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Places with no OTA TV?
- Thread starter BMR
- Start date
Palmdale, CA. I tried using my antenna on my portable DTV and scanned for channels and found 0 channels. OTA TV is not an option here.
Only 25 miles from Mount Wilson- I guess the terrain is just very unfriendly for TV signals.
I'm surprised somewhere that size doesn't have a relay, though.
The western US has many locations either too remote or terrain-impeded from receiving OTA signals, unless equipped with a setup that the common person cannot implement or afford. That was what gave rise to cable TV in the first place (formerly called CATV - Community Antenna TV). Many communities have had translator associations run by local government or by private organizations, but the availability and popularity of satellite TV has caused many to cease operations in the past 10-15 years. The largest community in Arizona without OTA service is Tuba City (2010 pop. 8,611). Other communities with 2,500 residents or more are:
- Wickenburg (6,363)
- Kayenta (5,189)
- Eagar (4,885)
- Whiteriver (4,104)
- Willcox (3,757)
- Quartzsite (3,677)
- St. Johns (3,480)
- Ajo (3,304)
- Parker (3,083) - K02MT is licensed and "covers" Parker, but I've never been able to receive its signal
- Superior (2,837)
- Heber-Overgaard (2,822)
I was last in Bishop about three years ago, and channel 20 (then KBBC) wasn't actually on the air, even though it had an office in town.
There had also been translators in Bishop carrying the Los Angeles Vs and KOLO-8 from Reno. I lived for a while in the next valley to the east, and OTA TV was nonexistent there - or nearly so. An interesting propagation quirk carried a very weak signal from KSBY (channel 6) in San Luis Obispo over two mountain ranges via knife-edge reflections. It wasn't really a watchable signal, but it was there most of the time, as were the FMs at that same Cuesta Peak transmitter site.
Even in the east, there are surprisingly large areas without really usable OTA TV, especially in the digital era. Much of the Hudson Valley between NYC and Albany is out of range of both markets' signals, for instance. The east end of Long Island can't see much of anything from NYC or Connecticut. Bloomington, Indiana is a little too far from Indianapolis to provide useful OTA service from the affiliates there (though there's a local PBS and acceptable OTA service from three Bloomington-licensed Indy rimshotters that use the site at Trafalgar, south of Indianapolis, which at least brings CW, ion and TBN into Bloomington.)
There had also been translators in Bishop carrying the Los Angeles Vs and KOLO-8 from Reno. I lived for a while in the next valley to the east, and OTA TV was nonexistent there - or nearly so. An interesting propagation quirk carried a very weak signal from KSBY (channel 6) in San Luis Obispo over two mountain ranges via knife-edge reflections. It wasn't really a watchable signal, but it was there most of the time, as were the FMs at that same Cuesta Peak transmitter site.
Even in the east, there are surprisingly large areas without really usable OTA TV, especially in the digital era. Much of the Hudson Valley between NYC and Albany is out of range of both markets' signals, for instance. The east end of Long Island can't see much of anything from NYC or Connecticut. Bloomington, Indiana is a little too far from Indianapolis to provide useful OTA service from the affiliates there (though there's a local PBS and acceptable OTA service from three Bloomington-licensed Indy rimshotters that use the site at Trafalgar, south of Indianapolis, which at least brings CW, ion and TBN into Bloomington.)
There are parts of the Native American reservations in South Dakota that don't get OTA anymore. Some areas get PBS repeaters from either SDPB or NET, but that's spotty at best.
I don't live that far from Mt Wilson either and I can even see downtown LA from my house on a clear day. But I have absolutely no OTA reception. Not a single channel because in in a canyon and in the shadow of the mountain range that Wilson is on. Sucks, especially because I can't get channels like ME TV , even on cable.
Just as a matter of interest, is that even with an outdoor/rooftop aerial?
I live in Chicago and get no OTA reception since 2009...LOL... I know that is not what you mean.
I lived in the Florida Keys before the digital transition and outside of a small area in Key West, which had two crummy local independents, you could not get TV south of Islamorada / Key Largo.
They supposedly had translators but no one I knew ever was able to receive them.
I lived in Marathon, half way through the Keys and we only had three FM stations Pop, Classical and Country. AM Radio was actually easy to pick up from Miami, but oddly, night time AM radio was a mess, full of static.
The funniest thing was my boss was pregnant and bought a baby monitor and it kept picking up Cuban radio stations.
I lived in the Florida Keys before the digital transition and outside of a small area in Key West, which had two crummy local independents, you could not get TV south of Islamorada / Key Largo.
They supposedly had translators but no one I knew ever was able to receive them.
I lived in Marathon, half way through the Keys and we only had three FM stations Pop, Classical and Country. AM Radio was actually easy to pick up from Miami, but oddly, night time AM radio was a mess, full of static.
The funniest thing was my boss was pregnant and bought a baby monitor and it kept picking up Cuban radio stations.
Northern Michigan (both Northern Lower and the Upper Peninsula) have very poor OTA TV coverage with some areas having no regular OTA coverage at all.
When the digital transition came, stations (with the exception of the CMU group PBS stations - who have very powerful transmitters) built their digital facilities "on the cheap", since cable and satellite penetration was already extremely high. They only care about traditional theoretical (not Longley-Rice) coverage, since that assures them of cable coverage.
Munising, at the end of a fjord on the Superior shore, has no OTA (I don't know if it ever had any)
Before WJMN (3.1/RF48) built out their Trenary facility, Manistique had no local DTV coverage, though in the summer, half of the days (during the daytime), one could watch the Milwaukee, or even Chicago, DTV stations with an antenna aimed at Lake Michigan!
The "big" cities of the Central UP (Marquette, Iron Mountain and Escanaba) are all in low-lying areas, beside (and shadowed by) a plateau where the ABC, NBC and PBS transmitters are found. In the analog days, these cities had translators, but they were shut down without being converted to digital. (WLUK, Fox 11, Green Bay, had a DTV translator in Escanaba, but I don't think it is still there). The CBS station, with it's transmitter on a low plain (near Trenary) sneaks into Escanaba and Marquette, but misses Iron Mountain.
The near-east UP is not covered by the weak DTV transmitters from the plateau, WJMN (highly directional to the West), nor from the Goetzville transmitters to the east.
The Northern Lower peninsula is not much better. I'm sure there are valleys where no OTA (or only the CMU PBS) is available.
When the digital transition came, stations (with the exception of the CMU group PBS stations - who have very powerful transmitters) built their digital facilities "on the cheap", since cable and satellite penetration was already extremely high. They only care about traditional theoretical (not Longley-Rice) coverage, since that assures them of cable coverage.
Munising, at the end of a fjord on the Superior shore, has no OTA (I don't know if it ever had any)
Before WJMN (3.1/RF48) built out their Trenary facility, Manistique had no local DTV coverage, though in the summer, half of the days (during the daytime), one could watch the Milwaukee, or even Chicago, DTV stations with an antenna aimed at Lake Michigan!
The "big" cities of the Central UP (Marquette, Iron Mountain and Escanaba) are all in low-lying areas, beside (and shadowed by) a plateau where the ABC, NBC and PBS transmitters are found. In the analog days, these cities had translators, but they were shut down without being converted to digital. (WLUK, Fox 11, Green Bay, had a DTV translator in Escanaba, but I don't think it is still there). The CBS station, with it's transmitter on a low plain (near Trenary) sneaks into Escanaba and Marquette, but misses Iron Mountain.
The near-east UP is not covered by the weak DTV transmitters from the plateau, WJMN (highly directional to the West), nor from the Goetzville transmitters to the east.
The Northern Lower peninsula is not much better. I'm sure there are valleys where no OTA (or only the CMU PBS) is available.
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Most people who live in the northeasternmost county of Minnesota, Cook County, have no OTA coverage. At one point, there were translators of the Duluth, MN stations here, but the last of these, located in Grand Marais and relaying PBS station WDSE, was turned off in 2011.
Now, some of the only people who have a chance of OTA reception are those who live on top of a hill in the southwestern portion of the county, particularly the steep hills off of the Lake Superior shoreline. The signals of the Duluth stations reach some of these areas, though only very weakly since they come from 70-100 miles away. For this reason, a large directional outdoor antenna and probably some technical know-how is necessary to be able to consistently pull in the signals. Few people outside of hobbyists even bother.
Meanwhile, some portions of the Grand Portage Indian Reservation, located in the eastern extremity of the county, are close enough to Thunder Bay, Ontario to have some chance of pulling in the three pathetically underpowered digital OTA signals coming from there nowadays. The only US station that has a remote possibility of being received here is WBKP, broadcasting from Michigan about 80 miles away across Lake Superior. Interestingly, those trying to receive any of these stations have no use for a UHF antenna, as three are on the VHF-low band and one is on VHF-high.
The situation like that in the Grand Portage Indian Reservation raises another interesting question: how many other areas are there in the US where there are basically no OTA signals available except for those originating from another country?
Now, some of the only people who have a chance of OTA reception are those who live on top of a hill in the southwestern portion of the county, particularly the steep hills off of the Lake Superior shoreline. The signals of the Duluth stations reach some of these areas, though only very weakly since they come from 70-100 miles away. For this reason, a large directional outdoor antenna and probably some technical know-how is necessary to be able to consistently pull in the signals. Few people outside of hobbyists even bother.
Meanwhile, some portions of the Grand Portage Indian Reservation, located in the eastern extremity of the county, are close enough to Thunder Bay, Ontario to have some chance of pulling in the three pathetically underpowered digital OTA signals coming from there nowadays. The only US station that has a remote possibility of being received here is WBKP, broadcasting from Michigan about 80 miles away across Lake Superior. Interestingly, those trying to receive any of these stations have no use for a UHF antenna, as three are on the VHF-low band and one is on VHF-high.
The situation like that in the Grand Portage Indian Reservation raises another interesting question: how many other areas are there in the US where there are basically no OTA signals available except for those originating from another country?
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Since making my last post, I remembered another area of Minnesota with no OTA coverage - the Northwest Angle, a unique exclave of the United States that is the northernmost piece of land within the contiguous United States. There are translators of the Fargo, ND stations about 35 miles to the south, but they don't quite reach the area where the 200 or so year-round residents of "The Angle" live. In addition, there used to be a CBC Winnipeg translator viewable here, but that was turned off in the massive CBC translator purge of 2012.
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