WRGB Will No Longer Be Carrying TV Audio on 87.7 FM Starting June 12th

[disney fanatic]

As I was mentioned on my 2009 predictions thread a few months ago that WRGB will no longer be carrying TV audio on 87.7 FM as of February 17th, but that was delayed. And in the next 6 days, WRGB-TV will be going digital as of June 12th and it will become WRGB-DT. As for the radio itself, when WRGB goes digital as of Friday, the station will no longer be carrying analog TV audio on 87.7 FM on your radio dial. Same thing goes with WPVI in Philadelphia where they no longer be carrying TV audio on radio at 87.7.

This one was posted in the "New York TV" board last week. I don't know if WRGB in Albany can go digital where they no longer be carrying analog TV audio on 87.7, it will go away in about 6 days. Anyone?

 

[4dude]

So will 87.7 be w/o a carrier or will it be a carrier of digital crap??


Whats always interested me is: RADIOS WILL NOT LOCK ON THE STEREO CARRIER ON 87.7 AND I CANT FIGURE IT OUT!!

WRGB is in stereo yet if you tune a car radio,etc to 87.7 it doesnt lock in..... (87.75 is close enough to 87.7 for a tuner to lock in i would think)

 

[sharksfan]

WRGB is in stereo yet if you tune a car radio,etc to 87.7 it doesnt lock in..... (87.75 is close enough to 87.7 for a tuner to lock in i would think)

My guess is that it depends on signal strength. I've had radios lock in on a solid stereo signal that is a full step (.2 MHZ) above or below the actual frequency if the signal is very strong.

I wish all digital radios had the capability to tune in quarter steps (.05 MHZ). It's come in handy for me when attempting to reduce static and stabilize a distant signal.

 

[w9wi]

So will 87.7 be w/o a carrier or will it be a carrier of digital crap??

The entire 82-88MHz channel will be occupied by WRGB's digital TV signal. The carrier will be on 82.31MHz. It'll be digital and it will carry both video and audio.

As with all other channel 6 full-power stations, you will no longer be able to hear the TV sound on a FM radio.

Whats always interested me is: RADIOS WILL NOT LOCK ON THE STEREO CARRIER ON 87.7 AND I CANT FIGURE IT OUT!!

WRGB is in stereo yet if you tune a car radio,etc to 87.7 it doesnt lock in..... (87.75 is close enough to 87.7 for a tuner to lock in i would think)

WRGB's analog signal is (for six more days) in *television* stereo. The TV stereo system is different from the one used for FM radio. (the difference is not extreme, but it's enough to prevent stereo TV stations from being received in stereo on a FM radio) You should be able (again, for six more days) to hear WRGB's audio in *mono*.

 

[CapitolNewsFlash]

Hey all rocket scientists. I talked to an engineer at cbs6 who said they did apply to the fcc to continue their broadcasts on fm. like disinterested did, all one had to do is call them or go to their website for the latest. its a big question that they had to answer.

 

[W2JUV_AL]

The method of transmitting analog TV sound in stereo is actually quite similar to FM stereo. IIRC, a pilot signal is transmitted that synchronizes the demodulation process within the receiver and turns on the stereo indicator. For FM the pilot tone frequency is 19Khz and for TV it is 15.75 Khz. The narrow bandwidth of the pilot amp within the FM rcvr does not pass the 15.75Khz signal, therefore no stereo indication, and no stereo demodulation.

 

[w9wi]

From WRGB's website:

What will happen to WRGB's audio on 87.7 FM?
We hope that the FCC will allow us to continue to operate on 87.7. We are building a unique transmitter for 87.7 that can operate simultaneously with our DTV signal on channel 6. TV transmissions always use horizontal antennas. Our new 87.7 transmitter will be vertically polarized. The use of vertical polarization for 87.7 will allow reception of our audio in a car radio or any other FM radio with a whip type antenna.

I know the facility is built. I do not know if it will be on June 13th.

BTW - a few low power channel 6's that don't have to go digital are operating as radio stations.

I wish them luck.....

There is nothing in the FCC database about this operation. That said, sometimes experimental and temporary authorities don't seem to make it to the database.

I have MAJOR doubts that this scheme will work. It can probably be *transmitted* successfully but *receivers* are going to face massive interference.

The problem is that almost nobody's FM antenna is wholly vertically polarized, and almost nobody's TV antenna is wholly horizontally polarized. For example, the antenna on my Ford Focus is tilted back at a 45-degree angle. It will receive horizontally- and vertically-polarized signals roughly equally well. Many TV viewers are using rabbit ears, which are also usually tilted at a 45-degree (more or less) angle and will receive horizontal and vertical signals roughly equally well.

So what will happen, IMHO... is that those trying to listen to WRGB's analog signal on a FM radio will find it mixed with the digital TV signal -- the FM audio will be VERY noisy, even for listeners near the tower. Those trying to watch WRGB's over-the-air signal on a digital TV will find it won't work at all -- because there will be a big fat FM carrier in the channel.

 

[w9wi]

The method of transmitting analog TV sound in stereo is actually quite similar to FM stereo. IIRC, a pilot signal is transmitted that synchronizes the demodulation process within the receiver and turns on the stereo indicator. For FM the pilot tone frequency is 19Khz and for TV it is 15.75 Khz. The narrow bandwidth of the pilot amp within the FM rcvr does not pass the 15.75Khz signal, therefore no stereo indication, and no stereo demodulation.

Yeah, that's what I meant by "not extreme, but it's enough to prevent stereo TV stations from being received in stereo on a FM radio.". The L-R difference signal is transmitted at twice the pilot frequency (38KHz for FM, 31.5KHz for TV) - again, while it's the same idea the frequencies are far enough apart that the FM receiver won't decode the TV stereo.

There is one more significant difference. For TV the L-R component is amplitude-companded using DBX technology. This greatly reduces the amount of noise in a stereo TV broadcast. (I'm sure most of you have heard how much noisier a weak FM signal is in stereo, compared to when the same station is in mono)

 

[disney fanatic]

I checked through my Walkman that has a TV audio band that WRGB is still on the air in analog, but it will have to wait until it goes away as of 11:59 PM, once if WRGB is gone, is gone! 87.7 is still on FM until the polarization takes place and it will be reducing it's digital signal.

I hope maybe, just maybe Pulse 87 will come in clear, or maybe not. We shall see come 11:59 PM.

 

[rjrodrig]

Are there any digital converters specifically designed to allow radios with TV audio capability to pick up the digital signals? I used to do a bit of TV DXing with a scanner that could get most of the TV bands.

 

[w9wi]

Are there any digital converters specifically designed to allow radios with TV audio capability to pick up the digital signals? I used to do a bit of TV DXing with a scanner that could get most of the TV bands.

I don't know of any.

Any DTV box should work if you can find a way to connect its output to the radio. You're going to have to hook the box to an actual TV long enough to scan for channels, and you're going to have a hard time knowing which channel you're listening to if there's no TV hooked up!

 

[disney fanatic]

I checked out my radio on 87.7 that as of 11:59 PM during David Letterman when it was on WRGB TV audio, the station has gone static. That means you are no longer be carrying a TV audio on 87.7 FM from analog. It's the end of an era. I recorded it at around 11:45 PM on a cassette when I was recording David Letterman on and all of a sudden when I was recording, the TV audio has gone static.

Look what happened in Philadelphia at WPVI, they went digital too as of 12:15 PM, same problem at 87.7. Thanks to the FCC for this historical landscape when we switched from analog to digital.

I have a cable box in my room, but still carrying digital signals prior to the switch. All DTV stations still remains the same.

 

[4dude]

I hope maybe, just maybe Pulse 87 will come in clear, or maybe not. We shall see come 11:59 PM.

I doubt it seeing the carrier from channel 6 IS STILL THERE but its now digital garbage!

What i dont understand is: WHY THE CHANGE? ANALOG IS MUCH MORE RELIABLE ESPECIALLY IN FRINGE AREAS.... AND THEY ARE STILL TAKING UP 6MHZ OF BANDWIDTH EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE DIGITAL SO HOW CAN THAT OPEN UP THE FREQUENCIES FOR OTHER THINGS?? (THE CARRIER IS STILL THERE TAKING UP THE FREQUENCY,YOU JUST CANT HEAR IT WITH A REG TUNER ANYMORE)

 

[disney fanatic]

Depending on where you live at home or in your car, you cannot pick up any signal from a regular tuner where WRGB's channel 6 audio carrier at 87.7. I have an aircheck of the final minutes of WRGB in analog at 87.7 which was a TV audio carrier and I will post it soon, because I don't have a computer yet.

 

[4dude]

Here is a site to upload the clip to

http://files.ww.com

 

[THE_KNICKMAN]

WRGB did have their 87.7 MHZ signal up in the early morning hours of Sat. June 13, but technical problems arose and it was taken down. According to their website, their engineers are attempting to solve the problem, but it may take a week to get it back on.

 

[4dude]

Channel 15 is still on in analog

 

[MHVRadiofan]

During the 11:00PM news they said that WRGB would continue to broadcast audio on 88.7 but they “had heard that there would have noise problems from the digital signal , so we will just have to wait and see.”