J
Jul
Guest
What are the chances that WGAL -TV 8 winding up on comcast, FIOS and other cable and satellite systems in the city of Philadelphia and in the western suburbs?
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WGAL-TV 8 is the NBC affil for Central PA, including Harrisburg and Lancaster(WGAL's city of license).
The Comcast Coatsville, Chester County headend which includes West Goshen has WGAL. The Malvern headend does not have it. I guess those two Comcast headends in Chester County are the dividing line who does and who doesn't have it. If you have DirecTv in the Philly DMA, you get WMGM but, via cable, I don't think WMGM makes it to Comcast-Garden State Cable. FiOS must carry both channels close to Lancaster or Wildwood/Atlantic City.
WMGM holds the affiliation because it's been an NBC affiliate practically forever. 47 years, to be exact, 29 years longer than WCAU.
It dates back to the days before KYW could be received at the shore, the same reason that WFPG-TV was affiliated with all four networks during its time and WRBV-TV was briefly affiliated with ABC (the affiliation was canceled before the station hit the air). The Philadelphia stations couldn't be seen at the shore while the New Jersey stations could.
With increased cable penetration and improved signals from Roxborough, the need for network affiliates in Atlantic and Cape May counties disappeared, but NBC had no interest in pulling the affiliation from WMGM-TV. In fact, once it stopped getting its NBC feed via coax from KYW and started pulling it from the bird, 40 had a better track record for clearing network shows than 3 did!
It dates back to the days before KYW could be received at the shore, the same reason that WFPG-TV was affiliated with all four networks during its time and WRBV-TV was briefly affiliated with ABC (the affiliation was canceled before the station hit the air). The Philadelphia stations couldn't be seen at the shore while the New Jersey stations could.
With increased cable penetration and improved signals from Roxborough, the need for network affiliates in Atlantic and Cape May counties disappeared, but NBC had no interest in pulling the affiliation from WMGM-TV. In fact, once it stopped getting its NBC feed via coax from KYW and started pulling it from the bird, 40 had a better track record for clearing network shows than 3 did!
That has to do with an archaic rule that a cable company must-carry the closest network affiliate of a network. Coatesville is 26 miles as the crow flies to Lancaster, while Coatesville is 36 miles from Philadelphia. For Malvern, the Lancaster distance is greater. The same thing with Dover getting the Salisbury, MD stations.
WGAL actually transmits west of Lancaster, but COL is used.
This is essentially used to ensure situations like the Sarasota ABC affiliate keeping cable coverage and not losing coverage in favor of the Tampa one, on the Sarasota cable system, but the indirect effect is situations like these where Coatesville and Reading have WGAL on their lineups. But it's must-carry. Hearst isn't getting retransmission revenue from these viewers, nor does WGAL target them.
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A network can certainly pull an affiliation even if the affiliation was a long standing one. KRON comes to mind.
Even prior to Comcast ownership, WCAU has had blanket coverage for the entire DMA and received retrans revenue from not only Comcast, but Dish and DirecTV. WMGM for the most part is a station relying on must-carry even in Atlantic and Cape May counties.
Now, not only does Comcast compete against WMGM in the local advertising in Atlantic County (a local store can choose to advertise on WMGM or Comcast), but it is the network in the affiliate arrangement for them.
WWSI is becoming an Comcast/NBC O&O station could easily rebroadcast WCAU's signal on a subchannel of WWSI for OTA coverage in Atlantic City, although it wouldn't cover Wildwood.
I think it'd be petty for Comcast to end the affiliation arrangement and there wouldn't be really any significant value gained in that process. What Comcast needs to do is figure out how to make NBC a strong network including re-hauling the Thursday night lineup, rather than trying to monopolize SE NJ and make it difficult for businesses to advertise on television other than on Comcast cable.
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J
Jul
Guest
So I guess that means that no WGAL in Philly. If that headend did get WGAL, would it be a must carry in Philly on comcast?
Not only west of Lancaster, but west of Wrightsville.
https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.034444,-76.618889&q=loc:40.034444,-76.618889&hl=en&t=m&z=18
ixnay
J
Jul
Guest
I have a gut feeling that cable and satellite systems in Eastern PA that includes areas like the Lehigh Valley Chester, Philadelphia will add WGAL to their lineups in the future. In other words, their cable coverage should be increased since they have a huge signal.
J
Jul
Guest
I got this e-mail from someone from the FCC about WGAL
My question was "I would like the FCC to get WGAL-TV 8's cable coverage increased so that more cable and satellite systems in other markets including Philadelphia can add WGAL-TV and its digital subchannel to all of their lineups on the SD and HD feeds ASAP. For some reason folks in Chester County, the lehigh Valley and Philadelphia can't get this channel on cable and they should on all cable and satellite systems including Fios. I hope the FCC can get involved in this issue so that more areas can get WGAL-TV and its digital subchannels. Thanks "
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FredLeonard
Guest
Julius: What is it on channel 8 that you want to see that you can't see already on WCAU channel 10? Seriously. OK, maybe the syndicated line-ups aren't identical but syndicated shows on channel 8 are still available in Philly. I doubt you're interested in seeing local news from Lancaster. Back in the day, NBC had a baseball game of the week, which was blacked out in major league cities, and some people wanted to see that but otherwise...
When cable was new, they used to offer a lot of out of market channels. Now, TV in all markets is running almost all the same programming. Even superstations are mostly gone. And there are all those cable channels. There seems little point to out of market OTA channels now.
When cable was new, they used to offer a lot of out of market channels. Now, TV in all markets is running almost all the same programming. Even superstations are mostly gone. And there are all those cable channels. There seems little point to out of market OTA channels now.
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FredLeonard
Guest
Yes, that is correct. The Steinman family owned the Lancaster Intelligencer Journal and New Era, plus some weeklies, and started WGAL radio and TV channel eight, which had a monopoly in the region through most of the 50s. They also bought the NBC affiliate in Wilmington, DE to cut it's power and then move it to channel 12 (before selling it off) so they could increase channel eight's coverage. They have since sold their other properties but kept their radio stations in Delaware and continue to operate the morning Intelligencer.
J
Jul
Guest
I would like to see their newscasts and special programming that WGAL has.
J
Jul
Guest
their newscasts and programming.
Perhaps some reader to this site who has a VCR and gets WGAL might record some WGAL newscasts for Julius. VCRs may be outmoded technology but I miss being able to record TV programs and watch them later in a different location or trade them with friends. Luckily I still have a VCR at home and one at the vacation cottage where we don't have cable, so I can record TV shows to bring with me. You can't do that with a DVR.
While I was in Baltimore some years ago, I disconnected the cable from the hotel TV set and hooked up some lightweight rabbit ears to the TV, just to see what was available over the air. And WGAL came in, a bit fuzzy, but watchable, along with local Baltimore stations. I'm guessing that as soon as you cross the PA-MD line, cable systems probably don't carry WGAL or any other PA TV stations, such as the Fox station in York, even though they are available over the air. That's a big switch from the early days of cable, where there was HBO, ESPN, WTBS and not much else available to cable systems. My friend was living in Jackson, Michigan and got network affiliates for THREE markets, Lansing (his actual market), Detroit and Grand Rapids.
In this era of hundreds of cable networks begging each cable operator to carry them, or coercing them to carry them if you want their popular sister channels, few cable systems want to carry out-of-market broadcast signals. In some cases they've been grandfathered, or as the case with Coatesville PA, the out-of-market WGAL is actually closer than WCAU Philadelphia. But Julius' contention that WGAL can be picked up over the air in many communities in the Philadelphia market is irrelevant. I'm sure cable operators would say they already have to carry small religion or shopping channels due to must-carry rules and have no space for out-of-market signals they're not required to carry.
While I was in Baltimore some years ago, I disconnected the cable from the hotel TV set and hooked up some lightweight rabbit ears to the TV, just to see what was available over the air. And WGAL came in, a bit fuzzy, but watchable, along with local Baltimore stations. I'm guessing that as soon as you cross the PA-MD line, cable systems probably don't carry WGAL or any other PA TV stations, such as the Fox station in York, even though they are available over the air. That's a big switch from the early days of cable, where there was HBO, ESPN, WTBS and not much else available to cable systems. My friend was living in Jackson, Michigan and got network affiliates for THREE markets, Lansing (his actual market), Detroit and Grand Rapids.
In this era of hundreds of cable networks begging each cable operator to carry them, or coercing them to carry them if you want their popular sister channels, few cable systems want to carry out-of-market broadcast signals. In some cases they've been grandfathered, or as the case with Coatesville PA, the out-of-market WGAL is actually closer than WCAU Philadelphia. But Julius' contention that WGAL can be picked up over the air in many communities in the Philadelphia market is irrelevant. I'm sure cable operators would say they already have to carry small religion or shopping channels due to must-carry rules and have no space for out-of-market signals they're not required to carry.
J
Jul
Guest
what if WGAL increases its signal power to cover the 5 county Philadelphia area, will cable systems have to carry WGAL? https://stations.fcc.gov/station-profile/wgal/contour-maps/
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