Will new york get another alt station once it is flipped to news/talk?

[Theater of My Mind]

An HD2 channel is hardly a substitute for a "real" FM radio station. There's almost no money spent on programming or talent, and the audience is miniscule since most people don't even own an HD radio.

That said, I wonder if Randy might put one of his newly-acquired Chicago stations on 101.9 HD2 here in New York, especially if he keeps one of them as a rock station.

 

[Brooklyndon]

Brooklyndon, have you listened to K-Rock2 at all recently?  Nickelback is not a part of the playlist.  Yes, the stream as it's currently programmed is relevant to Alternative music and the radio format as it's broadcast across the nation.  Artists like Florence + The Machine, The Kaiser Chiefs, Mumford & Sons, The Boxer Rebellion and The Arcade Fire are played often on K-Rock2 alongside format staples like Bush, The Foo Fighters and Nirvana, and they also do go into the harder-edged side of things with artists like Three Days Grace and Shinedown -- which are also getting airplay on Alternative FM stations.  KTBZ/Houston, which is one of the highest-rated Alt stations in the country, has both Shinedown and Three Days Grace in their top 20 right now.

I actually like K-Rock2's music selection.  But I do think the jocks are horrible.

I confuse Puddle of Mudd with Nickelback...forgive me.  They are both part of that forgetable class of '00 that still have never seemede to go away.  You tell me they are big in Houston.  But so is country music...you can add Rise Against and Paramoure to that list of shotty bands K-Rock never played before but decided to start playing about 3 months after Danny left.

In terms of the real alt bands listed, yeah they always played them (Replace Florence in the Machine with Phoenix, Boxer Rebellion with Kings of Leon, and Mumford and Sons with Ryan Adams), but their choice in Gold was better.  Bush?  come on.  You will never ever hear Bush in any non-frat young people's bar anywhere...you might hear some Nirvana, some Versus Pearl Jam, some Siamese Dream SP, maybe; you'll defitely here New Order, the Smiths, and possibly the Cure or Depeche Mode among other 80s alt notables.  You might even here some RHCP and Foo Fighters (in a New Jersey or Nassau COunty anyway)

The real difference was back in 07 and 08 K-Rock avoided the dinosaur alt and it sounded relevant, after Danny went, they added the dinosaur alt back ,and it began to sound mor like the K-Rock that failed in both 07 and 09.  It currently now has absolutely no cogent sound.  Its trash.

And the suits at CBS don,t seem to realize that the stream is just one channel in a multi-channel offering that is accessible anywhere. The future of radio is not hd, its streaming. The suits should realize this immediately and start to build their differentiated brands now, because if I want to listen to Houston alt, then guess what, I'm going to listen to the Houston stream.

 

[altexpert]

I will miss RXP, faults and all. But time and again we have discussed its faults, picked picked picked at it like an itchy scab. We all know better than them about what would have worked right? But we have no power to do it and even if we did, we would have been picked apart as well. So all you people sitting there complaining about the sorry state of alt radio should do something about it. I am.

If you have the ability and patience to listen to online radio, I would suggest a few that I am involved with. The first is XX Radio which is the reborn 100.7 WXXP Pittsburgh, sister station of the original 92.7 WLIR Garden City. Archived original broadcasts every weekend, classic alternative during the week mixed with new songs from those same classic artists, daily. And EAR.FM, 20,000 songs, the complete history of alt. rock on one station. Webcasting for ten years and now in the midst of being redesigned but listenable none the less. Both are available on Live365.com. Both have Facebook pages for requests and feedback. Now go have a listen and stop your sobbing about RXP.

 

[canwego]

The original poster indicates he does not like it, but did not offer any reason.

I don't like it because Shinedown and Nickleback are not alternative. Not even a little bit.

Do you think the K-Rock2 stream, as it is currently programmed, is anything near relevant to alternative music?
Was it relevant to alternative music back in 2008?

The jocks are awful. Be local is good for the 2 hours a week it on.

The stream is waste. I hope they learn from their successes and their failures and undo the damage of 2010 and 2011.

The K Rock stream is very relevant to alternative music. Maybe some of you need to brush up on your alt music knowledge...

It's also silly to compare the jocks on K Rock to paid, full time air staff on other stations. They are certainly not paid.
Chances are that there will not be another alternative rock station in New York because it has been proven time and time again that this format is not lucrative. It is also very naive to think that it's "about the music". It isn't and it hasn't been for a while.

I usually imagine that the people commenting on these threads are radio professionals who (kind of) know what their talking about. I now realize, after reading post after post of people insisting THEY could make an alternative format work, that that's clearly not the case.

 

[RockTheGlobe]

I confuse Puddle of Mudd with Nickelback...forgive me. They are both part of that forgetable class of '00 that still have never seemede to go away. You tell me they are big in Houston. But so is country music...you can add Rise Against and Paramoure to that list of shotty bands K-Rock never played before but decided to start playing about 3 months after Danny left.

In terms of the real alt bands listed, yeah they always played them (Replace Florence in the Machine with Phoenix, Boxer Rebellion with Kings of Leon, and Mumford and Sons with Ryan Adams), but their choice in Gold was better. Bush? come on. You will never ever hear Bush in any non-frat young people's bar anywhere...you might hear some Nirvana, some Versus Pearl Jam, some Siamese Dream SP, maybe; you'll defitely here New Order, the Smiths, and possibly the Cure or Depeche Mode among other 80s alt notables. You might even here some RHCP and Foo Fighters (in a New Jersey or Nassau COunty anyway)

The real difference was back in 07 and 08 K-Rock avoided the dinosaur alt and it sounded relevant, after Danny went, they added the dinosaur alt back ,and it began to sound mor like the K-Rock that failed in both 07 and 09. It currently now has absolutely no cogent sound. Its trash.

And the suits at CBS don,t seem to realize that the stream is just one channel in a multi-channel offering that is accessible anywhere. The future of radio is not hd, its streaming. The suits should realize this immediately and start to build their differentiated brands now, because if I want to listen to Houston alt, then guess what, I'm going to listen to the Houston stream.

K-Rock2 is not playing Puddle of Mudd either. Your response leads me to believe that you haven't been listening to K-Rock2 much over the past year or so -- or Alternative Radio at all... or been to any "non-frat young people's bar" recently either, as Bush is popular with the kids as well and is a staple on Alt radio, as are RHCP and Foo Fighters (as opposed to the fact that "you might even here [sic]" them as you declared). Most of the artists you named are Alt radio staples and are heard daily (if not hourly on some stations), and if K-Rock2 isn't playing them as frequently as you like, it's because I've found the station actually leans a bit more current and is aged younger than many Alt stations in the format. But from what I hear, K-Rock2 is very relevant to Alt radio.

I find it interesting that you keep complaining about the "dinosaur alt" being on K-Rock2 and then bring up artists like New Order and Depeche Mode, which are actually some of the oldest core artists of the format. If anything, I would qualify those as "dinosaur alt" since a good number of their hits came from the mid-'80s, while the other core artists you mentioned (Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Chili Peppers, Foo Fighters, etc.) are '90s and later.

Radio's not local anymore. The days of a major broadcast company's station sounding unique and unlike any of its counterparts is long gone. So I don't know what you expect out of K-Rock2 as a mainstream Alt station other than what it's doing now, especially when you compare it to the current Alt radio chart.

It's also silly to compare the jocks on K Rock to paid, full time air staff on other stations. They are certainly not paid.

I understand that (and I think I even said in a post in another thread that it sounded like CBS just put out a memo in-house asking who wanted to be on the radio and simply threw on whoever responded)... but for a company that seems to be making a concerted effort to push HD Radio (or Internet radio, however you want to look at K-Rock2) and spend the time and effort and money to keep K-Rock2 going, they should put in the additional effort to make all elements of it sound professional -- including the jocks. They couldn't get airstaff from other stations to voicetrack a few breaks an hour?

 

[mjb1124]

Earlier this year, I was listening to K-Rock's stream somewhat frequently, and thinking the mix was mostly good, but cringing whenever I heard "Spaceship" by Puddle of Mudd. Maybe they've dropped PoM now, but they certainly were in the rotation a few months ago. By the way, I think they've also always had Rise Against in the rotation, and I don't have a problem with that. I don't mind Bush in moderation, either. All in all, the mix did seem improved from the previous times I listened (and brought some pleasant surprises in the gold library), but was still a bit too broad.

As for the jocks, I wouldn't mind them so much if they weren't trying so hard to be "shock jocks". I'm cool with them giving some up-and-comers the chance to be on the air, but whenever they try to be "edgy" it just makes me cringe. It takes a certain amount of comic timing to pull that off, plus it seems more in line with what K-Rock was on the main 92.3 signal than what it is now on HD2.

 

[canwego]

I understand that (and I think I even said in a post in another thread that it sounded like CBS just put out a memo in-house asking who wanted to be on the radio and simply threw on whoever responded)... but for a company that seems to be making a concerted effort to push HD Radio (or Internet radio, however you want to look at K-Rock2) and spend the time and effort and money to keep K-Rock2 going, they should put in the additional effort to make all elements of it sound professional -- including the jocks. They couldn't get airstaff from other stations to voicetrack a few breaks an hour?

Having air staff from other stations voice track is easier said than done. No one wants to do more work than they're paid to do.

 

[CTListener]

Unfortunately commercial FM radio is no longer a place for active music fans or new music discovery.

Actually, in other formats, commercial FM is a great place for new music discovery. Country, Urban, and pop formats are driven by a high percentage of new music and new artists. But rock has really splintered into a format that really has no center any more. Just a lot of edges and fringes. This is the fault of the music itself, not radio.

Hence the 19 flavors of rock on Sirius XM. Ridiculous.

 

[Brooklyndon]

K-Rock2 is not playing Puddle of Mudd either.  Your response leads me to believe that you haven't been listening to K-Rock2 much over the past year or so -- or Alternative Radio at all...  or been to any "non-frat young people's bar" recently either, as Bush is popular with the kids as well and is a staple on Alt radio, as are RHCP and Foo Fighters (as opposed to the fact that "you might even here [sic]" them as you declared).  Most of the artists you named are Alt radio staples and are heard daily (if not hourly on some stations), and if K-Rock2 isn't playing them as frequently as you like, it's because I've found the station actually leans a bit more current and is aged younger than many Alt stations in the format.  But from what I hear, K-Rock2 is very relevant to Alt radio.

I find it interesting that you keep complaining about the "dinosaur alt" being on K-Rock2 and then bring up artists like New Order and Depeche Mode, which are actually some of the oldest core artists of the format.  If anything, I would qualify those as "dinosaur alt" since a good number of their hits came from the mid-'80s, while the other core artists you mentioned (Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Chili Peppers, Foo Fighters, etc.) are '90s and later. 

Radio's not local anymore.  The days of a major broadcast company's station sounding unique and unlike any of its counterparts is long gone.  So I don't know what you expect out of K-Rock2 as a mainstream Alt station other than what it's doing now, especially when you compare it to the current Alt radio chart. 

It's also silly to compare the jocks on K Rock to paid, full time air staff on other stations. They are certainly not paid. 

I understand that (and I think I even said in a post in another thread that it sounded like CBS just put out a memo in-house asking who wanted to be on the radio and simply threw on whoever responded)...  but for a company that seems to be making a concerted effort to push HD Radio (or Internet radio, however you want to look at K-Rock2) and spend the time and effort and money to keep K-Rock2 going, they should put in the additional effort to make all elements of it sound professional -- including the jocks.  They couldn't get airstaff from other stations to voicetrack a few breaks an hour?

1. K-Rock is still playing "Spaceship".  Bush, to put it in terms a Boomer might understand = the 90's equivalent of Foreigner = irrelevant = (and not popular with the kids, as you claim, because most "kids" today were just being born when sixteen stone was realesed and are too young to rememebr it.  Bush was a hugely forgetable band you will never hear Bush on abartentders iPod anywhere in the lower east side or the village because Bush never was relevant, just successful [like Kansas]).
2. If you must play gold, then play gold the "kids" actually hear in the bars.  (see comment above about bartender's iPods in bars on lower east side, Brooklyn, Astoria, Hoboken, Rockville Center...wherever anyone has spent at least a semester in college)
3. Correction: radio isn't radio anymore.  Its a datastream accessable by your 4g smartphone anywhere and everywhere.  So why pay for 20 shotty alt stations in each city when you could pay for 1 pure alt stream, 1 pure hardrock stream, and 1 pure buttrock stream globally?  Oh And by the way, the medium support visual media and pay-per-click to boot. 
Point #3 is what the shareholders think, and it high time they install some executives over at CBS who see the technological wrting on the wall.  CBSs paid $300,000,000 for last.fm and they have yet to pay that invenstment down.  They got some good technology out of it, and CBS always had great alt programming talent.  Its a pity they are squandering their competitive advantage and signalling to the capital markets they cannot be trusted to execute.

 

[Brooklyndon]

Brooklyndon, have you listened to K-Rock2 at all recently?

No. Can't say that I find it listenable.

 

[RockTheGlobe]

Brooklyndon, have you listened to K-Rock2 at all recently?

No. Can't say that I find it listenable.

So... you're arguing about something of which you have no knowledge. (Which is additionally evidenced by your wild claims that Bush is irrelevant and isn't popular with the kids, since pretty much every Alt station in the country plays them as a core format artist.) Okay, well, I can see that trying to further my argument with you is pointless then.

To the general public who's willing to actually sample K-Rock2 and listen to the current state of Alternative radio, I say that I enjoyed the music mix and hope someone programs it well, but that the airstaff needs to be replaced.

Having air staff from other stations voice track is easier said than done. No one wants to do more work than they're paid to do.

I understand that, but if CBS was willing to invest time and effort into putting up the stream and programming it, you'd think they'd want to make all the elements the best they can and not skimp on the talent, so they'd build it into someone's contract or they'd offer to pay someone a little extra to voicetrack. Otherwise, it'd be like building a solid car but using folding chairs from the break room instead of putting in seats.

 

[canwego]

I understand that, but if CBS was willing to invest time and effort into putting up the stream and programming it, you'd think they'd want to make all the elements the best they can and not skimp on the talent, so they'd build it into someone's contract or they'd offer to pay someone a little extra to voicetrack. Otherwise, it'd be like building a solid car but using folding chairs from the break room instead of putting in seats.

I'm assuming you've never worked for CBS (or at least, not recently). That may seem like a logical approach. I completely agree with you. However, that's just not how things work over there. They could care less about that stream and wouldn't even dream of putting any money into it.

 

[Brooklyndon]

Brooklyndon, have you listened to K-Rock2 at all recently? 

No.  Can't say that I find it listenable.

So...  you're arguing about something of which you have no knowledge.  (Which is additionally evidenced by your wild claims that Bush is irrelevant and isn't popular with the kids, since pretty much every Alt station in the country plays them as a core format artist.)  Okay, well, I can see that trying to further my argument with you is pointless then. 

Well it reads like every 6 weeks or so I'll make myself throw the stream on and listen for a few hours.  So yes, I have knowledge, but now I would not call myself a K-Rock listener (and neither would very many else).


Let me ask you if Bush, and all the artist "other alternative stations play" was so relevant, then how come the incarnation of K-Rock playing Bush as a core artist and that music went of the air...twice...and "alternative" stations playing Bush as core artist pretty much died off completely on the east coast?

I'll tell you why...its because no one like that kind of music. It is irrelevant.

 

[RockTheGlobe]

Well it reads like every 6 weeks or so I'll make myself throw the stream on and listen for a few hours. So yes, I have knowledge, but now I would not call myself a K-Rock listener (and neither would very many else).

Let me ask you if Bush, and all the artist "other alternative stations play" was so relevant, then how come the incarnation of K-Rock playing that music went of the air...twice...and alternative pretty much died off completely on the east coast?

So you're basing your entire judgment of something on a few hours of exposure every month and a half or so? That's like having an appetizer and then judging an entire restaurant's lifetime performance based on it.

Now you're changing your argument. First you were saying that K-Rock2 was not relevant to Alternative music, now you're claiming that Alternative music just isn't relevant period. Which point are you going to make? Can't have it both ways. Not that I really care... you've demonstrated an alarming lack of knowledge about current Alt radio programming, so it's kind of pointless for me to keep wasting my time arguing with you about this.

 

[hotpatrick2004]

I think sandiego has some good alt radio I really like 91x and 94.9 and cd101 n columbus but they took the stream down much to my dismay and wtf was clear channel thinking when they totally ruined 92.3 in sanjose that is a tragesty!!!

There still are well programmed alt stations out there on terrestrial radio we just have to find them

 

[Brooklyndon]

So you're basing your entire judgment of something on a few hours of exposure every month and a half or so? That's like having an appetizer and then judging an entire restaurant's lifetime performance based on it.

Now you're changing your argument. First you were saying that K-Rock2 was not relevant to Alternative music, now you're claiming that Alternative music just isn't relevant period. Which point are you going to make? Can't have it both ways. Not that I really care... you've demonstrated an alarming lack of knowledge about current Alt radio programming, so it's kind of pointless for me to keep wasting my time arguing with you about this.

#1. A few hours every six weeks is enough to comment. There was a time when I would listen to K-Rock for hours and hours, day after day. That is when Danny was the MD. K-Rock played new music and avoided the hard-rock tracks that have been the death knell for every alternative station east of the mississippi.

#2a. Who cares what you think about my "knowledge of Alt radio programming". I know all the bands, as evidenced by my earlier posts, but I don't read the billboard to 100 modern rock tracks every week because only total sheep and conformist tools who are not, in fact, "Alternative" but rather very mainstream let some other beacon of cool lead the way for them. And perhaps I am one of those conformist tools, but then again, my job isn't to go out there and discover new music to bring to the masses; presumably, whoever is the MD at K-Rock has that job, is also a conformist tool....which is why the stream is unlistenable.

#2b. Furthermore, aybe your view of Alternative is too myopic. "Alternative" is not a bunch of bands from '94. Alterntive encompases Indie, Alterntive, New Wave, and Punk. Heck, when Nirvana first came out it caled itself a New Wave band. If your entiire "alternative" strategy is fo what was coool in '96 then your screwed because '96 was 15 years ago.

#2c. So some


#3. You still have not address the issue that CBS's current city-by-city strategy is destroying shareholder value

 

[TheBigA]

#3. You still have not address the issue that CBS's current city-by-city strategy is destroying shareholder value

You're ignoring the fact that CBS has created Radio.com, where all of its owned and operated stations stream coast to coast. They also provide the radio content for Yahoo. Up until recently, CBS Radio also streamed on AOL. The point is that CBS is not a city-by-city approach, like Citadel or Cumulus. It's a more integrated system like Clear Channel's IHeartRadio.

Last.com is designed mainly to compete with Pandora, not act as a streaming channel for the O&O radio stations. That's for Radio.com.

 

[Brooklyndon]

#3. You still have not address the issue that CBS's current city-by-city strategy is destroying shareholder value

You're ignoring the fact that CBS has created Radio.com, where all of its owned and operated stations stream coast to coast. They also provide the radio content for Yahoo. Up until recently, CBS Radio also streamed on AOL. The point is that CBS is not a city-by-city approach, like Citadel or Cumulus. It's a more integrated system like Clear Channel's IHeartRadio.

Last.com is designed mainly to compete with Pandora, not act as a streaming channel for the O&O radio stations. That's for Radio.com.

CBS has a gllobal platform but they are still running the operation on a city-by -city basis. Hence the bloated staff rolls and redundancy in playlists. They could save $15,000,000 a year easy by simulcasting the stame stream nationally on their terrestrial outlets.

 

[Brooklyndon]

#3. You still have not address the issue that CBS's current city-by-city strategy is destroying shareholder value

You're ignoring the fact that CBS has created Radio.com, where all of its owned and operated stations stream coast to coast. They also provide the radio content for Yahoo. Up until recently, CBS Radio also streamed on AOL. The point is that CBS is not a city-by-city approach, like Citadel or Cumulus. It's a more integrated system like Clear Channel's IHeartRadio.

Last.com is designed mainly to compete with Pandora, not act as a streaming channel for the O&O radio stations. That's for Radio.com.

CBS has a gllobal platform but they are still running the operation on a city-by -city basis. Hence the bloated staff rolls and redundancy in playlists. They could save $15,000,000 a year easy by simulcasting the stame stream nationally on their terrestrial outlets.

And, they could sfinally throw me a bone and have a proper alternative station free of hard and but rock because they could have just a terrestrial rock stream, and three online streams, programmed by the same people, that cater to the unique audiences that every agrees modern rock has shattered into.

 

[TheBigA]

CBS has a gllobal platform but they are still running the operation on a city-by -city basis. Hence the bloated staff rolls and redundancy in playlists. They could save $15,000,000 a year easy by simulcasting the stame stream nationally on their terrestrial outlets.

CBS Radio is making money, so they see no need to cut costs. If you actually study their playlists, or their formatic offerings city to city, you'll see major differences. Of all the radio groups, CBS appears to be the healthiest, and if you ask CBS stockholders, they are pretty happy.