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Daytime Skywave At High Solar Noon-WSM, WHAS

S

Schroedingers Cat

I was flipping around the dial in the car and heard Country on WSM 650 and an ID on my car radio near Sterling Heights, MI. It was 1:30 PM EDT, which in this area is High Solar Noon. This is something more like one would see in December. I checked the Expanded Band, but there were no skywaves to speak of. I checked CIWW 1310, which was the most consistent daytime skywave last winter, but it wasn't there, even though it was there last night.

Then I thought, somebody is rebroadcasting the internet stream on 650 with a "Part 15" transmitter. But it was fading in and out. I flipped around to try to find another skywave. Finally, I heard the ID for WHAS 840, which was also coming in. So either they were running two streams and Part 15 transmitters, or it was really coming in over the air.

I'd say that these were in the 50-100 µV/m range, WHAS was nearer to 50 µV/m, WSM was nearer to 100 µV/m. Neither comes in at all under normal daytime circumstances, except maybe at <5 µV/m groundwave with a preamp on a long wire, or a small loop.
 
Update:

About 4:45 PM, which would be barely into the critical hours period, WSM was still coming in but not as strong. WHAS was lost in noise, WQEW 1560 was coming in, CIWW 1310, and WDDZ 1250 were others coming in.
 
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Good DX! Winter is coming, way too fast in my opinion.

-crainbebo
 
I envy all you up north because daytime AM skywave is a rarity down here, except for the X band.

When I was living up in Jersey, it was interesting to hear some of the nighttime regulars sometimes start to show up in the middle of the afternoon in winter.

It was amazing when I first discovered WKBW Buffalo in the afternoon when I thought it was only possible to hear at night.

One thing I always noticed, though, is that the opposite doesn't happen in the morning after the sun comes up. Not long after the sun is up, the nighttime AM's vanish quickly and don't hang around the same equal time as they start to come in before sunset.

Anyone else also notice this?
 
gar fla said:
. Not long after the sun is up, the nighttime AM's vanish quickly and don't hang around the same equal time as they start to come in before sunset.

Anyone else also notice this?
Click to expand...

More often than not (but not always), yes.
 
Even in Charleston there is daytime skywave. I've heard WSM as early as 4pm on an April day here, and I have heard it at noon in December several times. I have also heard WCBS that way. I have heard KMOX as late as 9:15am on a December morning here.

Also late in the year WAGL holds in on 1560 (standards format) all day in a lot of places in SC, GA and even north FL. You should try for it.
 
gar fla said:
I envy all you up north because daytime AM skywave is a rarity down here, except for the X band.

When I was living up in Jersey, it was interesting to hear some of the nighttime regulars sometimes start to show up in the middle of the afternoon in winter.

It was amazing when I first discovered WKBW Buffalo in the afternoon when I thought it was only possible to hear at night.

One thing I always noticed, though, is that the opposite doesn't happen in the morning after the sun comes up. Not long after the sun is up, the nighttime AM's vanish quickly and don't hang around the same equal time as they start to come in before sunset.

Anyone else also notice this?
Click to expand...

I missed this kind of DXing during the 26 months I lived in Texas. I did notice some late afternoon skywave there, such as from the two Texas 1700s and some Louisiana station up around 1680 that I think advertised itself as oldies. But I completely agree that it's nothing like it is up here. I remember one time being flabbergasted at hearing AM 1000 from Chicago at 3 p.m. my time one December or January several years ago, and it didn't fade. I listened for almost an hour to their programming, which I enjoyed anyway given my sports allegiances.
WBZ is usually in here before 4 in the winter. It's one reason I love switching the clocks back!
 
1680 was KRJO in Monroe, LA. Believe it's classic country, it used to be gospel music.

-crainbebo
 
Daytime skywave adventures from back in Ohio included WBZ at high noon, KXEL and WLAC lasting all day, WSB and the 640 in the Memphis market. Best day I ever had (though I was mobile and didn't get a lot IDed and written down) was a trip between Knoxville and Nashville. The band just never closed for that January day. I had interference in 1330 in Crossville within the county, WCKY Cincinnati in all day, and interference on WLAC in it's own county. Parked in a Nashville suburb/exurb, I got both WHIO (1290) and WING (1410) from Dayton positively IDed at 2pm Central/3pm Eastern.
 
That's the interesting thing about true daytime skywave. There's no protection from cochannels that are 300-400 miles away. Within about 250 miles, there may be some groundwave protection that provides skywave protection also. I had an email exchange with one of the leading consulting engineers, and he didn't disagree that the angles of departure for daytime skywave are closer to horizontal than they are at night, so groundwave and skywave patterns are closer to the same. But for 300-600 miles away, they may be nondirectional, or even send a major lobe right at a former Class I-A or I-B, or Class III-A or III-B. I used to hear WBZ during the middle of the day before they broke up the 1030 channel with daytimers.
 
I also received WBZ several times during mid day winter skywave in the Chicago area. One December day I remember very well in the 70s I received WABC, WCBS, WHAM, WBZ, KDKA among others around noon in the Northern Chicago suburbs.
 
Looking at Doug Vernier's Zip Code utility, it might be easier to get WCBS next to WLS, but difficult to get WABC next to WBBM, and WHAM next to WYLL/WJJD, and perhaps KDKA next to WMVP/WCFL, depending on which northern suburb of Chicago you were located in.

Does anyone remember the WLS (or possibly WENR) tower being in Downers Grove before they moved to Mokena/Tinley Park? I just saw that somewhere. Was it at the current WMVP/WCFL site? I think it was listed as 5000 watts at that time.
 
I've had some daytime skywave experiences myself. Atop the Niagara Escarpment northwest of Toronto I can quite often hear AMs from all around the Midwest and Northeastern United States, including Chicago, Cleveland and New York City on cold, clear winter days. My most notable catch was Fort Wayne's 1190 WOWO which hasn't been a full time 50KW class A since the late 1990s. At my house located at ground level west of Toronto, I've witnessed some unpleasant co channel interference between semi-local/wannabe local daytimer WTOR (Youngstown, NY) and WABC New York between roughly 8:00 PM to 9:00 PM in the height of the summer in spite of the fact that sunset doesn't fully get into swing until between 9:15 to 9:30 PM.
 
Last Tuesday, two days before Thanksgiving, WLAC (1510/Nashville) was blasting into Columbus, Ohio loud and clear shortly after 3 p.m. local time, so only 2 in Nashville. Not even WMVP and WBZ were getting in here yet. It was right about two hours before local sunset, which is approximately 5:10 p.m. this time of year.
The only other non-local signal I remember hearing on the high part of the band was WVON on 1690. Not even WCKY, from about 110 miles away, was real listenable.
 
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