Colorado Springs is not a PPM market. PPM is only in 48 of the top 50 markets. It is not in market 90 where the "mother station" is... and obviously not in market 238 where 1530 is.
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KRTH 2013 Labor Day Countdown
- Thread starter oldies76
- Start date
Colorado Springs is not a PPM market. PPM is only in 48 of the top 50 markets. It is not in market 90 where the "mother station" is... and obviously not in market 238 where 1530 is.
One more time, Steve:
Chart performance back in the day is irrelevant.
Especially to listeners whose parents hadn't even met yet.
My bad...1530 comes in much stronger here in town, than 690 does (based in Pueblo)...Here's a link I found just a while ago:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KCMN
I see David has already mentioned that yours is not a PPM market.
If it were, what you do and don't do would have no effect unless you were wearing a Portable People Meter.
Here's a brief list of what other stations are doing for this Labor Day Weekend, besides KRTH.
94.5 KOOL - Labor Day Weekend Top 500 Countdown
101.1 WCBS - Top 500 Countdown
98.1 WOGL - Every #1 song from the 60's to the 80's in A to Z order. They are playing LOTS of pre-64's (they have started already!!) and yes "Honey" was played today at 4:16pm. Songs by Pat Boone, Highwaymen, Singing Nun, Helen Reddy and Dean Martin have been played! Looks like Philly really knows how to host a real specialty this weekend...shades of 80's KRTH? Sure looks that way.
Check them out: http://wogl.cbslocal.com/atoz/
94.5 KOOL - Labor Day Weekend Top 500 Countdown
101.1 WCBS - Top 500 Countdown
98.1 WOGL - Every #1 song from the 60's to the 80's in A to Z order. They are playing LOTS of pre-64's (they have started already!!) and yes "Honey" was played today at 4:16pm. Songs by Pat Boone, Highwaymen, Singing Nun, Helen Reddy and Dean Martin have been played! Looks like Philly really knows how to host a real specialty this weekend...shades of 80's KRTH? Sure looks that way.
Check them out: http://wogl.cbslocal.com/atoz/
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A very good Top 500 on KRTH so far! Hearing mainly 70's and 80's with a touch of 60's so far. And a few songs not heard too often on KRTH, like "Shadow Dancing" and "On the Dark Side" and "Couldn't Get it Right". Of course we're only at #448.
The WOGL countdown is very impressive so far as they are actually playing all the pre-64's within their 1960-1989 #1 A to Z specialty.
The WOGL countdown is very impressive so far as they are actually playing all the pre-64's within their 1960-1989 #1 A to Z specialty.
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Thomps2525
Guest
Richard Wagoner is a freelance writer whose radio column appears each Friday in the Daily News. Today he had an interesting opinion of the KRTH Top 500: "The supposed votes from supposed listeners are supposedly tabulated to come up with the Top 500 songs...If I sound cynical, it is because I doubt anyone actually tabulates any votes and the Top 500 is actually a random guess of popularity; we'll see."
If David or Michael want to challenge him---(I'm staying out of it!)---his e-mail address is [email protected]
If David or Michael want to challenge him---(I'm staying out of it!)---his e-mail address is [email protected]
I like Richard and his stuff is generally solid. I think he's off-base on this one. Unless he has proof, if I were Rick Thomas, KRTH and CBS, I'd ask for a retraction or threaten a defamation suit.
Nah. Except for a couple of exceptions, radio commentators in the (dying) press are generally well intentioned folks who principally report on other areas and do an occasional and fairly meaningless radio piece.
The exceptions are Feder in Chicago (naturally) and Rodney Ho in Atlanta.
I've done listener votes like the KRTH one. If the station already researches its music, the "voted" list will closely parallel the researched list.
I'm guessing that Mr. Wagoner expected that an unfettered listener poll would show that the station had to play a bunch of songs not normally in rotation. That is just disingenuous, and illustrates a rather shallow understanding of not just radio but of human behaviour.
T
Thomps2525
Guest
At least Wagoner added the words "We'll see." I'm anxious to see what he writes about the countdown next week. Speaking just for myself---something I'm pretty good at, at least two-thirds of the time---I've noticed a few surprises already. Well, for KRTH they're surprises: Electric Avenue, Wonderful Tonight, On The Dark Side, She Drives Me Crazy, Don't Do Me Like That...but I wonder how many pre-1964 songs will make the list. Anything other than Shout and La Bamba would also be a surprise.
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Thomps2525
Guest
Mister oldies76 mentioned Philadelphia oldies station WOGL---it's actually located in the town of Blalwal Cwynydwywdld (and I apologize if I misspelled that). WOGL is doing an "A to Z" weekend. Among the The titles just played are The Most Beautiful Girl, The Night Chicago Died, The Streak, The Stripper, The Tide Is High and The Twist. Golly gee!
http://wogl.cbslocal.com/playlist/
http://wogl.cbslocal.com/playlist/
The Way We Were 1974
The Way You Make Me Feel 1988
Theme from "A Summer Place" 1960
Theme from "Mahogany" 1976
Theme from "S.W.A.T." 1976
Sounding great over there at WOGL.
Here's the question that Michael or David could answer....two major populated cities (L.A. and Philly) Besides demographics and your audience, how is it that WOGL can get away with playing these #1 songs, but KRTH cannot?? This is a holiday weekend specialty, so testing is irrevelant. WOGL is doing what I've been asking for radio to do.....for years.
Mr. Hagerty, you are aware that Phoenix is also doing a Top 500 countdown as well. Have not kept tabs on that special, maybe Michael has.
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Thomps2525
Guest
KOOL is playing "The 500 Biggest Hits of the '60s, '70s and '80s." Really? The 500 biggest hits? Or just 500 big hits that are part of their everyday playlist? Among the songs played this afternoon are Kokomo, School's Out, Shake Your Body, I Won't Back Down, Don't Dream It's Over, and Love To Love You Baby...and I'm guessing that they didn't play the long version of that one!
The risk of damaging the brand on an extended weekend is not that significant, as listening levels are terribly low. I think the theory in Philadelphia is that doing such a broad feature weekend can build some goodwill among folks who are at the high side of the demo; I just wonder "why?" since WOGL does fairly well in 25-54... occasionally being in the top 5.
On the other hand, KRTH is not doing well, and having trouble staying in the top 15 in a market that has a younger median age and a much different ethnic composition.
Well, then if it's the biggest hits of the 60's thru the 80's, we all know what the number one song will be....."Physical", preceeded by "You Light Up My Life", "Bette Davis Eyes", "Hey Jude", "Endless Love", and "Theme From A Summer Place"....
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Thomps2525
Guest
Radio columnist Richard Wagoner has graciuously allowed me to post something that he just told me in an e-mail. He said he once asked a radio station executive about the station's annual countdowns: "Off the record, they said nothing was ever tabulated. In fact, I was told that even going back to the 1960s, no one ever counted votes. Does anyone REALLY think they take the manpower to tabulate listener votes?"
I hope that isn't true of all oldies stations. But if a station---any station---doesn't count votes, then who puts the songs in order? And using what criteria?
I hope that isn't true of all oldies stations. But if a station---any station---doesn't count votes, then who puts the songs in order? And using what criteria?
First, if a lot of votes are collected, only a tiny sample of them is needed to produce a valid list.
Second, a web poll can be tabulated without a physical count. Even with spelling errors and such, the proper software will make near matches and give a very usable result.
Back to the small sample. I've told this story several times, but it is worth another rerun: At a gold based station in a market a bit larger than LA, we did a music test with well over 1000 titles. We also did an on air tes, to show listeners that they were part of the programming. A score card was printed in the paper, and drop off points established in nearly every neighborhood (think "Ralphs" or "McDonalds" in LA) and the hooks run, with narration, on the air. 80 thousand score sheets came back. We tabulated less than 1000 via OCR, and the results were nearly identical to the 100 person music test that we paid $75 thousand dollars for. We included a blank for "Did we forget any songs... write them here" and nearly nobody filled that in... those that did included things like the National Anthem and theme songs from some hit TV shows.
So, it is quite likely that KRTH either tabulates electronically, or just tabulated a small sample of the total votes. And it's quite unlikely that they got any truly useful data, other than rank, out of the information.
And the most interesting thing about the WOGL special is that they have been playing the #1's since Monday 8/26, 5am. It will turnout to be a week-long special of alphabetical number ones from 1960 to 1989 as it will end Labor Day evening. They are even throwing in a Christmas song every few hours. They just got done playing "White Christmas" by Andy Williams. It wasn't a Hot 100 #1, unless it's on a seasonal chart.
I haven't tuned in to KOOL. If they're saying "500 of the biggest", it may or may not be a countdown.
As for KRTH and counting, polling software will give you totals and rankings. There'd be way more manpower in making up a list.
Finally, if nothing else, the widely varying approaches to Labor Day specials by 4 CBS Classic Hits stations should, I hope, put and end to the nonsense talk about consultants and corporate safe lists and illustrate just how different those four markets are.
As for KRTH and counting, polling software will give you totals and rankings. There'd be way more manpower in making up a list.
Finally, if nothing else, the widely varying approaches to Labor Day specials by 4 CBS Classic Hits stations should, I hope, put and end to the nonsense talk about consultants and corporate safe lists and illustrate just how different those four markets are.
T
Thomps2525
Guest
Mister oldies76, Billboard published a Chrisrtmas chart 1963-72 and 1983-85. Andy Williams' White Christmas was number one for five weeks in 1963. The song charted again in 1967 and reached #22. Any countdown of "greatest hits" should include White Christmas by Bing Crosby.....right?
KHJ's weekly top 30 folders always included this statement: "The listing of records herein is the opinion of KHJ based on its surveys of record sales, listener requests, and KHJ's judgment of the record's appeal." Program director Ron Jacobs has admitted that listener requests had absolutely no bearing on the playlist, the survey, or airplay. And KHJ's "judgment of the record's appeal" allows for a lot of leeway---such as playing Sammy Davis Jr.'s Candy Man for only one week before deciding that the song lacked appeal and dropping it from the playlist...and meanwhile it went to number one nationally!
Is there an implicit disclaimer in KRTH's Top 500? They can decide that certain records, even though they got a lot of votes, lack appeal and therefore are not part of the countdown?
KHJ's weekly top 30 folders always included this statement: "The listing of records herein is the opinion of KHJ based on its surveys of record sales, listener requests, and KHJ's judgment of the record's appeal." Program director Ron Jacobs has admitted that listener requests had absolutely no bearing on the playlist, the survey, or airplay. And KHJ's "judgment of the record's appeal" allows for a lot of leeway---such as playing Sammy Davis Jr.'s Candy Man for only one week before deciding that the song lacked appeal and dropping it from the playlist...and meanwhile it went to number one nationally!
Is there an implicit disclaimer in KRTH's Top 500? They can decide that certain records, even though they got a lot of votes, lack appeal and therefore are not part of the countdown?
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