WJKL 94.3 FM applies to move to...Oakbrook Terrace

[sebenste]

Right by the Oak Brook shopping mall. Hmmm, what tower is that?

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=FM1245341.html

If they get that, they'll hit much of metro Chicago. They do have to drop their power by nearly half because of the height increase, and to avoid interference with 94.3 in northwest Indiana.

 

[KlunkLetter]

94.3 in northwest Indiana would be WZOC out of South Bend.

 

[Link]

Seems like they are going to put it on the Roof of the big building in Oak Brook Terrace. WLEY has a backup antenna there also I think. This is the big momma of an upgrade. Congrats to EMF. I can't wait to see what the coverage is like.

 

[radiotower40]

I believe LINK is right, this looks like the same location that WLEY uses for their backup. This upgrade, if approved will definitely
improve WJKL's coverage in the Chicago metro.

 

[avtosalon]

The coverage are circle is moved to the south and east of the present circle, however it does not appear to be any larger than the present one.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=FM1186457.html

I consider this a move--not an upgrade. Some areas of in North and Northwest suburbs (Lake and McHenry counties) who currently can hear WJKL, may not be able to receive the station if the FCC approves the move.

The FCC decided to put this frequency in Elgin (now Glendale Heights) for a reason. By moving the tower alot closer to Chicago, this could cause interference to both 93.9 and 94.7.

Futhermore, K-Love's format appeals to suburbanites more than people in the city. IMO they should keep the tower exactly where it is.

 

[PhilJSmith67]

The new coverage area would include 4 or 5 times the population of their existing coverage area. "If a tree falls in a crowded city instead of the forest..."

As for interference to 94.7 and 93.9, it's just not an issue with most modern receivers. There is a two-watt station on 100.7 from the Sears Tower that doesn't seem to have significant interference problems from 100.3 or 101.1, even though those stations 5,700 watts each.

I think this is a highly intelligent move, even if the station was required to reduce power to protect Oldies 94-3 out of Plymouth/South Bend.

 

[Link]

Not only highly intelligent, but if EMF sells it(not likely) for more money because of the upgrade, the old owners get a piece of the increase in price. Its the best signal upgrade I've ever seen. Our friends at Uni should have done the same thing to 93.5. (also a grandfathered station)

 

[amfmhdst]

Is it possible for a non-commercial station to become a commercial station? Has it ever been done or is it an impossibility?

 

[War Of Attrition]

Is it possible for a non-commercial station to become a commercial station? Has it ever been done or is it an impossibility?

Sure, it is just a matter of filing some paperwork with the FCC. It was done a few years ago in San Francisco on 106.9.

 

[Charlie Gee]

The only caveat is that the station must be between 92.1 and 107.9 mHz (i.e., The commercial segment of the FM band).

 

[War Of Attrition]

The only caveat is that the station must be between 92.1 and 107.9 mHz (i.e., The commercial segment of the FM band).

Of coarse. Thank you for adding that clarification.

 

[avtosalon]

There is a two-watt station on 100.7 from the Sears Tower that doesn't seem to have significant interference problems from 100.3 or 101.1

A totally irrelevant comparison because your example is only 2 watts, but the station we are talking about has applied for 3,500 watts. That's 1,750 times higher!

If 94.3 would not cause any interference to 93.9 and 94.7 as you claim, why is the station not transmitting from downtown presently?

You have ignored the fact that Lake and McHenry County are completely gone from the new coverage map. Lake County is the third most populated county in the state, so EMF can forget about receiving any donations from these areas if this move happens, assuming the circle on the map is accurate.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=FM1245341.html

Two other EMF nearby stations, 88.3 WCLR Arlington Heights (Air 1) and 105.3 WFZH Mukwonago, Wisconsin (K-Love) also do not reach Lake County. I also learned that they have a 10 watt translator at 96.7 in Park Ridge and a 5 watt translator at 94.3 in Joliet which do not go out very far.

The city of Chicago is a not a good demographic for the K-Love format. The city is very diverse, with many African Americans, Hispanics, Catholics, and other ethic groups that are not typical K-Love listeners, who are Protestant. Do you remember how poor the ratings were for 'The Fish'? Which is why that station is no longer here.

WJKL would be better off right where they are at now. Another thing, presently they have 6,000 watts, but the wattage on the appliaction is reduced to 3,500 watts.

A highly un-intelligent move if you ask me, but I suspect the FCC might approve this because other suburban frequencies (96.7, 99.9, and 107.9) were allowed to move closer in.

 

[PhilJSmith67]

You have ignored the fact that Lake and McHenry County are completely gone from the new coverage map. Lake County is the third most populated county in the state, so EMF can forget about receiving any donations from these areas if this move happens, assuming the circle on the map is accurate.

Who cares? So, this station should ignore most of Cook, which has approximately 8 times the population of Lake County? That just doesn't make business sense. They can keep DuPage in the bag, too, which just so happens to be the second most populated county.

Two other EMF nearby stations, 88.3 WCLR Arlington Heights (Air 1) and 105.3 WFZH Mukwonago, Wisconsin (K-Love) also do not reach Lake County. I also learned that they have a 10 watt translator at 96.7 in Park Ridge and a 5 watt translator at 94.3 in Joliet which do not go out very far.

There is nothing stopping EMF from applying for more translators in Lake or McHenry Counties, if they feel that strongly about filling that area.

The city of Chicago is a not a good demographic for the K-Love format. The city is very diverse, with many African Americans, Hispanics, Catholics, and other ethic groups that are not typical K-Love listeners, who are Protestant. Do you remember how poor the ratings were for 'The Fish'? Which is why that station is no longer here.

Several problems here. 1) Chicago does not equal Cook County 2) Cook County has over 8 times the population of Lake County -- Even with a highly skewed demographic, Cook still trumps Lake 3) The whole point is moot, because according to the existing 60dBu contour for WJKL, only the SW corner of Lake County is being served anyway 4) You lost me as soon as you mentioned The Fish. 106.7 The Fish totally covered Lake and McHenry, even part of Kenosha and Walworth! And yet, the station disappeared. If Lake is such a perfect target demo, why didn't it save The Fish? Hmmm... Perhaps Salem had completely different plans for 106.7 than EMF does for 94.3?

Contour for 106.7 The Fish: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=FM287983.html

There is a two-watt station on 100.7 from the Sears Tower that doesn't seem to have significant interference problems from 100.3 or 101.1

A totally irrelevant comparison because your example is only 2 watts, but the station we are talking about has applied for 3,500 watts. That's 1,750 times higher!

If 94.3 would not cause any interference to 93.9 and 94.7 as you claim, why is the station not transmitting from downtown presently?

In reverse, yes, an irrelevant comparison. But, the interference to 100.7 is minimal, even with HD Radio sidebands from 100.3 and 101.1 alongside it. It's an extreme but completely relevant comparison. For another comparison, try 107.9 WLEY-FM on for size. WLEY-FM has 21kW from a reasonably tall stick. It's coverage area thoroughly overlaps WGCI, but these two stations don't cause each other significant problems.

WJKL would be better off right where they are at now. Another thing, presently they have 6,000 watts, but the wattage on the appliaction is reduced to 3,500 watts.

You are ignoring HAAT. 3500 watts is not a downgrade when you raise the antenna from 328 to 440 feet.

Concerning the old vs. new coverage areas, the population density within the new contour is much greater. See all that white area within the left half of the existing 60dBu contour? Over 1/3 of the existing coverage area is cows and cornstalks.

Existing contour: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=FM1186457.html


Now take a look at all the dense yellow in the new contour. Not much John Deere Green in that circle.

Application contour: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=FM1245341.html

A highly un-intelligent move if you ask me, but I suspect the FCC might approve this because other suburban frequencies (96.7, 99.9, and 107.9) were allowed to move closer in.

A highly un-intelligent move? Well, if your listeners are bovine in nature, then yes. But, from a business perspective, it's a phenomenally intelligent decision that is being allowed all too often by the FCC.

 

[Countrykev]

Well said, Philip.

For the record, 99.9 WRZA's transmitter has never moved closer to the city. They changed COL to Park Forest only to be included in the Chicago Metro, but the signal coverage hasn't changed since the old WBUS days.

Also, I absolutely do not understand the logic of not moving a signal to cover a larger population. When you're talking a significant population like Cook County, even having a small fraction of an already significantly splintered audience will be a sizeable increase in audience. More importantly, it's not about who you're getting it's the opportunity of who you CAN get.

This looks like an excellent upgrade if it gets approved. I knew as soon as WJKL changed COL something like this wouldn't be far behind.

 

[avtosalon]

I do not consider this an upgrade when a radio listener can receive a station one day, but the signal is GONE on the following day. In fact it's a DOWNGRADE. I consider this a phenominally un-intelligent decision.

Who cares? So, this station should ignore most of Cook, which has approximately 8 times the population of Lake County?

I do. I'm in Lake County. The station already covers a large portion of Cook County with the present signal, but you make it sound like they don't cover any of Cook now.

They can keep DuPage in the bag, too, which just so happens to be the second most populated county.

Totally irrelevant because DuPage is not effected by this move.

because according to the existing 60dBu contour for WJKL, only the SW corner of Lake County is being served anyway

The map is wrong. The signal presently goes out alot farther than the map indicates. I can hear the station througout Lake County, the north shore of Cook County, and in parts of Chicago. Hopefully the proposed new map is also wrong.

You lost me as soon as you mentioned The Fish. 106.7 The Fish totally covered Lake and McHenry, even part of Kenosha and Walworth! And yet, the station disappeared. If Lake is such a perfect target demo, why didn't it save The Fish?

I never said that it didn't cover those areas. It also covered the entire city of Chicago (excluding downtown). My point was to show how poor a Christian Contemporary format does in the ratings. You can blame the demographics of the entire metropolitan area, but especially the city of Chicago for the reasons that I already mentioned. Christian Contemporary does great in places like Dallas, Atlanta, or Nashville, but not in a ethnically diverse metro area like Chicago. I know that EMF does not care about ratings--they care about donations, but they can expect alot more donations from the suburbs because that's where most of the listeners are, especially the DuPage 'bible belt'.

You are ignoring HAAT. 3500 watts is not a downgrade when you raise the antenna from 328 to 440 feet.

I said it was a reduction in wattage. Personally, I would rather hear station with more watts from a low tower than a station with less watts on a high tower. Taller is not always better. Have you ever driven through Milwaukee or Indianapolis, and noticed how much louder/better/clearer their full power, Class B, FM's sound than Chicago's? The reason is that they are pumping out 50,000 watts ERP. But when you drive around Chicago's suburbs, and try to listen to a downtown staion broadcasting with just 5,700 watts, you hear static and signal fade.

A highly un-intelligent move? Well, if your listeners are bovine in nature, then yes.

I am refering to the listeners (actual humans) that can hear the station now, but may not after this move.

For the record, 99.9 WRZA's transmitter has never moved closer to the city.

kev, Please forgive me. Actually I knew that. I should have included 93.5 from Joliet.

 

[PhilJSmith67]

Well said, Philip.

For the record, 99.9 WRZA's transmitter has never moved closer to the city. They changed COL to Park Forest only to be included in the Chicago Metro, but the signal coverage hasn't changed since the old WBUS days.

Also, I absolutely do not understand the logic of not moving a signal to cover a larger population. When you're talking a significant population like Cook County, even having a small fraction of an already significantly splintered audience will be a sizeable increase in audience. More importantly, it's not about who you're getting it's the opportunity of who you CAN get.

This looks like an excellent upgrade if it gets approved. I knew as soon as WJKL changed COL something like this wouldn't be far behind.

Actually 99.9 did move closer to the city, but it was back in the late 1970s. WBYG used to transmit from a very short stick in the Bourbonnais/Kankakee area and didn't even cover all of Kankakee County. After constructing a 500' tower near Peotone, they were able to reach all of Will and well into Cook County. The COL remained Kankakee until Entravision changed it less than a decade ago.

 

[PhilJSmith67]

I do not consider this an upgrade when a radio listener can receive a station one day, but the signal is GONE on the following day. In fact it's a DOWNGRADE. I consider this a phenominally un-intelligent decision.

No. What you mean to say is that this decision is phenomenally inconvenient for you, personally. Regardless, it is not a downgrade.

I do. I'm in Lake County. The station already covers a large portion of Cook County with the present signal, but you make it sound like they don't cover any of Cook now.

You're looking at this purely from your own personal point of view. But, even so, take a better look at the new coverage area. It doesn't evade Lake County much more than the existing signal. Will DeKalb lose the station? Perhaps. But, facts are facts... The white areas on that map have fewer people and much more corn. And, after a move-in, the adjacent channels 94.5 and 94.1 may become eligible for full-service FM or FM-translator stations in the DeKalb or Rockford areas.

because according to the existing 60dBu contour for WJKL, only the SW corner of Lake County is being served anyway

The map is wrong. The signal presently goes out alot farther than the map indicates. I can hear the station througout Lake County, the north shore of Cook County, and in parts of Chicago. Hopefully the proposed new map is also wrong.

The map is dead on. Signals don't halt when they reach the 60dBu contour. Likewise, if you pay closer attention to the new map, you'll see that the 60dBu line borders the entire Lake/Cook line. Much of Lake County will be in the 50-60dBu range. I would venture to say that the signal may even be better in eastern Lake County than it is today.

You lost me as soon as you mentioned The Fish. 106.7 The Fish totally covered Lake and McHenry, even part of Kenosha and Walworth! And yet, the station disappeared. If Lake is such a perfect target demo, why didn't it save The Fish?

I never said that it didn't cover those areas. It also covered the entire city of Chicago (excluding downtown). My point was to show how poor a Christian Contemporary format does in the ratings. You can blame the demographics of the entire metropolitan area, but especially the city of Chicago for the reasons that I already mentioned. Christian Contemporary does great in places like Dallas, Atlanta, or Nashville, but not in a ethnically diverse metro area like Chicago. I know that EMF does not care about ratings--they care about donations, but they can expect alot more donations from the suburbs because that's where most of the listeners are, especially the DuPage 'bible belt'.

Okay, now it's my turn to invoke the word "irrelevant." Irrelevant because The Fish and WJKL both covered the so-called "DuPage Bible Belt" thoroughly, which firmly holds the 2nd-place population title. Don't blame demographics... That makes it sound like it's the "people's fault" for not listening to a station. Maybe to a lot of Christian Contemporary listeners, 106.7 The Fish just sucked. I knew people in Berwyn and Naperville who used to listen to Shine 89.7 WONU instead of The Fish, even though WONU's signal is horribly weak there.

You are ignoring HAAT. 3500 watts is not a downgrade when you raise the antenna from 328 to 440 feet.

I said it was a reduction in wattage. Personally, I would rather hear station with more watts from a low tower than a station with less watts on a high tower. Taller is not always better. Have you ever driven through Milwaukee or Indianapolis, and noticed how much louder/better/clearer their full power, Class B, FM's sound than Chicago's? The reason is that they are pumping out 50,000 watts ERP. But when you drive around Chicago's suburbs, and try to listen to a downtown staion broadcasting with just 5,700 watts, you hear static and signal fade.

Hmmm... 90.1 WMBI-FM is 100,000 watts, and their signal quite frankly sucks for all that power. I can drive anywhere in Will County -- even extreme southwestern Will -- and get a cleaner signal from every station atop the Hancock and Sears compared to WMBI-FM. How about 50,000-watt WPWX? Take a look at their coverage area, which is significantly less than the Chicago stations. I live directly south of WPWX in Will County, and the signal levels I get from Chicago stations vs. WPWX are virtually identical, even though WPWX is only half the distance.

Tower height almost always trumps power, except when taken to absolute extremes. I'm sure that the 2-watt station I mentioned from the Sears Tower on 100.7 has major trouble with building penetration. I know that 93.7 WBCT Grand Rapids doesn't have any problems punching through walls in Western Michigan with 320,000 watts of power. But again, these are extremes.

A highly un-intelligent move? Well, if your listeners are bovine in nature, then yes.

I am refering to the listeners (actual humans) that can hear the station now, but may not after this move.

I am sure there will be listeners who can't hear WJKL after the move, but the number of abandoned listeners will be a fraction of what new listeners they can cover, even with skewed demographics.

 

[Countrykev]

Well said, again, Philip. There are several other examples I can cite of crappy coverage with a high power signal at low HAAT.

I said it was a reduction in wattage. Personally, I would rather hear station with more watts from a low tower than a station with less watts on a high tower. Taller is not always better. Have you ever driven through Milwaukee or Indianapolis, and noticed how much louder/better/clearer their full power, Class B, FM's sound than Chicago's? The reason is that they are pumping out 50,000 watts ERP. But when you drive around Chicago's suburbs, and try to listen to a downtown staion broadcasting with just 5,700 watts, you hear static and signal fade.

Couple of points I want to make:

A class B signal has a maximum facility of 50,000 watts at 150 meters. You get any higher than that and you have to derate your signal. So while they are transmitting only 5700 watts at the top of Sears, they technically and theoretically have the same coverage as a 50kw signal at 150 meters. The only difference being building penetration is not as good in the fringe areas and you can't pick up the station on your teeth half a mile from the transmitter. Height wins, pretty much everytime.

I said it was a reduction in wattage. Personally, I would rather hear station with more watts from a low tower than a station with less watts on a high tower. Taller is not always better. Have you ever driven through Milwaukee or Indianapolis, and noticed how much louder/better/clearer their full power, Class B, FM's sound than Chicago's? The reason is that they are pumping out 50,000 watts ERP. But when you drive around Chicago's suburbs, and try to listen to a downtown staion broadcasting with just 5,700 watts, you hear static and signal fade.

There are major differences between Milwaukee and Indianapolis vs. Chicago. Chicago's metro is about twice as large as both of those cities. You're 40 miles away from downtown if you're listening in Aurora! That's a stretch for any signal. If you want to go further, raise the height. If you want to cover a small area very well, up the power on a shortened stick.

Also, Milwaukee and Indianapolis's signals are much more centrally located in the metro. Whereas Chicago they are all on one end and wasting half their signal over water. Again, another case for raised height. Best place for Chicago's signals would be somewhere along 290, like in Forest Park or Broadview. But there aren't any 1300ft buildings there.

 

[amfmhdst]

Does anybody think they'd be willing to sell to a company that would want to make it a commercial station?

 

[War Of Attrition]

Does anybody think they'd be willing to sell to a company that would want to make it a commercial station?

Sure, if the deal was sweet enough. EMF bought WJKL last year for 17 million. If the application is approved, the stick value is probably in the 35-45 million range and I am not sure anybody would be willing to pay that much.