Why Do News and Sports Formats Do So Poorly in LA Ratings?

[hamNcheese]

Why couldnt you say 'Mi Amigo offered me a taco'? Why do you have to use a word (GRINGO) that the american heritdage dictionary and a few others find to be offensive slang against white people?

No love for the white devil huh David?!

For shame.


viva el gringos!

Now excuse me I have to watch the most popular sport in the United States Of America...

Football.

For our Latino Amigos that would be 'Futbol Americano'.

;D

 

[davideduardo]

Why couldnt you say 'Mi Amigo offered me a taco'? Why do you have to use a word (GRINGO) that the american heritdage dictionary and a few others find to be offensive slang against white people?

No love for the white devil huh David?!

Now excuse me I have to watch the most popular sport in the United States Of America...

Football.

For our Latino Amigos that would be 'Futbol Americano'.

My dialog would be that of a restaurant where an American (who is not an "americano" in Spanish) bought some tacos. Nothing about friends. Thus, "vino un gringo a llevarse unos tacos" or, "an American came and bought some carry out tacos." See? the word is very useful.

The most popular sport in the world is NOT American Rule Football, it is soccer. Most people find waiting around for 2 to 3 minutes to see a bunch of grown men jump on each other for a few seconds to be pretty dull. It´s a question of taste, I guess.

By the way, many Hispanics are white... that is why many of such are called "gringo" as a nickname.

I have nothing for or against any race. In any case, Hispanics are of all races, black, white, indigenous and Asian, so the race card can't be played at this table.

 

[hamNcheese]

HamNcheese said:Now excuse me I have to watch the most popular sport in the United States Of America...

Football.

David said: The most popular sport in the world is NOT American Rule Football, it is soccer.

Oh poor David....just wanting to see your own perspective at all times...something is quite wrong with your vision...but that has been obvious thru this whole post.

No love for El Blanco Diablo

 

[zumahans]

D/E rule 1:
I am always right.

D/E rule 2:
If you disagree, you cannot possibly be correct, because I am David Eduardo.

As a native-english speaking anglo, I find gringo deeply offensive when it cast as an aspersion by Spanish speakers. And I don't care what the historic root of it is, David, there is no polite way to use that word in Spanish in my presence.

It is as offensive as the n-word. "W--back" is an awful term with a historical meaning that I also find deeply offensive.

David Eduardo is not an anglo american and cannot possibly be an arbiter of whether gringo is offensive to a yanqui.

 

[zumahans]

Now excuse me I have to watch the most popular sport in the United States Of America...

Football.

For our Latino Amigos that would be 'Futbol Americano'.

The most popular sport in the world is NOT American Rule Football, it is soccer. Most people find waiting around for 2 to 3 minutes to see a bunch of grown men jump on each other for a few seconds to be pretty dull. It´s a question of taste, I guess.

Typical, David. He didn't say the most popular sport in the world is US football. You corrected a mistake that YOU made.

Why can't you ever just shut up and concede a point?

 

[davideduardo]

David said: The most popular sport in the world is NOT American Rule Football, it is soccer.

Oh poor David....just wanting to see your own perspective at all times...something is quite wrong with your vision...but that has been obvious thru this whole post.

No love for El Blanco Diablo
[/quote]

Uh, I guess your ethnocentricity has to be pardoned. A lot of folks are victims of it. Where else bu the USA do we have a sport, baseball, that is only of interest in about 10 other countries yet we hold a World Series yet only the US and Canada participate.

There is a great big world out there. It's a world where they don't like baseball and football, Fords and Chryslers and where there is a decreasing interest in American music and culture, too.

Oh, it would be the "diablo blanco" anyway. But it makes little sense in Spanish as the devil is always red.

 

[davideduardo]

D/E rule 1:
I am always right.

D/E rule 2:
If you disagree, you cannot possibly be correct, because I am David Eduardo.

As a native-english speaking anglo, I find gringo deeply offensive when it cast as an aspersion by Spanish speakers. And I don't care what the historic root of it is, David, there is no polite way to use that word in Spanish in my presence.

It is as offensive as the n-word. "W--back" is an awful term with a historical meaning that I also find deeply offensive.

David Eduardo is not an anglo american and cannot possibly be an arbiter of whether gringo is offensive to a yanqui.

Hahahaha. You always manage to get it totally wrong.

I am Irish / Celt / British in ethnic heritage. My mother's distant relative married a son of Miles Standish. My father's side came to the US during the potato famine in Ireland. I _moved_ to Latin America as an early teen, and have been among Latinos ever since, mostly outside the continental US.

In Ecuador and Puerto Rico, many friends called me "Gringo" as a term of friendship, not as an insult. My best friend in High School (Colegio Americano de Quito) was called "El Gringo" Mantilla because he was fair skiinned and had reddish hair. No offense there, either.

Gringo is simply a descriptor for European / Anglo type whites, or for Americans (since the workd "American" can not be translated). Heck, in Argentina, the Italians are called gringos.

Nice try.

"Yanqui" is always offensive. Yet you use it yourself. Obviously, you got up backwards today.

 

[Tookiebird]

David:

YOU are the bigot. That is a racist comment. One doesn't have to be a racist because they worry about illegals flooding the state.

I know just as many Black, Hispanic, Asian racists as i do whites.

You sir are a cancer that needs to be cut out.

 

[davideduardo]

David:

YOU are the bigot. That is a racist comment. One doesn't have to be a racist because they worry about illegals flooding the state.

I know just as many Black, Hispanic, Asian racists as i do whites.

You sir are a cancer that needs to be cut out.

What, exactly, is bigoted about the word "gringo?" The meaning, among Hispanics, is simply "non-Hispanic white." Arbitron calls that group "other" so it is not unusual for this group to be given a name.

Anecdotaly, when I was in High School in south America, a friend of mine and I did a radio show with the latest US hits and it was called "Gringolandia" or "gringoland." If you asked where kids wanted to go for vacations, they would also say, ">Gringolandia." How offensive is this term if you apply it to something highly desirable?

 

[SuperRadioFan]

Where else but the USA do we have a sport, baseball, that is only of interest in about 10 other countries yet we hold a World Series yet only the US and Canada participate.

There is a great big world out there. It's a world where they don't like baseball and football,

I find this statement to be ignorant, David, BUT I guess you should be given a pass given your apparent dislike for most American (that is U.S.A.) sports. You wouldn't pause to realize that U.S. pro baseball teams are populated plenty with players born OUTSIDE the USA from countries such as the Dominican Republic, Cuba, Venezuela, Mexico, Columbia, Panama, USA territory Puerto Rico, Japan, China, South Korea, and Afghanistan. (just kidding about the last one). Basketball, born and brewed right HERE in the U.S. of A. features players born outside the U.S.A. from France, Germany, Serbia, Bosnia, China, to name a few. US Football, I'll admit, has fewer foreign-born players and that's probably because of the "farm" system employed by football, i.e. US college football players.

David, since it seems you know a lot about every subject, off the top of your head -- can you name a few baseball players (without help from any source or person) from some of the countries I mentioned?? The following are not my words, but a poster named "OffAir" from a while back and maybe many here can still agree with him-- "David has knowledge and experience, but it's too buried in ego and agenda to be worth much. He spews some facts, and then uses them to bolster his opinions on EVERYTHING discussed here."

4 pages of Gringo indeed!

 

[SuperRadioFan]

The most popular sport in the world is NOT American Rule Football, it is soccer. Most people find waiting around for 2 to 3 minutes to see a bunch of grown men jump on each other for a few seconds to be pretty dull. It´s a question of taste, I guess.

LOL !!
And I say most people (in the U.S.) find waiting around for 2 to 3 hours to see a bunch of grown men kick a ball back and forth (and then maybe are lucky to score even ONE goal) to be pretty dull!!! GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!

 

[davideduardo]

And I say most people (in the U.S.) find waiting around for 2 to 3 hours to see a bunch of grown men kick a ball back and forth (and then maybe are lucky to score even ONE goal) to be pretty dull!!! GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!

You see, that is the cultural difference. To a soccer fan, the fact that the play does not stop for two 90 minute halves, plus the fact that there is no padding or protection makes the sport far more action-filled and challenging. It is all probably based on where a person grew up and what sports they played as a kid...

To me, a baseball game is even worse than football. It is more amusing to pick sides and bet on which side has more crotch scratchings vs. the spitting of the other team!

Getting back to the subject, if English sports radio were to talk aobut Mexican soccer, none of the non-Hispanic whites would like it. And as long as they talk about baseball and basketball and football, the "raza" will not listen, even if they know enough English. And that is where you have to analyze successful sports stations, whether it is The Ticket in dallas or WFAN in NY: they are mostly whte male talk stations, not really all sports. If there are very few non-Hispanic white males in LA, the format will never work like other markets.

 

[davideduardo]

I find this statement to be ignorant, David, BUT I guess you should be given a pass given your apparent dislike for most American (that is U.S.A.) sports. You wouldn't pause to realize that U.S. pro baseball teams are populated plenty with players born OUTSIDE the USA from countries such as the Dominican Republic, Cuba, Venezuela, Mexico, Columbia, Panama, USA territory Puerto Rico, Japan, China, South Korea, and Afghanistan. (just kidding about the last one). Basketball, born and brewed right HERE in the U.S. of A. features players born outside the U.S.A. from France, Germany, Serbia, Bosnia, China, to name a few. US Football, I'll admit, has fewer foreign-born players and that's probably because of the "farm" system employed by football, i.e. US college football players.

David, since it seems you know a lot about every subject, off the top of your head -- can you name a few baseball players (without help from any source or person) from some of the countries I mentioned?? The following are not my words, but a poster named "OffAir" from a while back and maybe many here can still agree with him-- "David has knowledge and experience, but it's too buried in ego and agenda to be worth much. He spews some facts, and then uses them to bolster his opinions on EVERYTHING discussed here."

I have always wondered why we have a world series for a game most of the world does not care about, which is why I raised the question.

No, I do not like baseball, football and basketball. I grew up on soccer, and even played on the station team in the 60's. And, by personal anecdote, I am explaining why sports radio underperforms in LA.

Baseball in the Caribbean is not a huge sport. Look at what happened when they took the Canadian team to play in San Juan: less than 6,000 average attendance. Most of these teams are de facto farm clubs and are also wehre players needing more practice can go for winter league play. The Mexican teams are mostly in far northern Mexico, and pretty limited. In other words, to some extent, in places like the Dominican republic, baseball is not a game, but a way out.

But the fact remains that the huge Latin American, Asian and middle eastern population of LA has not much interest in any of the Ameican sports that are not popular, broadly, outside the US. It takes one or two generations of US born descendents for the change to US sports to take place, though. And this is what LA sports stations battle against.

The only baseball players I can name are Hiram Bithorn, the first Puerto Rican to play in major league baseball... for whom a statdium is named in San Juan. And Roberto Clemente, who I met before his untimely death and who was a staunch supporter of youth sports in PR and visited most of the radio staitons promoting his sports complex. I would not know any others are I don't like baseball, and do not follow it. I could not even name the cities with teams. But you could not name the Mexican soccer teams, either. So the question is kind of irrelevant as you are asking about something I don't care about and thus, know nothing about.

The real issue is that LA has a majority population that is not interested in these sports, which are the staple of sports talk radio.

On the other hand, when I was PD of KTNQ, our 5-9 PM sports show often had 4 to 5 share results in 12+ and even higher in 25-54 men. And that show talked about the three major sports: soccer, soccer and soccer.

Sports talk works, just not in English.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

Baseball in the Caribbean is not a huge sport. Look at what happened when they took the Canadian team to play in San Juan: less than 6,000 average attendance.

OK here's your chance, David, for probably the only time ever on this board, to state that you were incorrect about something.

By my calculations, the average "paid" attendance in the 43 games the Montreal Expos played in Hiram Bithorn Stadium was 12,323, more than twice "less than 6,000". The author points out "That includes unused corporate tickets. There were only about two-thirds of that number actually in attendance."
Even so then 2/3s of my figure = 8,207 which is still over 36% more than 6,000.
I appreciate your acknowledgment of little baseball knowledge.



www.puertorico-herald.org/issues/2004/vol8n30/PRNotKindExpos.shtml

San Juan Just No Place for the Expos Experiment; Fails to Create Fans


By SCOTT TAYLOR

July 18, 2004
Copyright © 2004 Winnipeg Free Press, a division of FP Canadian Newspapers Limited Partnership. All rights reserved.

When (or if) the Montreal Expos find a new home this summer, one good thing will come from the team's move to a new home.

There will be no more games in San Juan, Puerto Rico.

Not only did the San Juan games force the team to endure long, gruelling road trips, but the experiment was also a disaster in terms of selling the game to the Latin American crowd. If you can call the crowds at Estadio y Hiram Bithorn "crowds."

[EDIT]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for baseball's showcase being called the World Series its been called that for over a century and I think most people know there's little "World" about it any more than US football has a "Super" Bowl when over half of Super Bowl games were nothing but Super-bores.

The real issue is that LA has a majority population that is not interested in these sports, which are the staple of sports talk radio.

I don't know how you can prove that statement without knowledge of the demographics of attendees and/or season ticket holders and also TV viewers. I'm not talking about radio listening habits.

[EDIT-article truncated because of its unauthorized use of copyrighted material. Please post a URL so that interested readers may pursue the story further. Thanks, Global Moderator]

 

[davideduardo]

OK here's your chance, David, for probably the only time ever on this board, to state that you were incorrect about something.

By my calculations, the average "paid" attendance in the 43 games the Montreal Expos played in Hiram Bithorn Stadium was 12,323, more than twice "less than 6,000". The author points out "That includes unused corporate tickets. There were only about two-thirds of that number actually in attendance."
Even so then 2/3s of my figure = 8,207 which is still over 36% more than 6,000.
I appreciate your acknowledgment of little baseball knowledge.


As for baseball's showcase being called the World Series its been called that for over a century and I think most people know there's little "World" about it any more than US football has a "Super" Bowl when over half of Super Bowl games were nothing but Super-bores.

The real issue is that LA has a majority population that is not interested in these sports, which are the staple of sports talk radio.

I don't know how you can prove that statement without knowledge of the demographics of attendees and/or season ticket holders and also TV viewers. I'm not talking about radio listening habits.

I was told by our radio stations in PR (WKAQ, the only top 20 AM with a sports show) that the attendance for the first couple of games was huge (and I am sure there is a per game attendence chart available), but that the rest ofr the games attracted around 5,000 each. So the average may be higher, but I was told that the bulk of the games had very low attendance. The fact that the average real attendance (butts in seats) was way under 10,000 shows that there is very little support for baseball in this market that is the same size as Miami, where the dismally attended Marlins games averaged around 13,500. What you had was a couple of novelty games with real good attendance, and a bunch more with nearly nobody there.

Sports radio, at its best, is a "guy talk" format. This is why staitons like The Ticket in Dallas do so well... and why the format can be done without any play by play at all. The demos are pretty much the same everywhere, whether Miami or Spokane, so that is not the issue. The issue is whether there is enough of the non-Hispanic white beer drinking crowd in a market to sustain such a format. LA is not one of those markets.

 

[doublecashkgb]

"White Fear"

David, it seems from all your posts you have a political agenda. its all you can discuss, well
fine. Now your attacking a station that appeals to non-Hispanics, well big boy the gloves
are off. Apparently in your dreams the entire LA market will be Hispanic. If the illegals are
ever addressed as they should be (deported) maybe the non-Hispanic stations will have a
more level playing field in Southern California.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

I was told by our radio stations in PR (WKAQ, the only top 20 AM with a sports show) that the attendance for the first couple of games was huge (and I am sure there is a per game attendence chart available), but that the rest ofr the games attracted around 5,000 each. So the average may be higher, but I was told that the bulk of the games had very low attendance. The fact that the average real attendance (butts in seats) was way under 10,000 shows that there is very little support for baseball in this market that is the same size as Miami, where the dismally attended Marlins games averaged around 13,500. What you had was a couple of novelty games with real good attendance, and a bunch more with nearly nobody there.

David, did you misread this statement from the author?--"Last season, all 22 games drew at least 10,000 fans, but this season only eight of 21 drew 10,000."

It must be very hard for you to admit you were in error, no you need to put the blame elsewhere.

I agree with you about Miami, the Marlins are a team destined to move, regardless of their 1997 and 2003 World Series Championships. I guess nothing but 80,000 "white beer drinking" males fill up Dolphins Stadium to watch football games though along with another 80,000 "white beer drinking" males watch the Miami Hurricanes fill up the Orange Bowl.

 

[sdwulfdawg]

Paging Kim Richards, Paging Kim Richards....stat....

 

[davideduardo]

"White Fear"

David, it seems from all your posts you have a political agenda. its all you can discuss, well
fine. Now your attacking a station that appeals to non-Hispanics, well big boy the gloves
are off. Apparently in your dreams the entire LA market will be Hispanic. If the illegals are
ever addressed as they should be (deported) maybe the non-Hispanic stations will have a
more level playing field in Southern California.

"White flight" and "white fear" are terms that hosts on KFI use. The fact is, KFI has used, very sucessfully, the immigration issue to parlay themselves into the top couple of positions in the ratings by dedicating hours and hours of every day to immigrantion issues. The mayor of LA, Antonio Villaraigosa, is referred to as "Villalaraza" and "Villareconquista" to fan the flames.

I think such an aproache is deespicable because they are not discussing issues, but, rather, talking about the perception that Hispanics are dumb, have a separatist agenda, are dirty, are all criminals, etc. Their playbook reads like the "find a scapegoat" tactics of the National Socialists in Germany prior to W.W. II, and that makes me object to the content. I do not object to thier freedom to do it, and I find that they do what they do skillfully with a magnificently produced radio station. But I disagree with the content, just as I disagreed with the content of George Wallace's statements

Since illegals do not fill in Arbitron diaries (were you illegal, would you give your address, name, names of family, income level., etc. to a caller on the phone?) so they do not affect the ratings one way or another. In this instance, you are inaccurate in yur assesment.

Opinions on immigration are a dime a dozen. So here are my $0.0085 cents worth. There is no way to deport 10 to 12 million people. the international incident would dwarf the issues in Lebanon or the Gaza. There would be an enormous disruption in the economy, affecting everyone and probably impacting pensions, retirement funds, and the stock market in general. There will be some kind of amnesty.

At the present growth rate, LA will be 50% Hispanic in about 8 years. That is a reality, not a wish or a desire. Radio stations exist to serve profitable sectors of the audience, and that will mean that there will be more Spanish language stations.

 

[davideduardo]

David, did you misread this statement from the author?--"Last season, all 22 games drew at least 10,000 fans, but this season only eight of 21 drew 10,000."

It must be very hard for you to admit you were in error, no you need to put the blame elsewhere.

I agree with you about Miami, the Marlins are a team destined to move, regardless of their 1997 and 2003 World Series Championships. I guess nothing but 80,000 "white beer drinking" males fill up Dolphins Stadium to watch football games though along with another 80,000 "white beer drinking" males watch the Miami Hurricanes fill up the Orange Bowl.

I was going by the paid admission figures that our station received. If there were an average of 10000 paid admissions, that is not what the local reports said; Puerto Rican venues owned by the government have rather interesting "freee admission" issues tied to local politics.

Supposing the admission, paid, was an average of 10 thousand, which I have no trouble contemplating for this discussion, we are talking about a huge percentage of empty seats in a venue that often sells out for concerts, evangelists and others. In a market of over 4 million, the fact that attendancde was so low indicates a pretty minimal interest in baseball. Compare the attendance with the average over the last few years for the Cleveland Indians, a team in a market only about half the size.

Miami, like NY, has a high percentage of assimilated, second and third generation Hisapnics who do like American sports. The Puerto Rican migration to NY ended in the late 60's, so there are quite a lot of baseball, football and basketball fans in the later generations, as is true with Cuban Americans, who tend to be very assimilated.

Miami is a market that has over 4 million population... it certainly does not surprise me that a good game can fill a stadium. On the other hand, my point is that a) baseball is pretty limited in appeal in Latin America, and, b) American sports in LA have both a high uninterested Hispanic group and a large, uninterested Asian and Middle Eastern group that will produce few followers.

This, the reason why sports radio in LA does not do well in ratings or billing compared to other large US markets.