Zoned out: What is the point of THE ZONE?

[Varulven]

OK, you've got WEEI with WRKO adding the Celtics and the Red Sox.

The Sox are spending millions (please keep Manny here!), which means they are going to be highly profitable
for the radio station carrying them.

Then you've got this thing:
WAMG - 890 ESPN Boston, 890 AM, Charlestown, Sports.

Can anyone tell me the point of THE ZONE without The Celtics?

http://www.searchboston.com/dir/News/Radio/

Jon Anik, Program Director
WWZN 1510 The Zone
1 Van de Graaff Dr.
Burlington, MA 01803
General Line781) 221-7878

Fax Line: (781) 221 - 7877
Caller Line: (866) 337 - ZONE (9663)
Contest Line: (866) 522 - 1510
General Email: [email protected]
http://www.1510thezone.com/

 

[weee]

When they were local, The Diehards were a good alternate to Ordway when they would start playing "If I talk louder than you, that means I'm right"

But since the station has "zoned out" Maybe Kevin Winter can scoop up John Anik for ESPN Boston?

 

[Mickey37]

The Zone has long since become a haven for syndicated programming. They didn't even get the decent national college football games this year, from what I could tell.

The only thing I can see going for them is that they're the local home of Nascar, but there are FM's to the north and south that also carry it, with much clearer audio of drivers making one long left turn at nearly 200 miles an hour.

I think 1510-AM will eventually follow the trend of many other small AM stations, and go ethnic.

 

[SonicOverload]

I'm only talking from a content, not business perspective here (yeah, I know)... the Zone provides an alternative to WEEI in that they TALK ABOUT SPORTS on the morning show. Not poltics, not what Meter did the night before. No h_omophobic diatribes. It's sports talk and the two guys (Bill Leykis, Matt Spiegel) are knowledgable and have a good sense of humor, as well. The programming throughout the day is solid. The 2-6 AM show with David Stein is one of the most cerebral, original on talk radio. Also, the shows start at 6 past the hour, not quarter past or 20 past like WEEI..

the national shows get a fair number of Mass/New England callers so there are obviously others who also seek an alternative to WEEI.

I go back and forth between the two stations and also put on 890 on occasion (although I can't get it for sh*t in my house)... I wish it came in stronger because I'd rather hear Felger than the Big Show from time to time.

so there's room for both, in terms of content. I hope SNR sticks around in this market...

 

[kjlassoc]

Go Ethnic? Isn't Nascar coverage already an example of going ethnic? I thought it was for people whose relatives migrated here from Nascaria.

 

[SonicOverload]

Go Ethnic? Isn't Nascar coverage already an example of going ethnic? I thought it was for people whose relatives migrated here from Nascaria.

is Nascaria south of the Mason-Dixon line?

actually, I also like the brokered boxing show on there. WEEI NEVER talks about boxing.

 

[HHH]

There must be some African-Americans with money that could buy 1510 and give Boston (once 1090 gets sold) its only black voice.

 

[Eli Polonsky]

There must be some African-Americans with money that could buy 1510 and give Boston (once 1090 gets sold) its only black voice.

I've heard that the problem with 1510 that has scared away any potential local or minority buyers is not the purchase price, but that the station allegedly has a $25k/month tower site rental fee, and an electric bill to run a full-time 50 kW AM that's also almost as high. It's viewed as a financial sinkhole. Way too much ongoing overheard for anyone to be willing to take a chance on it.

 

[argytunes]

In lieu of Eli's previous comment...should we assume that 1510 will eventually enter....(drum roll please)....."The Twilight Zoned!"

argytunes

 

[Varulven]

OK, at $300,000.00 per year tower rental fee (and another quarter of a mill in electric fees), it begs the question:

1)Length of the contract with said Tower

2)Ability to find a less expensive nut to crack - AmericanRadioTowers, Dodge Radio Towers, whatever
the former owner of WRKO calls his Tower Company

OK - here we go
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2004_Jan_20/ai_112342542

Steve Dodge to Retire as Chairman of American Tower Board of Directors
Business Wire, Jan 20, 2004 BOSTON--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Jan. 20, 2004

American Tower Corporation (NYSE: AMT) (the "Company") today announced that Steve Dodge, Chairman of the Board of Directors, has notified the Company that he intends to retire from the Board of Directors prior to the annual meeting of stockholders to be held during the second quarter 2004.

3)If ATC has a vested interest in other signals using their towers do they up the price for THE ZONE (kind of like Whitey Bulger "protection" to make things cost prohibitive for 1510), or was $25,000.00 per month the lowest fee 1510 AM could find?

4)At that rate, why stick with Sports radio. Can they possibly be meeting payroll, office, electric and tower fees with the business they are running?

I say bring back the real spirit of WMEX. Arnie Woo Woo piped in from Maine. Something creative on AM radio. You can't even broker time with that kind of expenses, unless it goes out at 500.00 per hour...

 

[Eli Polonsky]

OK, at $300,000.00 per year tower rental fee (and another quarter of a mill in electric fees), it begs the question:

1)Length of the contract with said Tower

2)Ability to find a less expensive nut to crack - AmericanRadioTowers, Dodge Radio Towers, whatever
the former owner of WRKO calls his Tower Company

It would be a tough call to find another tower site for 1510 that would fit its technical needs. The present site is a directional four-tower array located on land owned by the Waverly Oaks Office Park off of Route 60 at the Waltham/Belmont line. It has three different directional patterns. One for daytime, one for nighttime, and one for "critical hours", the two hours before sunset and after dawn.

It has to be situated where it can put an adequate signal over the City of Boston (and the suburbs within 128) without going much outside of 128, especially on night pattern. It has to protect frequencies in Canada and Tennesee at night, among others. Because it's a directional AM, it can't be placed on a building in the city or put on one tall tower like an FM station. The multi-tower array has to be built on soil with good conductivity, outside of the city with a directional pattern beamed at the city while protecting other stations in the necessary outlying directions, and the towers have to be certain heights to match a certain fraction of the wavelength of the station. It also has to be far enough to avoid interfering with towers of other local stations, and to avoid causing radio interference in the local area. When the present 1510 site was built in the early 80's, they had to spend millions on trying to eliminate interference problems to residents and companies in the Waltham and Belmont areas.

The location (Burlington) where WRKO's towers are may possibly work, but the RKO towers themselves wouldn't. They'd have to build a new site. And even if that was possible, I'm not sure if 1510 would put a strong enough signal over all of Boston from up there. Then, there's also the issue of finding a community willing to accept a multi-tower array being built in their area nowadays. It took Clear Channel over half a decade to convince Newton to go for the new 1200 towers. Someone like Dan Strassberg would know more about what options might possibly be technically available for a new site for 1510, but I recall the discussion coming up before, and hypothetical prospects that could meet all the necessary conditions looked pretty bleak.

3)If ATC has a vested interest in other signals using their towers do they up the price for THE ZONE (kind of like Whitey Bulger "protection" to make things cost prohibitive for 1510), or was $25,000.00 per month the lowest fee 1510 AM could find?

I think it was because they had to build their own site to serve their particular technical needs, and that was the only workable place they could find to build it.

4)At that rate, why stick with Sports radio. Can they possibly be meeting payroll, office, electric and tower fees with the business they are running?

A national company like Sporting News Radio may be able to keep it afloat if they have other profitable properties and businesses elsewhere, but they're probably taking a big loss on 1510. With no local programming, I'm sure they're running it as a skeleton operation with the lowest payroll and office expenses possible. The company has sold other underperforming stations elsewhere. Perhaps no one else has been willing to buy the 1510 albatross.

I say bring back the real spirit of WMEX. Arnie Woo Woo piped in from Maine. Something creative on AM radio. You can't even broker time with that kind of expenses, unless it goes out at 500.00 per hour...

I'd love to hear it, but it wouldn't be a financial success. There reportedly have been people interested in reviving 1510 as WMEX-AM with a "Real Oldies" format, but the extremely high overhead and operating costs, plus the ratings failures of other "revivals" of heritage AM Top 40 stations as "Real Oldies" elsewhere (WWKB Buffalo, WSAI Cincinnati, etc...) have discouraged all interest.

 

[HHH]

Any reason why 1510 couldn't diplex with 1260? OK, maybe the signal wouldn't be optimum, but at 50K day (probably non-directional from that site) they would be pretty reasonable, especially as an urban-aimed format. And the night signal, even tho directional and not optiumum, would probably cover the targeted urban areas, wouldn't it? And costs would be managed better. Who knows, maybe someone will buy 1260 from ABC along with 1510, and build a whole new dual site at the current 1260 location. I just keep thinking of 1510 with 50K non-directional from the coast will all that saltwater path. I remember their old 50K day directional from Squantum (as WMEX) was heard all up and down the coast from Maine to Nantucket.

Seems like there is an urban possibility here with a transmitter move to a diplex someplace (again maybe 1260), which would not require a big western-burb signal (which they can NEVER have, unless they move to Framingham and pump 500,000 watts straight east (grin).

 

[Eli Polonsky]

Going back to Quincy sounds like it could work well for an urban 1510 targeting the City of Boston. It would probably have to go down to 5kW at night like the old WMEX did, because aimed north into Boston at night 50kW would probably send too much signal toward Canada. But, 5kW from North Quincy would still cover the City of Boston well at night (except for Allston and Brighton, those would be marginal, as the old WMEX was there).

I don't know if they could use the 1260 towers because they may not be the right height and spacing for the wavelength. A techie like Dan Strassberg could probably answer that. They would probably have to build a new site.

I recall that one of the reasons they built the present Waltham site was because they actually had the Red Sox for a short time, and they demanded a signal that covered the west suburbs well within 128, which the old Quincy site did only very poorly at night. Obviously that demand is long gone for 1510.

Any reason why 1510 couldn't diplex with 1260? OK, maybe the signal wouldn't be optimum, but at 50K day (probably non-directional from that site) they would be pretty reasonable, especially as an urban-aimed format. And the night signal, even tho directional and not optiumum, would probably cover the targeted urban areas, wouldn't it? And costs would be managed better. Who knows, maybe someone will buy 1260 from ABC along with 1510, and build a whole new dual site at the current 1260 location. I just keep thinking of 1510 with 50K non-directional from the coast will all that saltwater path. I remember their old 50K day directional from Squantum (as WMEX) was heard all up and down the coast from Maine to Nantucket.

Seems like there is an urban possibility here with a transmitter move to a diplex someplace (again maybe 1260), which would not require a big western-burb signal (which they can NEVER have, unless they move to Framingham and pump 500,000 watts straight east (grin).

 

[CTListener]

Going back to Quincy sounds like it could work well for an urban 1510 targeting the City of Boston.

You still have the problem of music on AM.

I assume the urban format being talked about for 1510 would target an older audience rather than the one now being semi-served by WJMN. If the oldies revival stations cited earlier in the thread couldn't cut it on AM, what chance would an urban AC or urban gold format have on 1510? The potential audience is already listening to its favorite music on CD or mp3; why would it want to hear it in AM audio?

 

[HHH]

CTLIstener:

Yes, I am talking about a sort of full-service, adult urban station aimed at 35+. Some music (probably mostly Urban Oldies) with some telephone talk shows here and there. Possibly a Caribbean show on the weekend, and a little gospel music on Sunday morning.

If you are African-American and over 35 in Boston, I don't know of any station (outside of WILD-AM, whose days are probably numbered) that aims directly at the tastes and issues of many in that community.

Even if 1510 reverted back to 5KW at night from Quincy, I remember the old WMEX signal was just fine in Roxbury, Mattapan, Roslindale, Dorchester, etc. Maybe they can eventually up power at night because the Canadian station is dark and may not be protected "on paper" forever. Dan, you're the expert on this. Maybe 1510 could put up one tower on the 1260 site (proper height) to use as a daytime 50KW non-D, and then do the best they can with the 1260 diplex at night for the time being. They would certainly hit their target audience as an urban, and the station might be able to eventually upgrade back up to higher night power. Even one of the single 1260 towers diplexed pumping 50KW non-D in the daytime should be acceptable in urban Boston? Sounds a lot more practical than that expensive Waltham site.

 

[Eli Polonsky]

CTLIstener:

Yes, I am talking about a sort of full-service, adult urban station aimed at 35+. Some music (probably mostly Urban Oldies) with some telephone talk shows here and there. Possibly a Caribbean show on the weekend, and a little gospel music on Sunday morning.

I think it could have a chance of working. It sounds like you're describing what the old WILD-AM 1090 was doing before Radio One tried moving it's format to 97.7 and blending it with hip-hop programming, an unfocused idea which couldn't work well.

And, the old WILD-AM did get SOME ratings, usually well above a 1 share on a 5 kW daytimer that couldn't be on the air at night at all. If this hypothetical idea for an adult urban 1510 transmitting from Quincy could be executed with low enough expenses and overhead, perhaps it could be viable, and despite AM fidelity it would have listeners because it would be the only game in town for the format as the old WILD-AM was until just a year ago. I don't believe that entire audience is listening to CD's and iPods all the time. I think they would welcome the ability to simply turn on the radio to hear the music, and some localized programming elements that would relate to the community.

 

[Laurence Glavin]

CTLIstener:

Yes, I am talking about a sort of full-service, adult urban station aimed at 35+. Some music (probably mostly Urban Oldies) with some telephone talk shows here and there. Possibly a Caribbean show on the weekend, and a little gospel music on Sunday morning.

I think it could have a chance of working. It sounds like you're describing what the old WILD-AM 1090 was doing before Radio One tried moving it's format to 97.7 and blending it with hip-hop programming, an unfocused idea which couldn't work well.
And, the old WILD-AM did get SOME ratings, usually well above a 1 share on a 5 kW daytimer that couldn't be on the air at night at all. If this hypothetical idea for an adult urban 1510 transmitting from Quincy could be executed with low enough expenses and overhead, perhaps it could be viable, and despite AM fidelity it would have listeners because it would be the only game in town for the format as the old WILD-AM was until just a year ago. I don't believe that entire audience is listening to CD's and iPods all the time. I think they would welcome the ability to simply turn on the radio to hear the music, and some localized programming elements that would relate to the community.

Several months ago, Walter Mossberg, the writer at the Wall street Journal who writes about technical gizmos opined that iPods and MP3 players compress and take the life out of recorded material so much that many users of these devices have forgotten what good reproduction (of sound, that is) is like. Bob Dylan echoed that sentiment a short time ago.

 

[SonicOverload]

Several months ago, Walter Mossberg, the writer at the Wall street Journal who writes about technical gizmos opined that iPods and MP3 players compress and take the life out of recorded material so much that many users of these devices have forgotten what good reproduction (of sound, that is) is like. Bob Dylan echoed that sentiment a short time ago.

amazing, isn't it... I was just talking about this last week. The fact that CDs replaced vinyl because of the allegedly superior sound and now it seems as though the compressed MP3 format is a step backwards in terms of fidelity!

 

[Eli Polonsky]

amazing, isn't it... I was just talking about this last week. The fact that CDs replaced vinyl because of the allegedly superior sound and now it seems as though the compressed MP3 format is a step backwards in terms of fidelity!

Well, mp3 IS a compressed audio format. It's intended to enable a lot of music to be stored in very small spaces, and there is some inherent fidelity loss. Not as bad as the fidelity of narrowband AM radio, but many audiophiles I know refused to embrace any form of mp3 formatted music whatsoever for many years. Then when the iPod came out, they all finally gave in because they were taken by the ability to store, self-program, and play so much music on such a small portable device ("Gee, it doesn't sound that bad after all, does it...").

As for AM, I keep saying it, but If we could've developed wideband analog AM stereo, we would have a form of AM music broadcasting with fidelity fairly competitive with analog FM, at least for local reception. I have a mid-1980's wideband AM stereo receiver at home, and WJIB on daytime power sounds amazing (for AM) on it, just about as good as analog FM stereo here in Somerville. Their low power nighttime signal has some background noise, but the full fidelity and stereo separation is still there.

If this fantasy hypothetical adult urban 1510 that we were discussing was to broadcast in wideband analog AM stereo and came up with a promotion to distribute AM stereo receivers to their listeners in their primary coverage area, a small hand-held AM stereo receiver preset to only 1510 could be manufactured on the cheap, then plugged into an iPod transponder that rebroadcast the station on a low-power FM stereo signal to a nearby FM receiver. Then, there would be no significant sacrifice in audio fidelity from FM stereo. I've set up an early 90's Sony AM stereo Walkman with an iPod transponder that way to hear WJIB in AM stereo in my car.

Unfortunately, I did have to spend about $50 for a good quality FM transponder. The cheap $20 Radio Shack house brand one I bought first wouldn't even send a solid stereo signal from inside my car to the antenna on the fender a few feet away.

 

[DanStrassberg]

Going back to Quincy sounds like it could work well for an urban 1510 targeting the City of Boston. It would probably have to go down to 5kW at night like the old WMEX did, because aimed north into Boston at night 50kW would probably send too much signal toward Canada. But, 5kW from North Quincy would still cover the City of Boston well at night (except for Allston and Brighton, those would be marginal, as the old WMEX was there).

I've been told that the WRKO site, which sits atop the wells that form the Burlington water supply are protected by a covenant that precludes any more towers or other construction there.

Other possibilities include the WEEI site--but not the WEEI towers. It wouldn't be the first case of two AMs sharing a site but using separate towers and not diplexing. The problem is that such a setup with two 50-kW stations and seven total towers would be very technically challenging (read EXPENSIVE).

1510 might also diplex with WEZE in Medford. This would require adding (probably two) towers between WEZE's existing pair. The drawback is that the night signal would cover very little of the market west of the Medford site, which is pretty far east. Absolutely not a full-market nighttime signal.

A diplex with 1260 could definitely work by day. In fact, 50 kW ND operation might be feasible during noncritical daylight hours. At night, because of the FCC's "ratchet rule," which requires changed facilities to ratchet down interference to other stations, the power would likely be limited to less than 5 kW and would not cover the market. However, due to a change in the FCC rules made only last week, WWZN would no longer need to wait for a "filing window" to apply to change its CoL to Quincy or Milton. I believe 1510 could cover Quincy adequately at night from the WMKI site. Coverage of the parts of Boston near the shore would be good as would coverage of close-in communities on the North Shore (Everett, for example). Although the NIF calculations say that the night signal would be listenable several miles inland, actual listening to the old Squantum signal at night tells me that, thanks to WWKB and WTWP, that idea is pure fiction.