Would FM Simulcasts of 1010 WINS and WCBS NewsRadio 880 be smart?

[NorwoodBoundD]

I am huge fans of 1010 WINS and WCBS NewsRadio 880. I have seen many say that FM radio is heavily listened to by younger audiences, so why not have FM simulcasts of these two All-News Giants? This would be a great way to reach younger audiences. I know that 1010 WINS and WCBS NewsRadio 880 have apps to listen to the station, but I think simulcasting these stations on FM would be brilliant. Am I wrong on this assessment? Comment as you see fit.

 

[BruceS8852]

WCBS at 880 AM and WINS at 1010 AM are successful as they are. If it's not broken, don't fix it. New 880 can be heard at 101.1-HD3 and WINS is at 102.7 HD3.

Bruce

 

[nd2023]

CBS doesn't need to worry about FM News since Merlin's about to give up on it. News will not be viable on FM in the near term, so as long as all the news stations remain on AM, WCBS and WINS will stay there. WFAN is grabbing the lion's share of sports advertising revenue, but now that ESPN is on FM, its revenue will increase. The question is how much. ESPN is synonymous with sports nationwide, and WFAN is just a local brand.

 

[XCountry285]

I still don't understand why people can't push a button to go to AM. Also I don't get why AM's sound quality is such crap. We can create HD Radio iyet you can't fix AM's sound?! I don't quite get that. It's there use it! In fact if they fixed AM's sound problem to make it like FM without people having to buy an HD Radio people would maybe listen to the radio. Also for radio they should be going and playing album cuts and not playing the same songs over & over & over again. It's better and it gives the artist more exposure.

 

[TimeIsTight]

Insert Quote
I still don't understand why people can't push a button to go to AM. Also I don't get why AM's sound quality is such crap

People, and particularly young women, don't got to AM because there is no format there to attract them. It's something like 75-or-80-percent of people NEVER listen to AM. In most of the country AM is doing a fade to oblivion. It's 90-year old technology, and just like the phonograph record, black and white TV, dial telephones, phone booths, even video stores etc. its outdated and people have better options.

New York is a bit of an exception because it has four or five 50-kw AM stations that have great signals, many other big cities only have one or two, and most places have none. AM can sound better than it does, its often the cheap AM radio's that are the problem. The industry big wigs are well aware of the problem, and HD was supposed to be a fix, that would allow a smooth transition to digital broadcasting that would allow AM to sound like FM. Possibly, just switching some markets over to full power HD or digital transmissions should be tested, but most people would have to buy new radios. Every now and then the broadcasters association has a big pow wow on what to do about fading AM listening. There is another one scheduled soon.

As far as stations playing the same records over-and-over again, they do that because research has shown that brings in the most listeners. People want to hear music that is familiar. The stations are not in business to promote "artists" they are in business to sell the attention of crowds, and they can draw the biggest crowds with the most popular and most familiar music so they play the same songs over and over again. If they could draw a bigger audience with lots of variety from album cuts they would do it. The stations will just do whatever works best for them, and what works best draws the biggest crowd in the right age demos, and is most attractive to advertisers who pay all the bills.

 

[benale]

As other posters have mentioned, it only takes a push of a button to go from FM to AM. Most people think AM for news and talk, FM for music. What is so difficult to understand? Of course news,sports and talk stations do find their way to FM, but at this point AM is the band for most spoken word formats. Most radios still have both bands, and probably won't change for some time.

Merlin thought putting an all news format on FM would bring in younger listeners. With WCBS and WINS so firmly established as the news stations to turn to, WEMP hardly gained any traction. If you have a good product and a good signal with a news or talk format people will listen,regardless of band. San Francisco and Chicago are simulcasting their AM signals on FM and their ratings increased. However, the FM stations they replaced were not doing well. WINS and WCBS are doing fine on their own and CBS doesn't really have an FM that needs to be replaced.

 

[jhguthlac]

NYC is truely a unique market, given the number of 50kw stations, especially clear channel stations. In Philadelphia, there are only 2, all-news KYW and talk WPHT. Thus when sports talk moved to FM, it was a big deal and listener response has been positive. Moving the news to FM would be a good move in Philly, as 1060 does not effectively cover the entire metro area.

WCBS and WINS are very effective signal-wise. However, at some point the lowering number of listeners hitting the AM button needs to be understood. There are markets now where as little as 7-percent of radio listeners are tuned to AM. People simply never listen to AM. At some point this will effect even NYC.

 

[luperm]

It's simple math.
Will the incremental revenue of a AM to FM move or simulcast be more than the current profit of the existing FM that you propose to blow up?

 

[semoochie]

" AM can sound better than it does, its often the cheap AM radio's that are the problem. The industry big wigs are well aware of the problem, and HD was supposed to be a fix, that would allow a smooth transition to digital broadcasting that would allow AM to sound like FM." Actually, IBOC was never intended to improve AM but research showed it as possible and a system improving both bands would be more likely to pass FCC muster. AM is just along for the ride.

 

[Ai4i]

Actually, IBOC was never intended to improve AM...

???

 

[recto101]

No because at this time CBS does not have a failing FM station in NYC. The reason KCBS in SFO decided to put its all news format on 106.9 is because KFRC-FM failed in Oldies back in 2008. I doubt you can do this today especially when Car makers like Ford, GM, Toyota, and Tesla are considering to put dashboard apps in the car for future models. I know Clear Channel did put the I heart radio app for 2012-2013 Toyota cars. But I say stay tuned. I may be a big fan of WCBS 880 via the radio.com national feed but WCBS-AM and WINS will never pull off that move that KCBS, WBBM, WTOP-FM, and WNEW-FM did by putting their news on FM. Well KCBS, WBBM, and WTOP tend to have the top 3 ratings spots in their respective markets. I say WCBS 880, WINS 1010 and KNX 1070 should all wait until the car companies decide to put the radio.com app on the their dashboards.

 

[radioguy39nj]

Neither WINS or WCBS will go to FM any time soon. If one of them went to FM, it would have to be WCBS. WINS on a full-market FM with it's focus on NYC just wouldn't do as well in the suburbs. WCBS with a suburban and world focus would do better. It's not happening, so it's a moot point.

WFAN is a different story with WEPN now on FM. No way will CBS blow up 660 AM, but I think a simulcast is a distinct possibility. WFAN is CBS' flagship sports station. I don't think they'll wait two years like WIP in Philly did to get to FM. It's simply a matter of where CBS puts the WFAN simulcast, 92.3 or 102.7. It's not going on 101.1.

CBS' deals with both the Mets and Yankees are up at the end of this season. That should make it very interesting!

 

[davideduardo]

I say WCBS 880, WINS 1010 and KNX 1070 should all wait until the car companies decide to put the radio.com app on the their dashboards.

The current average age of vehicles in the US is 11 years, and increasing due to the recession.

That means that only about 5% of vehicles gets replaced each year, and most of them don't come with advanced dashboard technology yet. So, aside from already being able to plug phones into car audio, the dashboard penetration will be low for many years.

In the meantime, stations have to decide if they want to protect their franchise now while the transition from towers-and-transmitters to new media distribution is the smaller part of all listening.

 

[davideduardo]

NYC is truely a unique market, given the number of 50kw stations, especially clear channel stations. In Philadelphia, there are only 2, all-news KYW and talk WPHT.

But... WFIL and WIP both have equal or better coverage than WPHT due to their frequency positions... 5 kw on 560 covers more than 50 kw on 1210.

There are markets now where as little as 7-percent of radio listeners are tuned to AM. People simply never listen to AM. At some point this will effect even NYC.

There are markets with less than 5% AM listening. Under 55, there are some with essentially no FM listening.

Your point on power and coverage is well taken. Washington, DC, has no AM that fully covers the market... and there are many many rated markets with similar situations ranging from Indianapolis to San Diego. And there are even more where only one or two AMs offers even close to full coverage... such as Houston, Miami, Atlanta and Phoenix.

 

[davideduardo]

People, and particularly young women, don't got to AM because there is no format there to attract them.

The real issue is that in most markets, there are only one or two viable signal AMs that cover fully or almost fully the whole metro day and night. In the top 100 markets, there are under 200 such stations. While New York has a real handful of them, DC, Indianapolis and San Diego have none, and many of even the top 20 markets only have one or two.

Since talk, news and sports are the biggest AM money makers, most markets don't have any signals left where some other format might be done.

In most of the country AM is doing a fade to oblivion. It's 90-year old technology, and just like the phonograph record, black and white TV, dial telephones, phone booths, even video stores etc. its outdated and people have better options.

AM's biggest issues beyond coverage are the declining quality of radios (assuming you can even find a radio anymore) and the rising noise levels in urban areas where a 10 mV/m or better to overcome residual noise.

New York is a bit of an exception because it has four or five 50-kw AM stations that have great signals, many other big cities only have one or two, and most places have none.

It is not about 50 kw stations. WMCA covers better than 1050 or 1130 or 1560 or 1280, all 50 kw stations. WIP and WFIL in Philadelphia cover as well as or better than 50 kw KYW and WPHT. The problem is that the FCC licensed most of the larger stations in the 30's, long before urban sprawl, and their misguided idea of "a station in every town" did not hold up in the post W.W. II years yielding a mess of inadequate stations.

FM won in the 70's mostly because every market has loads of big FM signals and once those facilities had decent, mass appeal programming, they took over.

 

[wadio]

AM's biggest issues beyond coverage are the declining quality of radios (assuming you can even find a radio anymore) and the rising noise levels in urban areas where a 10 mV/m or better to overcome residual noise.

BINGO! Here in Southern Connecticut it's getting worse by the month. Literally.

Where I drive, there are several spots where 770-AM is now nothing more than a high-pitched howl, while six months ago there was no problem. Whatever's jamming the signal has a range of 1 or 2 tenths of a mile. This interference is above and beyond the jamming caused by LED traffic lights which is at least a static (not growing) problem, if you'll pardon the pun.

I don't know at what point 770 will become "unlistenable" in the car, but I'm sure it's not an option in the homes of some of the neighborhoods I drive through.

 

[wpb1999]

I remember doing a thread about this in August. No one wants a crystal clear 1010 WINS.

 

[WNTIRadio]

CBS's 3 FM stations in NYC are all doing well, ratings and billing wise. Even 92.3, though it isn't #1, is doing okay.

Right now, there's no incentive for them to forgo revenue from one of the FM stations. If, somehow, ESPN on 98.7 winds up siphoning off listeners from the Fan, perhaps 92.3 would be simulcasting the Fan.

No way 101.1 or 102.7 are going to be blown out for 880 or 1010. No financial incentive to do that. And that, is all that really matters in the end. As long as 880 and 1010 are making money, and judging by the spot load on each there is no issue with that, and the FM stations are also making money, then nothing will change.

 

[wprt949]

At some point this weekend i expect 92.3 now to be flipped for a fan simulcast this is a big weekend coming up with format changes Lets wait and see

 

[FLjack2]

New 880 can be heard at 101.1-HD3 and WINS is at 102.7 HD3.
Bruce

HD stations are worthless and a waste of time. The average person does not own an HD radio and (unless their new car comes with one) will never buy one.

I dare anyone to find an HD-2 or HD-3 signal station that is not being simulcast on a translator that shows up in any ratings book in any market.