand stuff.
hotpatrick2004 said:
Even without the PPM, the 25-54 numbers were eroding away. The billing had also been dropping apparently.
hotpatrick2004 said:
The 25-54 rank was around 24th for the tail end of '09, and billings were off quite a bit even before that, although it was still billing moderately well.
I received a press release for the launch of Radio 94-7. It looks like 80's, 90's, and alternative, with new stuff thrown in. I actually like the music on the new station. I was still sorry to see the smooth jazz go away. It was great background music for dinner. 
As many have said, I hope they add talent to give the station content. Regardless of PPM stats, that's why 98Rock is a good station...talent. I don't listen to MY, and rarely listen to Jack (only when searching presets for decent tuneage).
As many have said, I hope they add talent to give the station content. Regardless of PPM stats, that's why 98Rock is a good station...talent. I don't listen to MY, and rarely listen to Jack (only when searching presets for decent tuneage).
As I said in another thread, KSSJ was #7 in the January book and #6 in the December book, although as stated above, the 25-54 numbers were not good.
But do you throw the baby out with the bathwater? If you've got a station that's getting good overall ratings but is dropping in the 25-54 contest, can't you tweak it to get some 40-somethings listening? Do more promotions. Do a bigger morning show. KTWV in LA had musician David Koz teamed with veteran DJ Pat Prescott in mornings. Now they've got singer Brian McKnight and Prescott doing mornings. KTWV has fallen a bit but is still in the top 10 in revenues in LA.
In a People Meters world, don't stations that are good for workplace listening have an advantage? Isn't Smooth Jazz just such a format?
If an AC station sees its audience age, it gets rid of the 60s and 70s songs and adds more contemporarny artists. Classic Rock stations have reduced the Hendrix and The Beatles and have added more R.E.M. and Red Hot Chili Peppers to the playlist. Can't Smooth Jazz evolve? Why can't today's young adults, with more noise, traffic and stress in their lives, find some enjoyment in Smooth Jazz?
If you've got a station that's at #6 and #7 in the Sacramento ratings, do you blow it up or make an effort to salvage what you already have? I'll bet you a steak dinner this new format will be right down there next to #17 KZZO and #19 KBZC.
Gregg
[email protected]
But do you throw the baby out with the bathwater? If you've got a station that's getting good overall ratings but is dropping in the 25-54 contest, can't you tweak it to get some 40-somethings listening? Do more promotions. Do a bigger morning show. KTWV in LA had musician David Koz teamed with veteran DJ Pat Prescott in mornings. Now they've got singer Brian McKnight and Prescott doing mornings. KTWV has fallen a bit but is still in the top 10 in revenues in LA.
In a People Meters world, don't stations that are good for workplace listening have an advantage? Isn't Smooth Jazz just such a format?
If an AC station sees its audience age, it gets rid of the 60s and 70s songs and adds more contemporarny artists. Classic Rock stations have reduced the Hendrix and The Beatles and have added more R.E.M. and Red Hot Chili Peppers to the playlist. Can't Smooth Jazz evolve? Why can't today's young adults, with more noise, traffic and stress in their lives, find some enjoyment in Smooth Jazz?
If you've got a station that's at #6 and #7 in the Sacramento ratings, do you blow it up or make an effort to salvage what you already have? I'll bet you a steak dinner this new format will be right down there next to #17 KZZO and #19 KBZC.
Gregg
[email protected]
F
fmradio1
Guest
Re: Why did they blow up the smooth jazz station if it has good numbers n bills
Gregg, it doesn't matter about the overall ratings. It's just a beauty contest. A station can have high ratings overall, but if the demos aren't desirable to advertisers it won't make money. I'd be willing to bet that the Hot AC or Classic Hits station that gets a two share will outbill the smooth jazzer with a 4 share in most markets. In New York, hot AC station WPLJ hasn't cracked a three share 6+ in years, yet it's one of the top billing stations in the market. Why? More 25-54's are tuned in, and they live in the most affluent areas of the market. They're reaching target demos that advertisers really want. The overall ratings Arbitron issues for each market is just a small snapshot of what's happening. At the end of the day, it's ALL about the billing and not about the ratings. If an operator can generate more income with a lower rated format they'll do it.
Gregg, it doesn't matter about the overall ratings. It's just a beauty contest. A station can have high ratings overall, but if the demos aren't desirable to advertisers it won't make money. I'd be willing to bet that the Hot AC or Classic Hits station that gets a two share will outbill the smooth jazzer with a 4 share in most markets. In New York, hot AC station WPLJ hasn't cracked a three share 6+ in years, yet it's one of the top billing stations in the market. Why? More 25-54's are tuned in, and they live in the most affluent areas of the market. They're reaching target demos that advertisers really want. The overall ratings Arbitron issues for each market is just a small snapshot of what's happening. At the end of the day, it's ALL about the billing and not about the ratings. If an operator can generate more income with a lower rated format they'll do it.
Number 6 in a market and they drop it? Isn't that a little excessive? Now I can see if it was number 27, but they make it sound like the ratings were HORRIBLE when you read the note on their old site! Come on, if they were in the top ten, they should have been doing fine! Now if the demographic wasn't great, then that could make them go in a few years, but it sounds to me like they could have stayed a while!
cwkradio said:
They were number 24 in 25-54....Anything above 55 is worthless to advertisers. That age group is believed to uninfluenced by advertisers.
Ad Agencies won't even touch 55+
This had been the case nationwide in format. Arbitron gives the 6+/12+ numbers away and you see these on the website because 12+ doesn't matter much in terms of revenue. Magic 61 in San Francisco left the format in 1986 as a Top 5 station 12+. KEWT in Sacramento left the Beautiful Music Format in 1984 while in third place 12+. You could literally have a 5 share 12+ and a less than a 1 share 25-54.
cwkradio said:
Being Number 6 overall means nothing 6+. It ranked 24 in the 25-54 Demo where most of the money is. There isn't much money for the older demos.
Again...Being sixth place in 6 year-olds and older category means nothing if the most of the listeners on the station are either over 55 or under 18. NOTHING! Arbitron charges for subscribers and advertisers for data. They give away the 6+ numbers to the trades and on their website because they have no value.
If 55+ meant something... we would hear 50's-60's oldies on a full powered signal still. We would also have Standards on FM everywhere.
B
bobbybooey
Guest
cwkradio said:
The RATINGS of the 6+ DEMOGRAPHIC had KSSJ #6.
The RATINGS of the 25-54 DEMOGRAPHIC that advertisers actually give a RAT'S @$$ ABOUT showed KSSJ ranked #24.
You clearly don't understand what the RATINGS that Arbitron releases to the public represent, so you might want to step away from your CAPS LOCK and try to learn something from the posters here who've been in this industry for the past 20 years.
THANKS! ;D
Re: Why did they blow up the smooth jazz station if it has good numbers n bills
I have the Radio & Records ratings report from 2008. It shows KSSJ was #8 both in 12+ ratings and 25-54 ratings. My guess is its female 25-54 numbers were even better since Smooth Jazz leans a bit more toward women.
If a station drops THAT much in the 25-54 demo, maybe it isn't the format, maybe it's the execution. Two-thirds of KSSJ's audience didn't age out of the 25-54 demo in 24 months. Easy Listening as a viable format died because young and middle aged adults didn't want to hear Percy Faith and Henry Mancini play Beatles and Beach Boys instrumentals anymore. Easy Listening faded away... it didn't fall off a cliff as Smooth Jazz appears to be doing. Sacramento didn't wake up the other morning suddenly disliking the mix of jazz instrumentals and rhythmic pop ballads heard on KSSJ.
Owners have been notorious for allowing Smooth Jazz stations to run on auto-pilot. To keep their other formats doing well, they invest in morning shows, advertising, promotion, contests. But the theory was you could just have a few DJs in a small studio, talking to themselves, and playing jazz CDs, and everything will be fine.
Like all radio stations, Smooth Jazz needs some zip to keep 25-54 listeners interested. KSSJ didn't drop from #8 25-54 to #20-something in a matter of months because Sacramento suddenly doesn't like Smooth Jazz anymore.
So rather than blowing up a top 10 radio station, how about FIXING the thing?
Gregg
[email protected]
I have the Radio & Records ratings report from 2008. It shows KSSJ was #8 both in 12+ ratings and 25-54 ratings. My guess is its female 25-54 numbers were even better since Smooth Jazz leans a bit more toward women.
If a station drops THAT much in the 25-54 demo, maybe it isn't the format, maybe it's the execution. Two-thirds of KSSJ's audience didn't age out of the 25-54 demo in 24 months. Easy Listening as a viable format died because young and middle aged adults didn't want to hear Percy Faith and Henry Mancini play Beatles and Beach Boys instrumentals anymore. Easy Listening faded away... it didn't fall off a cliff as Smooth Jazz appears to be doing. Sacramento didn't wake up the other morning suddenly disliking the mix of jazz instrumentals and rhythmic pop ballads heard on KSSJ.
Owners have been notorious for allowing Smooth Jazz stations to run on auto-pilot. To keep their other formats doing well, they invest in morning shows, advertising, promotion, contests. But the theory was you could just have a few DJs in a small studio, talking to themselves, and playing jazz CDs, and everything will be fine.
Like all radio stations, Smooth Jazz needs some zip to keep 25-54 listeners interested. KSSJ didn't drop from #8 25-54 to #20-something in a matter of months because Sacramento suddenly doesn't like Smooth Jazz anymore.
So rather than blowing up a top 10 radio station, how about FIXING the thing?
Gregg
[email protected]
B
bobbybooey
Guest
Re: Why did they blow up the smooth jazz station if it has good numbers n bills
In 2008 Sacramento was still on the diary system... once Sacto switched to PPM, the ratings for KSSJ plummeted quickly, as they have for pretty much every smooth jazz station that saw a diary-to-PPM switch in its market's ratings methodology.
Gregg said:
In 2008 Sacramento was still on the diary system... once Sacto switched to PPM, the ratings for KSSJ plummeted quickly, as they have for pretty much every smooth jazz station that saw a diary-to-PPM switch in its market's ratings methodology.
T
The Lingerer
Guest
Not only did KSSJ lose ratings (and revenue) steadily since 2006, the PPM methodology was the stake through the heart. Median age shifted dramatically to 67, and last time I checked there aren't many advertisers looking to market to this group other than bathtub conversions and reverse mortgages.
D
Dick Skinner
Guest
As could you, DJ.
Clever
I tried to be vague on purpose. JACK is clever. "94-7-whatever it's supposed to be" is not. I predict a flip in less than a year. The station rarely has anything worth listening to. No offense to whomever is programming it. 8)
Once again it's all about the bottom line. The only stations that are doing anything local are winning...and will win again. :-*
I tried to be vague on purpose. JACK is clever. "94-7-whatever it's supposed to be" is not. I predict a flip in less than a year. The station rarely has anything worth listening to. No offense to whomever is programming it. 8)
Once again it's all about the bottom line. The only stations that are doing anything local are winning...and will win again. :-*
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