A
apco25
Guest
---->>>> Try the facts. There is data using the same basic methodology on radio listening using Arbitron going back to 1965. So if there was an erosion of listedning in the demos that are important to radio, then we could spot it.
When you state methodology , explain how that works by detecting erosion.
You and me had a recent debate about the music industry, and when I seem to notice something, you come out the opposite direction.
Look in the business board.
---->>>> Overnight advertising, whether in the 60's or today, has been a combination of a few attempts at revenue producing shows (Dolly Holliday for Holliday Inns in the early 60's and Art Bel et. al today.) but for th emost part, except for a couple of the clear channels, no station ever made money on Midnight to 5 AM. Remember, most stations stay on the air so the transmitter is verified as running just as morning drive starts.
I understand that, but I'm talking about these overnight commercials making their way in the daytime and afternoon logs.
>>>>>>>We all went with Arbitron dayparts for consistency. 6-10, 10-3, 3-7, 7-12. Overnights produce scant listening and no revenue, so voice tracking or a board op is a good alternative. Weekend evenings have nearly no listeners, so this is a good place for specialty shows, often syndicated. There are many exceptions... the stations I am with in LA are all live 24/7 but that is an individual decision. I still remember 1-14-94 at 4:41 AM, when our live jock on KHJ had the mike open during the Northridge quake and was the only voice in Spanish on the air 60 seconds later and for the next 6 hours.
I can understand overnights and weekends, but this is happening in Mid-days, and afternoon drive. And more syndication then ever.
>>>>>>However, even in NY or LA or Chicago, it was never 95% agency. Lots of local and direct, including most of the car dealers, etc. Today, the hair remedies and re-fi accounts come from agencies, by the way. The US has changed, and there are a lot more product categories that like radio.
What I'm referring is the quality of the agency commercial. What all sounded like Fortune 500 back in the 70's -80's now sound like medium market production. I know there was some locals like car dealers, local record store chains, but you notice I don't hear the Noxema's, Coppertones, Nestle's, etc....(you remember the 60's c'mon) They dissapeared. I'm hearing how to set up a home business in the afternoon, and I once heard a gay bar commercial on our CHR in the 8 PM evening slot. I won't be surprised if the 976 lines are next, and scheduled for the daytime logs.
>>>>>Very few cases of overpayment exist. Nearly every station bought during early consolidations (1996 and on) is worth much more today. And since most were bought with mergers and stock swaps, there is practically no debt.
There like the houses today...over inflated, and Home run hitting ball players....Steroids. I feel like were living in hyped up propaganda times. I know they shot up, but there was theories that the reason stations are playing 10 minute plus spot loads because they have to pay for all their loans since the 96 deregulation.
---->>>> Playlists are a function of what listeners want. With so much specialization, the weekly 3 adds on a Top 40 in the 60's became 1 add each at the CHR, the AOR and the AC. The miusic business does not sell more due to fragmentation of radio. It just has each song played only on the stations that it fits. So there are probably more adds today than ever, but they are spread over several dozen formats, not just one or two main ones.
It doesn't feel that way. It feels like I hear 3 adds a month on all the 18 plus formats. An Add on happens when someone makes the tabloids it seems. Not that a program or music director discovered it. Since the 45 or single disappeared in retail, it's been down hill.
Now don't tell me Tower records is doing well too.
---->>>> TV was going to kill radio. And the 45. And the cassette. And cable and the CD. And so on . Personal music devices have coexisted with radio since the Victrola that plyed 78's.
Now c'mon, we can take this back to 1880 when sheet music, versus the victrola or phonograph. TV didn't kill the radio, it never did, it just killed the Radio star. (no Pun intended). There weren't many sources in 1952 that TV competed with. What saved radio was the word contemporary. It would've gone sooner,but the ASCAP publishing cout case of 1934 held that up for 15 years. If it wasn't for BMI, there still today wouldn't be a top 40 format today.
---->>>> The change in 25-54 cume of radio since 1975 is less than 1%. It is way off in teens, and way off in 55+, because radio has no interest in either group as there are no ad buys to be had for that audience.
And that's where there gonna kill themselves. No farm club, No future.
--->>>> Radio revenues are up this year, probably between 2% and 3% only, but up. Lots of posts say listening is way off and advertisers are leaving. They are not. LA will hit $1.1 billion in billing this year, for example.
You may be right , but question what's been going on at CBS, Free FM, Clear channel restructure, it's hard to believe.
--->>>> AM revenues are down in nearly every market. FM is up. It seems like ther eis slow growth, but FM is being dragged dwon in the averages by AM.
That's been going on since the 80's. Every AM/FM combo I worked at couldn't wait to unload the AM somewhere else.
--->>>> Two years ago, for the first time since the '50's, radio broke into the 8% share of all ad revenue. That is not a symptom of a dead business. Are there threats? Yeah, but the Highway HiFi was a threat, too (the 16 rpm record player in mid-50's Chrysler cars) and radio survived.
Posted on: Yesterday at 09:25:49 pmPosted by: apco25
That's not a threat. It's a gimmick that never went anywhere. If you would a put a CD slot back then, then radio what have some concerns back then. It wasn't a threat. It's like HD radio.
When you state methodology , explain how that works by detecting erosion.
You and me had a recent debate about the music industry, and when I seem to notice something, you come out the opposite direction.
Look in the business board.
---->>>> Overnight advertising, whether in the 60's or today, has been a combination of a few attempts at revenue producing shows (Dolly Holliday for Holliday Inns in the early 60's and Art Bel et. al today.) but for th emost part, except for a couple of the clear channels, no station ever made money on Midnight to 5 AM. Remember, most stations stay on the air so the transmitter is verified as running just as morning drive starts.
I understand that, but I'm talking about these overnight commercials making their way in the daytime and afternoon logs.
>>>>>>>We all went with Arbitron dayparts for consistency. 6-10, 10-3, 3-7, 7-12. Overnights produce scant listening and no revenue, so voice tracking or a board op is a good alternative. Weekend evenings have nearly no listeners, so this is a good place for specialty shows, often syndicated. There are many exceptions... the stations I am with in LA are all live 24/7 but that is an individual decision. I still remember 1-14-94 at 4:41 AM, when our live jock on KHJ had the mike open during the Northridge quake and was the only voice in Spanish on the air 60 seconds later and for the next 6 hours.
I can understand overnights and weekends, but this is happening in Mid-days, and afternoon drive. And more syndication then ever.
>>>>>>However, even in NY or LA or Chicago, it was never 95% agency. Lots of local and direct, including most of the car dealers, etc. Today, the hair remedies and re-fi accounts come from agencies, by the way. The US has changed, and there are a lot more product categories that like radio.
What I'm referring is the quality of the agency commercial. What all sounded like Fortune 500 back in the 70's -80's now sound like medium market production. I know there was some locals like car dealers, local record store chains, but you notice I don't hear the Noxema's, Coppertones, Nestle's, etc....(you remember the 60's c'mon) They dissapeared. I'm hearing how to set up a home business in the afternoon, and I once heard a gay bar commercial on our CHR in the 8 PM evening slot. I won't be surprised if the 976 lines are next, and scheduled for the daytime logs.
>>>>>Very few cases of overpayment exist. Nearly every station bought during early consolidations (1996 and on) is worth much more today. And since most were bought with mergers and stock swaps, there is practically no debt.
There like the houses today...over inflated, and Home run hitting ball players....Steroids. I feel like were living in hyped up propaganda times. I know they shot up, but there was theories that the reason stations are playing 10 minute plus spot loads because they have to pay for all their loans since the 96 deregulation.
---->>>> Playlists are a function of what listeners want. With so much specialization, the weekly 3 adds on a Top 40 in the 60's became 1 add each at the CHR, the AOR and the AC. The miusic business does not sell more due to fragmentation of radio. It just has each song played only on the stations that it fits. So there are probably more adds today than ever, but they are spread over several dozen formats, not just one or two main ones.
It doesn't feel that way. It feels like I hear 3 adds a month on all the 18 plus formats. An Add on happens when someone makes the tabloids it seems. Not that a program or music director discovered it. Since the 45 or single disappeared in retail, it's been down hill.
Now don't tell me Tower records is doing well too.
---->>>> TV was going to kill radio. And the 45. And the cassette. And cable and the CD. And so on . Personal music devices have coexisted with radio since the Victrola that plyed 78's.
Now c'mon, we can take this back to 1880 when sheet music, versus the victrola or phonograph. TV didn't kill the radio, it never did, it just killed the Radio star. (no Pun intended). There weren't many sources in 1952 that TV competed with. What saved radio was the word contemporary. It would've gone sooner,but the ASCAP publishing cout case of 1934 held that up for 15 years. If it wasn't for BMI, there still today wouldn't be a top 40 format today.
---->>>> The change in 25-54 cume of radio since 1975 is less than 1%. It is way off in teens, and way off in 55+, because radio has no interest in either group as there are no ad buys to be had for that audience.
And that's where there gonna kill themselves. No farm club, No future.
--->>>> Radio revenues are up this year, probably between 2% and 3% only, but up. Lots of posts say listening is way off and advertisers are leaving. They are not. LA will hit $1.1 billion in billing this year, for example.
You may be right , but question what's been going on at CBS, Free FM, Clear channel restructure, it's hard to believe.
--->>>> AM revenues are down in nearly every market. FM is up. It seems like ther eis slow growth, but FM is being dragged dwon in the averages by AM.
That's been going on since the 80's. Every AM/FM combo I worked at couldn't wait to unload the AM somewhere else.
--->>>> Two years ago, for the first time since the '50's, radio broke into the 8% share of all ad revenue. That is not a symptom of a dead business. Are there threats? Yeah, but the Highway HiFi was a threat, too (the 16 rpm record player in mid-50's Chrysler cars) and radio survived.
Posted on: Yesterday at 09:25:49 pmPosted by: apco25
That's not a threat. It's a gimmick that never went anywhere. If you would a put a CD slot back then, then radio what have some concerns back then. It wasn't a threat. It's like HD radio.