Latest NYC Ratings

[Bruce Slutsky]

See http://ratings.****************/cgi-bin/rol.exe/arb001

WCBS-FM is slipping

Bruce

 

[John Pine]

Probably fatigue from all the burnouts they play.

 

[davideduardo]

Probably fatigue from all the burnouts they play.

And even more likely statistical wobble within the normal range of that station.

CBS-FM continues to cume the same 3.3 million to 3.4 million listeners every week and is amazingly flat in cume.

 

[thataveragejoe]

And even more likely statistical wobble within the normal range of that station.

CBS-FM continues to cume the same 3.3 million to 3.4 million listeners every week and is amazingly flat in cume.

4 months of declines is not a statistical wobble, cume may be flat, but its listeners are listening less, which is what is interesting.

Elsewhere the Nash slide into the abyss continues...

 

[Jeffrey]

WNSH's floundering ratings is no surprise after the 10 years of "country doesn't work in NY threads" on this board.

WBLS is doing very well! I wonder if we might see competition sooner or later. On the other hand hip, hop continues to stumble in New York. We either have horrendous hip, hop stations or hip, hop is really taking a fall. I don't see it so much in other markets so I'm curious.......

 

[benale]

I also wonder if WBLS will see some competition. WRKS always did well,but they were jettisoned a year and a half ago for ESPN, with ratings nowhere near what WRKS had. KHHT in LA and WRNB in Philly run an "old school" format featuring 70's and 80's soul music. I wonder if Jammin' Oldies was ahead of it's time. It would be nice to have that as an alternative to the very young skewing WWPR and WQHT.

 

[dcowboy7]

NASH cume actually went up.

 

[thataveragejoe]

NASH cume actually went up.

The only place Nash is doing anything interesting is in the embedded MSU market, which is where the cume gains really are. They've coughed up ground in N-S, now even out cumed by a Spanish station. Yeah yeah...weak signal east, bla bla... Fact is the station is going nowhere really almost a year on now. It will live on to serve it's purpose but its not really working, as has been proven time and again before with country and NYC. I'll listen from time to time, but I'm still no fan of the morning show.

 

[MTNProductions]

Looks like CBS-FM is continuing to slip from 5.5 to 5.1. The station is down a bit further. With WLTW's "Lite-FM" started playing Christmas music to go straight to the roof, I have airchecks from last year when WGNY's "Fox Oldies" was running a 36-hour marathon of playing Christmas music from 12:00 PM noon Christmas Eve and continued all the way through 12:00 AM Christmas night. It plays the same old Christmas music just like "Lite-FM", WCBS-FM and other competing stations that plays Christmas music all over the place. I will do that as soon as I come back.

WCBS-FM needs to go back to its roots of playing nothing but the 50's and early 60's music. Look at WGNY-FM's "Fox Oldies" and WROW's "Magic 590" in Albany, they're now playing pre-1964 music just like the way it sounded on WCBS-FM during the first 33 years as "New York's Oldies Station" (1972-2005). I listened to "Fox Oldies" now and they're playing "My Boy Lollipop" by Millie Small, "Calendar Girl" by Neil Sedaka, and "Along Came Joe" by the Coasters. Right now, I'm listening to "Message to Michael" by Dionne Warwick on "Fox Oldies", it is a song that usually played on WCBS-FM a long ago when it was an oldies station in NYC during the Joe McCoy era. But I wish CBS-FM needs to plays a lot more 50's rock & roll and doo-wop in the mix. If not, CBS-FM decides that they're start going to add 90's music in the mix for example "Vogue" by Madonna, "Hero" by Mariah Carey, "I'm the Only One" by Melissa Ethridge, "All I Gotta Do" by Sheryl Crow and "Zombie" by the Cranberries. Those are now classics from the 90's. Are they're going to play a lot of 1955-1963 music on CBS-FM like "Fox Oldies" and "Magic 590" did? I guess so, or if not, NYC needs another oldies station on AM to bring in listeners over 55+ years old. Maybe if they end up on other frequencies like WSNR 620. A lot of AM stations on 620 are running too much brokered programming, and maybe WQEW will get out of "Radio Disney". Look at other stations like WDDY in Albany, they pulled the plug on "Radio Disney" a few months ago since the station was sold to Christian broadcasting. I don't see WQEW pulling the plug on "Radio Disney" anytime soon. The station has been on for 15 years since the staton dumped standards to "Radio Disney" back on December 27th, 1998. WMTR in Morristown, NJ does oldies like "Fox Oldies" in Rosendale and "Magic 590" in Albany does the same thing. I guess that New York City never had an oldies station at the moment, but maybe oldies might end up somewhere on AM if they can bring some longtime CBS-FM loyal listeners to listen to it. "Fox Oldies" and "Magic 590" are the two oldies stations that now has an audience that lot of longtime oldies fans of WCBS-FM from the past who grew up with Harry Harrison, Ron Lundy, Bill Brown, Bob Shannon, Bobby Jay, Norm N Nite, Dan Taylor, Dan Daniel, Cousin Bruce Morrow, Don K Reed, Dan Ingram, Mike McCann and many great jocks from the last 33 years in its existence.

Just to back away from CBS-FM, WNSH's is continue to struggle as a country which it now runs "Nash" as a brand, but it does really bills well as part of the Cumulus. Meanwhile, in Poughkeepsie, WKXP/WZAD's "The Wolf" is no longer a Cumulus station, it is now Townsquare and they've just pulled the plug on "CMT Radio Live" with Cody Allen, "American Country Countdown" with Kicks Brooks and "Kickin' It With Kicks", which is now going to be heard on "Nash" at 94.7. They're adding a new show called "A Taste of a Country Nights" with Jeremy Robinson replacing "CMT Radio Live" and this show is produced by Townsquare which it owns the syndicated show. Last night, I looked up on one of the ex-Cumulus station's sites that it is now updated with a new look and a new stream called Radiopup which replacing iHeartRadio which all of Cumulus stations has been using iHeartRadio for 2 years, but it is going to end very soon, "The Wolf" now running Radiopup where they added new Poughkeepsie stations in the mix after moving out of iHeartRadio. All of Cumulus stations has been running iHeartRadio will transfer to Rdio by next year since it is part of the Cumulus deal with Rdio back in September.

What's going to happen if the December ratings are going to come out? Will find out what happens.

 

[davideduardo]

WCBS-FM needs to go back to its roots of playing nothing but the 50's and early 60's music.

As has been explained before, this is not going to happen. New York is the most transactional market in the country... meaning business is placed, mostly by agencies, based on ratings and target age groups.

Agencies and clients that buy by numbers essentially buy nothing over age 55. For the infrequent 35-64 buys, the news stations sweep the money off the table.

50's music appeals to people who are 70s and older. Early 60's appeals mostly to folks over 65. None of those groups gets ad buys. So there is no way to support a 50's and early 60's based or flavored radio station. With no revenue, there is no base for a commercial station.

 

[MTNProductions]

As has been explained before, this is not going to happen. New York is the most transactional market in the country... meaning business is placed, mostly by agencies, based on ratings and target age groups.

Agencies and clients that buy by numbers essentially buy nothing over age 55. For the infrequent 35-64 buys, the news stations sweep the money off the table.

50's music appeals to people who are 70s and older. Early 60's appeals mostly to folks over 65. None of those groups gets ad buys. So there is no way to support a 50's and early 60's based or flavored radio station. With no revenue, there is no base for a commercial station.

.

Thanks for the comment. If you want an oldies station that appeals to people who are 65 or 70, I recommend the two stations that are out of the market such as WGNY's "Fox Oldies" at 98.9 in the Poughkeepsie area or WROW's "Magic 590" in Albany where they are now playing oldies after dumping standards a few weeks back. Or you should try satellite radio such as Sirius/XM to get your oldies fix like "50's on 5" and "60's on 6" and one of the Music Choice channels.

There's streaming like Rewound Radio or any of the stations that are using TuneIn. I have "Fox Oldies" on my TuneIn so I can hear the music that you don't hear on CBS-FM anymore like Connie Francis "Everybody Somebody's Fool", Lesley Gore's "It's My Party", the Skyliners "Since I Don't Have You" and others mixed with loads of AOR and classic rock songs that you don't expect to hear on NYC radio anymore like WNEW-FM. Last night when I was listening to "Fox Oldies", I've heard "Next Door to An Angel" by Neil Sedaka and it was an oldie song from the early 60's and that was the song that CBS-FM used to play that song back it was an oldies station. A lot of these that CBS-FM used to play for years can be heard on either "Fox Oldies" or "Magic 590" or both stations that are playing oldies. The only song that "Fox Oldies" does not play is "Morse Code of Love" by the Capris. That song is still a doo-wop classic since it first came out in 1982, and it does sounded a lot like a 50's song. CBS-FM used to play that song a lot during its heyday as an oldies station since Joe McCoy was a PD of the station. If you look at CBS-FM, it went to #1 for most of its years and Joe McCoy won a lot of awards while he was a PD at CBS-FM. I missed CBS-FM when it was oldies, but now, CBS-FM went to classic hits after dumping "Jack" for the past two years due to poor ratings. The station is doing well, but it is slipping even further. But don't expect to see another oldies station in NYC anytime soon. The only place to get your oldies fix is satellite radio, TuneIn and one of the Music Choice channels. That's all there is to it.

 

[JPlainJohn]

The Small Group of very vocal Die Hard Oldies Fans will never "get it" but David is 100% Correct and Chris,The Good Guy-some great suggestions. I tried to Program a smaller market Oldies Station and decided on going uptempo 60's with lighter 70's & 80's rotations up to around mid-80's..the 70's and 80's Portion a mostly "Classic Hits" feel with Starship,Hall & Oates...tried dropping the slower stuff and ballads in favor of The Beatles,Stones,Animals etc,etc,etc....the owner was a Die Hard Oldies Fan so to accomadate him I left in the "Rock Around the Clock","At The Hop"...any of the Up-Tempo Dance 50's/Early 60's and we were starting to get some local Ad-Buys when he decided to fire me,toss out the harder edge music,cut if off at around '75 and put a ton of the Ballad stuff of the 50's,60's and early 70's back in that I had removed and by doing that has basically dried up his ad revenue...Would have loved to see if he would have stayed the course I firmly believe he could have been SOLD-OUT for this Christmas.

 

[TonyOldies]

As has been explained before, this is not going to happen. New York is the most transactional market in the country... meaning business is placed, mostly by agencies, based on ratings and target age groups.

Agencies and clients that buy by numbers essentially buy nothing over age 55. For the infrequent 35-64 buys, the news stations sweep the money off the table.

50's music appeals to people who are 70s and older. Early 60's appeals mostly to folks over 65. None of those groups gets ad buys. So there is no way to support a 50's and early 60's based or flavored radio station. With no revenue, there is no base for a commercial station.

Your assumption that 50's music appeals to people in their 70's is not entirely accurate. Where is it written that you had to be alive in that era to enjoy that music? I'm in my early 50s and I love music from 50s, 60's and 70's. This is a common assumption that quite frankly is not accurate.

 

[Unregistered]

There are almost always going to be exceptions or andecdotal personal stories, but you can't build a business that way. When the research essentially universally tells you the audience isn't there in large enough numbers to be viable, you kind of need to accept the data, don't you?

 

[Jeffrey]

Your assumption that 50's music appeals to people in their 70's is not entirely accurate. Where is it written that you had to be alive in that era to enjoy that music? I'm in my early 50s and I love music from 50s, 60's and 70's. This is a common assumption that quite frankly is not accurate.

So based on your post you're saying an oldies radio station playing music from the 50's, 60's and 70's would bill well because it would attract a young enough audience?

 

[davideduardo]

Your assumption that 50's music appeals to people in their 70's is not entirely accurate.

I am saying that as a fact, not an assumption. Stations that play 50's and 60's oldies have mostly listeners over 55.

You are the exception to the rule.

 

[John Pine]

Ahh..Morse Code of Love...B103 used to play that song in their early days, sadly they dropped all the doo-wop sounding stuff too. Only station that still plays some of it that I've heard is WJRZ, they'll play some Turtles and some of those other groups. CBS-FM has now added voicerovers they play the 60s,70s, and 80s, but I hardly hear any 60s, too many 70s & 80s burnouts is the main issue, how much of Hit Me With Your Best shot can you stand? Play We Belong for a change? At least B103 isn't as repetitive. Right now CBS still makes $$ but if they keep this up the numbers will only go down. Only more will tune out everytime they hear the same Steve Miller & Pat Benetar songs they heard the day before. They've got to vary it a bit, play some more 60s, and dont treat Doo-Wop like the plaugue, for goodness sake, Morse Code of Love was actually recorded in the 80s! I think WJRZ is actually the best example I've heard of a decent oldies or classic hits recently, 60s make up a decent portion of the playlist and they're not afraid to play The Four Seasons older stuff like Cmmon Maryann or Rag Doll. CBS needs to at least recognize it's roots!

 

[John Pine]

I am saying that as a fact, not an assumption. Stations that play 50's and 60's oldies have mostly listeners over 55.

You are the exception to the rule.

Well I guess I'm another exception as well. Most of my friends who are in their 20s and 30s abhor today's pop music and listen to 60s-90s rock oriented stuff from the British Invasion, Hair Bands, and Alternative Rock. Radio's obsession with young demos is going to kill the industry. And the funny thing is, younger teenagers and 20 somethings are gonna use their Smartphones and internet radio more than older folks who grew up listening to the medium.

 

[davideduardo]

Radio's obsession with young demos is going to kill the industry.

Radio has no such obsession. Radio focuses on formats that appeal to persons between 18 and 54 years of age, because essentially all ad buys come down for different segments of that broad adult demo.

If there were buys for 55-64, there would be stations focusing on that age group. If there were teen buys, there would be teen stations.

 

[BigJimmy]

I doubt Rush & Hannity or a new am---drive host willl help the WOR ratings much.
I don;'t see help on the horizon for WABC or WNYM either,
These 3 of stations are likely doomed to low ratings ---- airing talk, infomercials & some sports games.