I should have clarified my previous remarks. When I meant Dover, I also meant the transmitter site as well. It lets the station be a bigger fish in a smaller pond.
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Wyoming TV station wants to come to Wilmington
- Thread starter MikefromDelaware
- Start date
ixnay said:w9wi said:
Gee, and all these years I thought Ch. 9 moving its COL to Secaucus was no more or less than an act of pure gumption by the Garden State, which, if you'll recall, had previously pilfered NYC's NFL and NASL (North American Soccer League) franchises.
ixnay
My bad re the NFL... I *think*. I remember seeing IDs for WOR-TV Secaucus as early as 1982, when the Giants had already been in East Rutherford for 6 years but the Jets were still in Shea Stadium. Gang Green didn't join Big Blue in the Meadowlands until 1984 I believe.
ixnay
It would really be cool if the K call letters transferred.
Neil Rattigan said:
You don't move a station all the way across the country just to go from market 163 (Pocatello-Idaho Falls) to market 147 (Salisbury).
"Delaware" is a red herring here, as is "New Jersey." These will be Philadelphia and NYC stations...not first-tier stations in any sense, but even a second- or third-tier station broadcasting from Roxborough with full Philadelphia-market cable must-carry is probably worth significantly more than, say, WMDT...or even WBOC.
As for those K-calls, Sam, if Press has its way they'll stay right where they are in Jackson, on the interim "new" channel 2 license that it hopes to be granted as a replacement for the relocated KJWY license.
And as for channel 9's move to Secaucus, the city of license change took place early in 1983, with the new Secaucus studios opening in 1986 and the call change to WWOR happening in 1987, for whatever that's worth.
The Lower Delaware cable companies carry all the Baltimore network affiliates so NBC programming is available to Delmarva. Many of you view the City of License rule as archaic, a wonderful holdover from the early days of TV. Wilmington is a prime example as to why the FCC should enforce COL requiring those stations (in this case Wilmington's channel 12 and channel 61) to do local news and other local public affairs programming for Wilmington. Here you have market #75 with about 580,000 people that have no TV news presence other than the occasional fire or death story that the Philly TV stations might cover, yet Dover that isn't even a rated radio market gets solid local coverage 7 days a week from the two Salisbury TV stations. The lower two counties in Delaware (Kent and Sussex) do have local TV news coverage whereas the most populous county (New Castle) has no coverage. There's something wrong with this picture.
Frankly, IF the Wyoming TV station comes to Wilmington, it should be required that it broadcast a daily 7 days a week Delaware newscast twice a day weekdays and at least once on Saturday and Sunday. It should also not be allowed to be an informercial station. There are plenty of syndicated programs out there that the Philly stations are not airing that could be broadcasted which would pull in both Wilmington and Philly viewers since the transmitter towers will be in Roxborough. The studios and offices must be located in Wilmington or its suburbs, not Philly or its suburbs. That way the move from Wyoming to Wilmington would actually serve Wilmington and not simply line the owners pockets.
Frankly, IF the Wyoming TV station comes to Wilmington, it should be required that it broadcast a daily 7 days a week Delaware newscast twice a day weekdays and at least once on Saturday and Sunday. It should also not be allowed to be an informercial station. There are plenty of syndicated programs out there that the Philly stations are not airing that could be broadcasted which would pull in both Wilmington and Philly viewers since the transmitter towers will be in Roxborough. The studios and offices must be located in Wilmington or its suburbs, not Philly or its suburbs. That way the move from Wyoming to Wilmington would actually serve Wilmington and not simply line the owners pockets.
I
imhomerjay
Guest
Those kinds of conditions would be blatantly unconstitutional.
Most of the FCC rules, COL included, are beyond archaic in the Internet age. I'd rather save us all the tax money and have the FCC serve as little more than glorified signal traffic cop. Less pencil pushers, less hearings, less rules, less money. In this day and age, if there's an untapped profitable market, let someone pursue it. Don't spend my hard-earned money funding an agency to tell someone how to run a business.
Most of the FCC rules, COL included, are beyond archaic in the Internet age. I'd rather save us all the tax money and have the FCC serve as little more than glorified signal traffic cop. Less pencil pushers, less hearings, less rules, less money. In this day and age, if there's an untapped profitable market, let someone pursue it. Don't spend my hard-earned money funding an agency to tell someone how to run a business.
The issue is having stations, be they radio or TV, trying to serve a larger market than their COL, because it's nearby and the potential to make more money, etc, rather than serving the actual city they were granted the license to serve. Remember broadcast licenses are not a right, but a privledge granted by the powers to be as there are only a few available for any given area or market (unlike newspapers that aren't regulated so anyone who can own, rent, or get the use of a printing press can publish a newspaper). So both Channel's 12 and 61 should also be required by the FCC to tow the line and broadcast some sort of local Delaware programming during normal viewing hours ( not the middle of the night) to serve the people in the COL.
It would be like having channel 8 in Lancaster or channel 69 in Allentown trying to serve Philly and ignoring Lancaster or Allentown. Philly gets more than enough coverage with their lineup of TV and radio stations, Wilmington's market should be served by it's COL stations. So yes, if the Wyoming TV station comes to Wilmington they should also be required to serve their new market with local programming. That is not archaic, but is making sure a limited resource is used for the best interests of the local community where the COL is located. Frankly, the FCC should tell the owners of the Wyoming TV station BEFORE granting them the move to Wilmington that no they will not be allowed to make the new TV station into an informercial station (other than maybe from 1am-5am), but must air real programming the rest of the time. If that is not acceptable to the Wyoming folks then let them stay in Wyoming, who needs an informecial TV station cluttering up the dial while still leaving Wilmington without a real TV station. Sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree on this issue as I believe that with this type of limited resource is a place for government to give direction as to limits on what can and can not be done so that the people of a given community are served by those who have the privledge of owning and operating a radio or TV station.
It would be like having channel 8 in Lancaster or channel 69 in Allentown trying to serve Philly and ignoring Lancaster or Allentown. Philly gets more than enough coverage with their lineup of TV and radio stations, Wilmington's market should be served by it's COL stations. So yes, if the Wyoming TV station comes to Wilmington they should also be required to serve their new market with local programming. That is not archaic, but is making sure a limited resource is used for the best interests of the local community where the COL is located. Frankly, the FCC should tell the owners of the Wyoming TV station BEFORE granting them the move to Wilmington that no they will not be allowed to make the new TV station into an informercial station (other than maybe from 1am-5am), but must air real programming the rest of the time. If that is not acceptable to the Wyoming folks then let them stay in Wyoming, who needs an informecial TV station cluttering up the dial while still leaving Wilmington without a real TV station. Sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree on this issue as I believe that with this type of limited resource is a place for government to give direction as to limits on what can and can not be done so that the people of a given community are served by those who have the privledge of owning and operating a radio or TV station.
Yes, I side with MfromD on the issue of Uncle Sam stepping in to make sure the WY folks "do it right" if they bring their station to Delaware. We need government *sometimes*, not necessarily all the time.
Wonder if the Equality State folks know that Delaware has a little town (just south of Dover) called Wyoming?
Wonder if New Jerseyans know that Delaware has a little town (also just south of Dover) called Camden?
ixnay
Wonder if the Equality State folks know that Delaware has a little town (just south of Dover) called Wyoming?
Wonder if New Jerseyans know that Delaware has a little town (also just south of Dover) called Camden?
ixnay
I
imhomerjay
Guest
Rules governing the media from the pre-Internet, and for that matter pre-cable TV with its community access channels, age are antiquated and could stand some serious upgrading to keep up with the reality here in 2009. Forcing businesses to spend money on little-watched hyper-local programming is counter to a generally free market system. Channels 8 and 69 found a local niche, and good for them, and they're doing so without the federal pencil pushers telling them they must do X, Y and Z. Amazing how that works.
Moreover, can someone explain the harm in a station moving to a location where it's not replacing something else? Nothing is being lost, regardless of whether some die-hards think it's a net gain on the content front. What's more, even at a minimal level, it's bringing in some new tax revenue and potential local employement--and that's a bad thing....how?
Moreover, can someone explain the harm in a station moving to a location where it's not replacing something else? Nothing is being lost, regardless of whether some die-hards think it's a net gain on the content front. What's more, even at a minimal level, it's bringing in some new tax revenue and potential local employement--and that's a bad thing....how?
What's lost is the opportunity for a local operator to possibly put a station on the frequency that actually targets and SERVES the community and audiences. If all you're going to create by moving an out-of-state frequency in is another infomercial factory, then what's the point as far as the community is concerned?
I'd love to know why no one has opposed the renewal of the license of stations like WMCN, or even WNJS which doesn't even seem to recognize anything south of Trenton.
I'd love to know why no one has opposed the renewal of the license of stations like WMCN, or even WNJS which doesn't even seem to recognize anything south of Trenton.
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imhomerjay
Guest
If you refuse to let someone move in because they won't instantly invest in what you want, you lose the chance they ever might. Again though, you don't have anything there now, so nothing goes away--the definition of "lost."
Sometimes, hard as it is to believe, you can serve an audience with content that has nothing to do with being "in" their town.
Sometimes, hard as it is to believe, you can serve an audience with content that has nothing to do with being "in" their town.
Free market 100% all the time isn't always the best answer either, witness the economic mess we're in due to the free market with bankers, home loans, Wall Street, CEO salaries, etc. With a limited resource, in this case radio/TV stations for a given market, government does need to step in and make sure that all broadcast markets are fairly represented and served by their respective radio / TV stations. It shouldn't be that only the large markets are represented by media and the smaller markets get ignored completely. Spin it any way you want, that is not reasonable.
Sometimes, hard as it is to believe, you can serve an audience with content that has nothing to do with being "in" their town.
There's nothing in Philly TV to believe in, because the TV media in Philly does not care to serve the Wilmington audience with quality news content other than the occasional police blotter or fire story from the First State. Salisbury MD TV news does serve Lower Delaware quite well, but Philly TV news is a joke from a Wilmington perspective. Wilmington is a larger market than Lancaster and Salisbury MD, yet we have no real TV station to serve our market. That is not right or reasonable. Surely, some bright entrepenur could operate a full service TV station in Wilmington and make money doing it. They'd have an monopoly as no one else is doing that anywhere in Delaware.
Frankly, I'm surprised that WDEL doesn't try again as they already have the news team, the local connection, reputation, sales force, etc, to make a Wilmington commercial TV station work and bring in a profit for Delmarva Broadcasting. Of course after the failure of their original WDEL-TV channel 7 from 1949, they probably are a bit "gun shy" to jump into TV again. However, maybe it's time for WDEL to rethink the TV issue and give a go again. If anyone could make it work, my guess is WDEL (Delmarva) would be the group to do it. However, maybe the Wyoming TV group will be the one's to finally bring Wilmington into the "Television age" more than 60 years later than the rest of the nation. One can hope.
Sometimes, hard as it is to believe, you can serve an audience with content that has nothing to do with being "in" their town.
There's nothing in Philly TV to believe in, because the TV media in Philly does not care to serve the Wilmington audience with quality news content other than the occasional police blotter or fire story from the First State. Salisbury MD TV news does serve Lower Delaware quite well, but Philly TV news is a joke from a Wilmington perspective. Wilmington is a larger market than Lancaster and Salisbury MD, yet we have no real TV station to serve our market. That is not right or reasonable. Surely, some bright entrepenur could operate a full service TV station in Wilmington and make money doing it. They'd have an monopoly as no one else is doing that anywhere in Delaware.
Frankly, I'm surprised that WDEL doesn't try again as they already have the news team, the local connection, reputation, sales force, etc, to make a Wilmington commercial TV station work and bring in a profit for Delmarva Broadcasting. Of course after the failure of their original WDEL-TV channel 7 from 1949, they probably are a bit "gun shy" to jump into TV again. However, maybe it's time for WDEL to rethink the TV issue and give a go again. If anyone could make it work, my guess is WDEL (Delmarva) would be the group to do it. However, maybe the Wyoming TV group will be the one's to finally bring Wilmington into the "Television age" more than 60 years later than the rest of the nation. One can hope.
I
imhomerjay
Guest
If there was some big profit to be made, might not companies have been looking for a way to make it? Might they not have been trying to get the commercial allocation for some time now? Or perhaps enough of the market gets the local information it needs from other sources and there isn't a gaping, profitable hole for producing local broadcast TV.
What level of government involvement we need in financial type matters is an interesting debate, but in an age where media is far, far different than it was just a few decades ago, and when broadcast TV is not at all the dominant force to the level it once was, government mandates are little more than a way to spend taxpayer money to program to an audience that doesn't want it. The E/I mandates are little different; they're a waste of time and nothing more than a way for lawmakers to puff their chests and say they supported educational programming....because who can be against that?
Sometimes, life isn't fair. Some cities just don't get the attention others do. We don't need to get into legislating equality among media resources.
What level of government involvement we need in financial type matters is an interesting debate, but in an age where media is far, far different than it was just a few decades ago, and when broadcast TV is not at all the dominant force to the level it once was, government mandates are little more than a way to spend taxpayer money to program to an audience that doesn't want it. The E/I mandates are little different; they're a waste of time and nothing more than a way for lawmakers to puff their chests and say they supported educational programming....because who can be against that?
Sometimes, life isn't fair. Some cities just don't get the attention others do. We don't need to get into legislating equality among media resources.
I
imhomerjay
Guest
Well, gee, let's see. WPHL has all of 30 minutes of news, and if NBC 10 decided tomorrow to bail on that deal, they'd have close to zero local programming save for the "Better" hybrid. Would they still be serving Philly? Yup. Even without a bunch of Wayne's World type local shows attracting a scant audience.
The difference is Philly is served by let's see, 3,6,10, and 29 all of whom do multiple local Philly newscasts. So if channel 17 dropped their newscast, there are 4 other full service Philly TV stations to get local Philly news and info. Wilmington has 2 TV stations (12 and 61) and only channel 12 offered 30 minutes a day Monday - Friday, no shows on holidays or weekends until they stop the show completely in another week. Then there is no place to get Wilmington news via TV. There's a major difference here between channel 17 not offering local Philly news and channel's 12 and 61 not offering any local Wilmington news or local programming. The Wilmington stations are not serving their local community (COL) at all. The only time you'd know they were Wilmington stations is once an hour when they are required to show a legal ID. Channel 61's legal id is so small you need a magnifying glass to read the calls and COL.
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imhomerjay
Guest
The problem with that reasoning is you cannot hold two entities that do fundamentally the same thing to different standards because one company has peers in its area and one doesn't. If WFMZ, for example, felt the economic downturn was just too much for them and they couldn't afford to keep doing local news, should they be immediately forced from the air because they're now not 'serving,' by one person's standards, the COL? Presumably, though, they get viewers for the syndicated fare they run, which means, by definition, they are serving viewers. They're offering content people in their viewing area want to see at a rate that sustains their business.
By extension, then, if chanels 12 and/or 61 were pumping out whatever level of local programming you deem adequate, would this proposed move-in require the feds stick their nose in and force them to throw money down a hole that might not be profitable?
Or maybe we need to start mandating font size on IDs too. I mean, what better for the government to do with our money for something even fewer people really care about?
By extension, then, if chanels 12 and/or 61 were pumping out whatever level of local programming you deem adequate, would this proposed move-in require the feds stick their nose in and force them to throw money down a hole that might not be profitable?
Or maybe we need to start mandating font size on IDs too. I mean, what better for the government to do with our money for something even fewer people really care about?
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