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Musical selections that seem out of character

V

vchimpanzee

The local morning show on my Dial Global affiliate has a lot of oldies that I don't believe America's Best Music plays.

In the past couple of weeks, for example, "Fooled Around And Fell in Love" and "Green-Eyed Lady".
 
Don't forget that someone who was a senior in high school when "Green Eyed Lady" was current is now 60 years old. This is the music of their life, not something by Perry Como.
 
I'm working on an invention to automatically identify song versions made after 1984 and automatically replace them with another from 1957-1984. :cool:
 
vchimpanzee said:
That has nothing to do with anything.
Click to expand...

Actually, it has everything to do with everything. Even those stations that can survive on 55+ numbers can't survive on 75+. They need to get as close to the money demo as they can. I agree that "Green-Eyed Lady" and "Fooled Around" are a reach, but there will come a time when they won't be.
 
Adding songs such as "Green Eyed Lady" and "Fooled Around and Fell In Love" are pushing the envelope. Of course, so was "Goodbye To Love" in the early 1970s. The fact remains that there's music that is appropriate for standards and some which is not. When you tune in to a station with a pop-standards format, you're looking for more laid-back tunes. Sure, you might've grown up with some rock 'n' roll, but there are times when you don't want to listen to that kind of music. Now if a standards station for today was to play up-beat 'pop' music from acts such as Tony Orlando and Dawn; The Fortunes; The 5th Dimension; Tom Jones; Christopher Cross; Ray, Goodman and Brown; Hamilton, Joe Frank and Reynolds; Linda Ronstadt (excluding tracks from the album "Mad Love"); The Nitty-Gritty Dirt Band; Carole King; Olivia Newton-John and a number of others which now don't come to mind, I can see that. But I thing ti's best to leave some of the more 'raucous' material to the oldies/classic hits, etc. formats.
 
klutch00 said:
Adding songs such as "Green Eyed Lady" and "Fooled Around and Fell In Love" are pushing the envelope. Of course, so was "Goodbye To Love" in the early 1970s. The fact remains that there's music that is appropriate for standards and some which is not. When you tune in to a station with a pop-standards format, you're looking for more laid-back tunes. Sure, you might've grown up with some rock 'n' roll, but there are times when you don't want to listen to that kind of music. Now if a standards station for today was to play up-beat 'pop' music from acts such as Tony Orlando and Dawn; The Fortunes; The 5th Dimension; Tom Jones; Christopher Cross; Ray, Goodman and Brown; Hamilton, Joe Frank and Reynolds; Linda Ronstadt (excluding tracks from the album "Mad Love"); The Nitty-Gritty Dirt Band; Carole King; Olivia Newton-John and a number of others which now don't come to mind, I can see that. But I thing ti's best to leave some of the more 'raucous' material to the oldies/classic hits, etc. formats.
Click to expand...

Here's the problem:

What you describe (light 60s/70s pop mixed in with standards) is what "America's Best Music" has been doing the past few years.

Even with that, KOY in Phoenix had an average listener age of 78. Which is probably why KOY went business talk last month.

Dial Global can't lose many more like KOY and expect to stay in that format.

As I said, you want to stick as close to the money demos as possible. An average age of 60 would be great. 65 might be doable.

But not enough of those people tune in.

I played "Fooled Around and Fell In Love" as a current when I was programming AC in California. I was aiming for and getting 37 year olds.

Those people are 74 now.

In the same way that AC is no longer Celine Dion but now plays "Blurred Lines"...because AC is not a sound or a type of music, it's whatever 40-year-old women want to hear...what we've known as "Standards" will almost certainly have to take the attitude that their format is no longer a sound or a type of music, but whatever 60-year-olds want to hear, just to survive.

And since we're in the final quarter of 2013, let's base our facts on the coming new year:

Our 60 year old was born in 1954.

(S)he was too young to fully appreciate the Beatles' first impact.

(S)he was too young to attend Woodstock (though some 15-year-olds may have).

(S)he started high school in 1968 and graduated in 1972.

(S)he started college in 1972 and graduated in 1976.

Even if you go for an average age of 65, that's high school 1963-67, college 1967-71.

Suddenly, Sugarloaf and Elvin Bishop are starting to make sense.
 
And talk about timely...

Amazon founder Jeff Bezos spent some time with the staff of the newspaper he's buying, The Washington Post today. Here's just one quote from the meeting, and it fits in this thread:

“All businesses need to be young forever. If your customer base ages with you, you’re Woolworth’s,”
 
As long as rock music is around, there will always be teenagers who love the Beatles and Jimi Hendrix regardless of how old that music becomes.

The problem for us is that there is very little new soft pop music to provide that same kind of renewable listener base for classic AC/easy listening music. Michael Bublé has gone mainstream and uptempo, and it's been a decade since Norah Jones' one big hit. Maybe someday there will be a resurgence of new soft pop music, but it's definitely not looking good right now.
 
michael hagerty said:
... KOY in Phoenix had an average listener age of 78. Which is probably why KOY went business talk last month. Another major factor was that KOY's AM signal covered the Northwest and downtown Phoenix metro area pretty well but was unlistenable elsewhere. The Northwest Valley includes Sun City, Sun City West and Youngtown - all prime areas for the 78+ crowd who also listen to KAHM.

And since we're in the final quarter of 2013, let's base our facts on the coming new year:

Our 60 year old was born in 1954. 1953 give or take.

(S)he was too young to fully appreciate the Beatles' first impact. Oh no she wasn't. I have two 60-ish sisters who were both wild for the Beatles when I returned from Vietnam in '66. Their little bitty friends were too.

Suddenly, Sugarloaf and Elvin Bishop are starting to make sense. Perhaps Sugarloaf....but why this infatuation with high school and college? I do not relate songs of my youth to what year I was in school. They are either songs I like or don't like, not because they remind me of something/someone (although there are a few "we" songs in there).
Click to expand...
..
 
michael hagerty said:
And talk about timely...

Amazon founder Jeff Bezos spent some time with the staff of the newspaper he's buying, The Washington Post today. Here's just one quote from the meeting, and it fits in this thread:

“All businesses need to be young forever. If your customer base ages with you, you’re Woolworth’s,”
Click to expand...

Woolworth's went out of business for several reasons but it wasn't because they were aged out.

First, virtually all of their stores were located in downtowns and the major migration to the suburbs after WWII sealed the fate of any store that stayed only in a downtown location (in most cities). By 1960 most downtowns were in big trouble trying to hold on and compete with the new suburban shopping malls.

A major part of their business was fast food in the form of lunch counters. While this worked in downtown locations it didn't work at all in the burbs. The rise of drive-in fast food outlets catering to the car-based customer took care of that. I can also remember that most drug stores also had lunch counters which largely went away during this same time frame. Those counters provided a lot of foot traffic for the other items those stores sold.

Woolworth's was primarily a five and dime type store but they also sold a lot of items that would be considered specialties now, like fabric, sewing supplies and other accouterments of the WWII-era household. I didn't visit their stores often but don't remember that they updated their product offerings to the expanded economy that existed post-war. Their popcorn was great though. Other stores came along offering more upscale and less homemaker products and buying habits changed.

Bezos had one reason right but didn't cover all, or even the most important, bases.
 
landtuna said:
..
Click to expand...

For most people, 16-22 are the years of peak musical awareness...knowing most of what is popular at the time. Most people's musical tastes are formed during that period as well.

It's less about a specific song being from a specific time (though "this was playing for my first dance/kiss/youknowwhat" ranks high) than it is a sense of where the generations and the genres intersect.

Fact of the matter is that what "America's Best Music" is doing is still not attractive to enough 60 or even 65 year olds to make it a strong sales proposition. It's just not what most of today's 60 and 65 year olds are looking for.

Like I said, I won programming Elvin Bishop (and Steely Dan and Earth, Wind and Fire) to 37-year-olds in 1976...and they're 74 now.

KOY's signal versus KAHM wasn't the issue. They killed KAHM 65+. The problem was that average listener age...78. And that's with mid-late 70s AC music in the mix...which isn't a surprise.

It'll be interesting to see which way WestwoodOne (Dial Global's new name as of today) goes with this, especially once Cumulus gets the keys.
 
I would agree that most people's musical tastes are formed during their height of musical awareness, somewhere
between the ages of 15-25. I grew up listening to Easy listening/Beautiful Music, when other kids and young people
were listening to rock. I've loved that genre my whole life. It's one of the reasons I moved to Prescott, AZ and the
music of KAHM. Over the years, KAHM has evolved into the station it is today. Where it originally played all instrumentals,
it now has some vocals mixed in. Much like the automobile, we still drive cars today but we don't use a crank to start
them.
 
michael hagerty said:
For most people, 16-22 are the years of peak musical awareness...knowing most of what is popular at the time. Most people's musical tastes are formed during that period as well.

It's less about a specific song being from a specific time (though "this was playing for my first dance/kiss/youknowwhat" ranks high) than it is a sense of where the generations and the genres intersect.

Fact of the matter is that what "America's Best Music" is doing is still not attractive to enough 60 or even 65 year olds to make it a strong sales proposition. It's just not what most of today's 60 and 65 year olds are looking for.

Like I said, I won programming Elvin Bishop (and Steely Dan and Earth, Wind and Fire) to 37-year-olds in 1976...and they're 74 now.
Click to expand...

Am I typical? According to your statistics, probably not. In the 80's I worked with & programmed AC. Now let's look back to my teens. This much of what you said is true. It's there that I developed a love for "modern" jazz. To this day, I adore smooth jazz. But I also have an affection for 70's and 80's pop. During the 90's for some reason, as I grew older, I began seeking out standards. I had NEVER listened to the majority of them before, except for a smattering of Sinatra. Ahhh... and one more exception. For some reason I've ALWAYS enjoyed Johnny Mathis and Dionne Warwicke, and had owned their greatest hits albums. Anyway, I began tuning to "music of your life" on occasion, and had started listening to what was then the "Stardust" format. It wasn't long before I became enchanted with many of the artists. Truth was, I became tired of the "hits" that I'd played over & over on the air, and was seeking an enjoyable alternative to supplement my jazz listening. I discovered that I really like Tony Bennett, Matt Monro and yes, Perry Como! I opened my horizons to many Sinatra classics that I'd never heard before...and Nat Cole too. Today, I LOVE "America'
s Best Music". I also love the fact that they play The Carpenters, Bread, Warwicke, Mathis, Englebert Humperdink, BJ Thomas, Striesand etc. I listen to Jeff Rollins every morning, and would really miss it if it suddenly were to evolve or vanish.
Now HERE'S the kicker...................... I'm 54. Do I fit into your targeted demos?
 
RBW said:
Am I typical? According to your statistics, probably not. In the 80's I worked with & programmed AC. Now let's look back to my teens. This much of what you said is true. It's there that I developed a love for "modern" jazz. To this day, I adore smooth jazz. But I also have an affection for 70's and 80's pop. During the 90's for some reason, as I grew older, I began seeking out standards. I had NEVER listened to the majority of them before, except for a smattering of Sinatra. Ahhh... and one more exception. For some reason I've ALWAYS enjoyed Johnny Mathis and Dionne Warwicke, and had owned their greatest hits albums. Anyway, I began tuning to "music of your life" on occasion, and had started listening to what was then the "Stardust" format. It wasn't long before I became enchanted with many of the artists. Truth was, I became tired of the "hits" that I'd played over & over on the air, and was seeking an enjoyable alternative to supplement my jazz listening. I discovered that I really like Tony Bennett, Matt Monro and yes, Perry Como! I opened my horizons to many Sinatra classics that I'd never heard before...and Nat Cole too. Today, I LOVE "America'
s Best Music". I also love the fact that they play The Carpenters, Bread, Warwicke, Mathis, Englebert Humperdink, BJ Thomas, Striesand etc. I listen to Jeff Rollins every morning, and would really miss it if it suddenly were to evolve or vanish.
Now HERE'S the kicker...................... I'm 54. Do I fit into your targeted demos?
Click to expand...

No.

But then you said it yourself...you're not typical. Very few (if any) of us who programmed radio are.

I had the reverse life experience from you. I grew up loving old-line MOR and jazz (Stan Kenton, Nat Cole, Count Basie, Antonio Carlos Jobim and Burt Bacharach) and branched out into rock in my adolescence.

And then I spent 10 years as a DJ and programmer.

My listening habits have never been typical of my peer group. But as a programmer, that shouldn't surprise you.

You and I spent our 20s (and in my case and maybe yours, our teens) crafting stations that would appeal to 40-year olds.

I always have to remember that the AC sound that I loved in 1978 was for people who were 37 (we were aiming 25-49 in those days).

I was 22.

Those people that I got playing Steely Dan, Gerry Rafferty and Jackson Browne are 72 now.

And for the nostalgia format to survive, it needs an average listener age of 65...60 would be better. And there aren't enough guys your age and mine who'll listen often enough and long enough to what they're doing now.
 
KOST in Los Angeles has had an adult contemporary format since 1982. The station used to have a reputation for sounding "sleepy" but their current slogan---and format---is "Southern California's Best Soft Rock." KOST now plays a lot of songs that never made the AC charts, including Jessie's Girl, Love Is A Battlefield, Harden My Heart, Brass In Pocket, Hungry Like The Wolf and Girls Just Want To Have Fun. After reading Michael's comments, I think it's scary that Pat Benatar and Duran Duran are now considered to be "nostalgia."
 
LARadioRewind said:
KOST in Los Angeles has had an adult contemporary format since 1982. The station used to have a reputation for sounding "sleepy" but their current slogan---and format---is "Southern California's Best Soft Rock." KOST now plays a lot of songs that never made the AC charts, including Jessie's Girl, Love Is A Battlefield, Harden My Heart, Brass In Pocket, Hungry Like The Wolf and Girls Just Want To Have Fun. After reading Michael's comments, I think it's scary that Pat Benatar and Duran Duran are now considered to be "nostalgia."
Click to expand...

All but one of those came out after I moved to TV, but I played "Brass In Pocket" on the AC station I was programming in 1980.

If I'd stuck around a few more years, I'd have debated "Jessie's Girl", but probably would have played it because Rick was huge on General Hospital at the time. I can't imagine playing "Hungry Like The Wolf" on AC at the time.

But those are the only two I'd have had issues with. I'd have played Benatar, Quarterflash and Cyndi Lauper when they were new on AC.
 
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