I have been listening to WKCE out of Knoxville on line. What I do not understand is how could a station that was in a rural area in the 50's, 60's and 70's play fantastic oldies. Most of their playlist outside of the classic country, west coast/garage sound, elvis and ricky and the british invasion cuts, is music that was born and bred in the Philly market. Philly soul, white and black doo wop, teen idols, Frankie, Chubby, Bobby, Fabian, R&B and local Philly standards. The music they play was a staple on every Philly radio years back. Now the billion dollar question, why can''t one, just one local floundering AM, which is most of the dial go this route. How a rural market can play these tunes and the birthplace cannot have one outlet, makes no sense at all....Check them out on line then make your conclusions.
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why not in the birthplace of this music
- Thread starter daddyoo
- Start date
That station is a personal ego project, and is not going to be profitable or well listened to. Some guy has some money and a hobby. No different than collecting rare stamps.
My favorite example is Stevie Wonder, who owns a fun little radio station in LA. If more rich music stars did this, radio would be a much better place. Imagine if Bruce Springsteen and Steve Van Zandt had bought WPLJ or a station in Philly! They could do it with their spare change. There was a time when Buck Owens, Ronnie Milsap, and the Oak Ridge Boys owned radio stations. Not any more.
Garth Brooks, Kenny Chesney, Phish and Pitbull all have their own channels on Sirius XM. They fill them with their favorite artists and tunes, as well as their own music. If they were to do this on FM, they'd have to cut down on the number of their own tracks they play, but the result would be the same -- a station focusing on music that wouldn't get heavy exposure on stations owned by broadcasting companies run by industry professionals rather than artists.
Depends...there are digital rules restricting the number of songs by a featured artist per hour. But yes, Garth, Kenny, and some of the others are personally invested in the music their channels play, and it helps that they're NOT ad-supported stations. They could easily do the same thing on non-commercial FM stations.
Pretty sure every fourth song on Garth's and Kenny's channels is a Garth or Kenny song -- four or five an hour, by my reckoning. Since the stations are bought and paid for, couldn't they legally play 100 percent of their own songs? The Beatles Channel, also legal payola, is at least 80 percent Beatles tracks an hour, the rest split between solo Beatles and covers.
The rules say they can't play more than two by the same artist back to back, and you can't promote that you'll play a certain song in five minutes. That's because everyone records songs off Sirius on their home cassette decks.
The rules are left over from the 90s. And the owners of the music (in Garth's case, that would be Garth) have signed a piece of paper allowing Sirius to play more of their songs in an hour.The rules say they can't play more than two by the same artist back to back, and you can't promote that you'll play a certain song in five minutes. That's because everyone records songs off Sirius on their home cassette decks.
So that's why the Beatles Channel goes Beatles/Beatles/Paul/Beatles/Beatles/Ringo/Beatles/Beatles/Traveling Wilburys/Beatles/cover artist, then. I see. I could swear it plays three or four Beatles tracks in a row at times, though. I'll have to do some extended listening and see whether SXM is trying to get away with something.
It helps that almost all of it is on Capitol.
That is still the dream I have whenever there's a huge lotto jackpot and I pick up a random ticket. Would love to buy a small station somewhere that I could program and not have to worry about ad revenue. (Just enough to keep the lights on, would suffice.)
On the SiriusXM front, I listen to "No Shoes Radio" quite a bit, but am always left wanting more. The rotation isn't as deep as you'd expect, even when looking at the Kenny Chesney cuts they play. I expect to hear his hits and key album cuts, but it's rare that I hear something that's truly a deep cut. Plus, the library doesn't feel like it's been rotated much since they went live. Can't tell you how many times I've heard "Hot In Here" from Nelly, which stands out like a sore thumb.
On the SiriusXM front, I listen to "No Shoes Radio" quite a bit, but am always left wanting more. The rotation isn't as deep as you'd expect, even when looking at the Kenny Chesney cuts they play. I expect to hear his hits and key album cuts, but it's rare that I hear something that's truly a deep cut. Plus, the library doesn't feel like it's been rotated much since they went live. Can't tell you how many times I've heard "Hot In Here" from Nelly, which stands out like a sore thumb.
Keep in mind that there are some songs Kenny himself may not want played for one reason or another.
Something that has not been brought up in this excellent string of comments is the cost of operation. A small rural AM, especially a non-directional one, is much less costly to operate than one in or near a major metro. For example, the price of land alone can dictate more about what format choices you will utilize based on how much potential revenue is available.
A station I worked for upgraded. Their once very rural location was being swallowed up by big box stores and new subdivisions. The station moved about 25 miles further from the big city. They sold the once rural tower site which produced enough revenue to increase power to 25,000 at the new location, the total build out including all new equipment and still left a little pocket change. Even so, the land wasn't cheap and nor was the operation. It was easily 2.5 times what a small town station runs and that was so bare bones it was pathetic.
Many asked me why we didn't do oldies or some other format on that big city AM and hire some once household names to jock it. The truth was the promotional dollars to build awareness of the station, the cost of operation including salespeople to work the slim pickings of mom and pop businesses that did not have an advertising agency running their buys, I could have easily eclipsed $1 million out the door in under a year. It would be impossible to ever bill enough to repay the initial investment. I'd need a good 500 regular advertisers that tended to average a budget of $200 a month to make it without thinking about the 'ramp up costs'. The issue was, even with good promotion, the number of listeners in the trade area of the average single location business was so low that advertisers rarely saw any results and generally never renewed their advertising. I had worked such a situation where the cost to acquire an advertiser was about what that advertiser could spend. In other words, you worked your tail end off to not make any money and the station had to foot the cost of the operation and jocks in addition. At minimum, I'd need about $100,000 a month to break even on a shoestring operation. If I ever could get there monetarily, you can bet there would be a competitor that would steal the format and slice that pie in two. And if that was a big boy, I would be forced to go back to square one, spend another million on some other format and try to make the money back. That's the major market scenario. The best way to survive the major market as an AM standalone is by flying under the radar appearing not to be too successful to call attention from hungry competitors.
Meanwhile, in the small market rural station where land is cheap and your coverage likely not several counties, it is easy to make things work by comparison. First, populations tend to be older. Second, hardly anybody uses ad agencies, so you develop a relationship in person with local business owners. They spend about what the major market mom and pop can afford. Promotion is a breeze since there are very few media outlets and most are eager to cross-promote. I can likely find a few local people to sell on a part time basis to people they may have known all their life. I might need $8,000 to $10,000 a month so 40 or 50 clients at $200 a month can be had if you work on it. Plus you can sell community events and school sports/activities. Almost every business wants to buy graduation salutations for high school grads or buy that Christmas Greeting in December. Literally in a small rural spot each can represent about an average month's billing in extra revenue. Here ads are sold more on relationship and the business buying to demonstrate they are a part of the community.
So, to answer the question how a small rural AM can do it but a major market station, even at the birthplace of the music, likely cannot make it work, it all boils down to cost from land value to building awareness to sales potential.
A station I worked for upgraded. Their once very rural location was being swallowed up by big box stores and new subdivisions. The station moved about 25 miles further from the big city. They sold the once rural tower site which produced enough revenue to increase power to 25,000 at the new location, the total build out including all new equipment and still left a little pocket change. Even so, the land wasn't cheap and nor was the operation. It was easily 2.5 times what a small town station runs and that was so bare bones it was pathetic.
Many asked me why we didn't do oldies or some other format on that big city AM and hire some once household names to jock it. The truth was the promotional dollars to build awareness of the station, the cost of operation including salespeople to work the slim pickings of mom and pop businesses that did not have an advertising agency running their buys, I could have easily eclipsed $1 million out the door in under a year. It would be impossible to ever bill enough to repay the initial investment. I'd need a good 500 regular advertisers that tended to average a budget of $200 a month to make it without thinking about the 'ramp up costs'. The issue was, even with good promotion, the number of listeners in the trade area of the average single location business was so low that advertisers rarely saw any results and generally never renewed their advertising. I had worked such a situation where the cost to acquire an advertiser was about what that advertiser could spend. In other words, you worked your tail end off to not make any money and the station had to foot the cost of the operation and jocks in addition. At minimum, I'd need about $100,000 a month to break even on a shoestring operation. If I ever could get there monetarily, you can bet there would be a competitor that would steal the format and slice that pie in two. And if that was a big boy, I would be forced to go back to square one, spend another million on some other format and try to make the money back. That's the major market scenario. The best way to survive the major market as an AM standalone is by flying under the radar appearing not to be too successful to call attention from hungry competitors.
Meanwhile, in the small market rural station where land is cheap and your coverage likely not several counties, it is easy to make things work by comparison. First, populations tend to be older. Second, hardly anybody uses ad agencies, so you develop a relationship in person with local business owners. They spend about what the major market mom and pop can afford. Promotion is a breeze since there are very few media outlets and most are eager to cross-promote. I can likely find a few local people to sell on a part time basis to people they may have known all their life. I might need $8,000 to $10,000 a month so 40 or 50 clients at $200 a month can be had if you work on it. Plus you can sell community events and school sports/activities. Almost every business wants to buy graduation salutations for high school grads or buy that Christmas Greeting in December. Literally in a small rural spot each can represent about an average month's billing in extra revenue. Here ads are sold more on relationship and the business buying to demonstrate they are a part of the community.
So, to answer the question how a small rural AM can do it but a major market station, even at the birthplace of the music, likely cannot make it work, it all boils down to cost from land value to building awareness to sales potential.
Regarding the once-household names thing, there are those who choose not to go back and relive their past. They've moved on to new things and that's how they prefer to be. Jerry Blavat is not one of those people. But as you point out there's also the money issue. If the owner is running the station as a hobby, it's probably best that everyone else on the team share his attitude. That might mean taking less than major market money to do a shift. The talent may have to take a salary cut. Not everyone may be on board with that. So there are complications and costs.
Update on the Beatles Channel: It's now playing its FOURTH straight Beatles song, "Something," following "All You Need Is Love," "I Will" and "The Night Before." So either SXM has found a way to get around the consecutive songs rule -- special agreement with the remaining Beatles and/or their label? -- or it is indeed getting away with something.
FURTHER UPDATE: Five straight, now playing "I'm Gonna Sit Right Down and Cry (Over You)."
FINAL UPDATE: The streak reached six, with "A Little Help From My Friends" (separated from "Sgt. Pepper," its usual lead-in). George Harrison's "Bangla Desh" brought the string of Fab Four studio recordings to an end. Can you explain this, BigA?
FURTHER UPDATE: Five straight, now playing "I'm Gonna Sit Right Down and Cry (Over You)."
FINAL UPDATE: The streak reached six, with "A Little Help From My Friends" (separated from "Sgt. Pepper," its usual lead-in). George Harrison's "Bangla Desh" brought the string of Fab Four studio recordings to an end. Can you explain this, BigA?
Yes I thought I said in an earlier post (#7) that the licensee of their music, which for the most part is Capitol Records, merely has to sign a consent form.
Here are the rules:
1) No more than 4 tracks by the same featured artist (or from a compilation album) may be transmitted to the same listener within a 3 hour period (and no more than 3 of those tracks may be transmitted consecutively).
2) No more than 3 tracks from the same album may be transmitted to the same listener within a 3 hour period (and no more than 2 of those tracks may be transmitted consecutively).
However, those rules can be ignored if Sirius has received specific waivers from the owner of the sound recording copyright. That would be Capitol Records.
This has become an issue when a musician dies. So when John Prine died, they could not immediately dedicate a channel to playing his music until they received permission from the copyright holder.
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People in rural areas tend to be more willing to drive for things, because they must (at least in a pre-Amazon world...)
One place I worked years ago had a major account (by our standards) with a home improvement warehouse, which didn't have a location for a good 35 miles.
Our local western wear store closed, and we picked up an account with another western store, probably 45 miles away.
Or Chevy/Ford/Chrysler dealers before they consolidated so many of them. We'd get buys from probably 5 GM dealers within a 50 mile radius before they shut down Oldsmobile. Not constant buys, but occasional ones.
If you're a tiny fish in a huge pond, like the AM station b-turner mentioned, you probably won't get any of that.
Yeah me too, except it would need to be a station that reaches wherever i'm living, which is currently in the Philly market. So gonna need alot of money, or maybe go for one of those Jersey shore stations.
I believe SXM had the same issue when Neal Peart of Rush died in January. They apparently had a release from Universal Music Group for Rush's Mercury Records releases from 1974 to 1989, but not from Atlantic Records/Warner Music Group (new albums from 1989 on), so the later material received much less play than the pre-1990 Mercury albums on the month-long Rush tribute channel.
The thing is that even though Sirius obtains a waiver, there is no waiver on the royalties. So they're still paying full rate on every song.
...as they would with any song they play (I get that bill every two years and it keeps going up). But they had to follow the frequency-of-play rules you listed above with regard to Rush's Atlantic material, whereas they had the freedom to play as many Mercury-era tracks in a row as they wished.
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