Station vs. personal library size

[PirateJohnny]

I'm curious about the listening habits of the focus group participants for Classic Hits stations. Do they listen to their own music collection at home or in the car. Do they have in their personal home library more or less than the "recommended" 800 songs a station should have?

Now, about the people who have left radio for their own collection. Do they have more or less than 800 songs in their personal home library? Did they leave radio because radio played too many songs or not enough songs?

Why not assemble a focus group of former listeners to find out what it would take to get them to tune in again (more good songs less often or fewer good songs more often)?

In several forums not at all related to radio I keep seeing the complaint that "oldies" radio plays the same few songs over and over again.

 

[Avid Listener]

I'm curious about the listening habits of the focus group participants for Classic Hits stations. Do they listen to their own music collection at home or in the car. Do they have in their personal home library more or less than the "recommended" 800 songs a station should have?

Now, about the people who have left radio for their own collection. Do they have more or less than 800 songs in their personal home library? Did they leave radio because radio played too many songs or not enough songs?

Why not assemble a focus group of former listeners to find out what it would take to get them to tune in again (more good songs less often or fewer good songs more often)?

In several forums not at all related to radio I keep seeing the complaint that "oldies" radio plays the same few songs over and over again.

Assembling a focus group would probably not result in obtaining any meaningful data. Focus groups are a means to validate decisions that are already made, so that those making the decision can always fall back on "But we tested it!" as a defense in case it fails. Instead of attempting to gather a group for some sort of "group think" exercise like a focus group, maybe radio executives should read online forums like these.

 

[davideduardo]

I'm curious about the listening habits of the focus group participants for Classic Hits stations. Do they listen to their own music collection at home or in the car. Do they have in their personal home library more or less than the "recommended" 800 songs a station should have?

There is a description of a music test at http://www.americanradiohistory.com/research_AMT.htm

Such sessions are not "focus groups". A focus group is a moderated chat session. A music test is a group of people who either gather all at once, in smaller groups or even online to listen to snippets of a predetermined list of songs which they score.

There is no "recommended" library size. The library will be determined by local or collective music research and will self-define the number of songs.

Now, about the people who have left radio for their own collection.

Since 93% to 94% of people use radio, tests generally include only people who use local radio enough to be able to define their listening habits.

Do they have more or less than 800 songs in their personal home library?

It does not matter. Broadcast radio has a model of pleasing lots of people at the same time. Differences in individual taste are not considered as radio tries to play songs that nearly all potential listeners like.

Did they leave radio because radio played too many songs or not enough songs?

There is nothing classic hits radio can do in these rare cases because of the "one for all" model of broadcasting.

Why not assemble a focus group of former listeners to find out what it would take to get them to tune in again (more good songs less often or fewer good songs more often)?

The BBM in Canada did a study of the 5% to 6% of people who don't use radio in the average week. In general, few did not use radio because they did not like the choices; they did not listen due to travel, illness, family emergencies, long work schedules, etc.

Trying to please the few who listen less time or not at all generally means not pleasing the heavy listening core and is highly destructive.

 

[davideduardo]

Assembling a focus group would probably not result in obtaining any meaningful data. Focus groups are a means to validate decisions that are already made, so that those making the decision can always fall back on "But we tested it!" as a defense in case it fails. Instead of attempting to gather a group for some sort of "group think" exercise like a focus group, maybe radio executives should read online forums like these.

Focus groups are not used to test songs. A focus group is a perceptual research tool, and in radio is used to do things like to find out why listeners like your station or its competitors, to measure appeal, strengths and weaknesses of shows, etc. They can be used to spot format openings or just to do a health check on a successful radio station.

Online forums, as interesting as they are for radio geeks, don't represent a good cross section of average, quarter-hour contributing listeners.

 

[PirateJohnny]

Test panels, focus groups, Army troops, hula hoops. Sorry I used the wrong term. I've heard comments at non-radio events (classic car shows, for one) that the local oldies stations keep playing the same songs over and over. These people aren't radio geeks.

I'm slowly coming around to the fact that the audience advertisers want to reach is so fickle that even though they liked the last ten songs, they will change stations because of one song and risk missing ten more they like. There used be something else that kept them tuned in even thought they didn't like one song - live DJs who were as much fun to listen to as the music.

It appears that people listen to the "morning zoo crews" who talk on and on and rarely play music. They'll talk for minutes at a time and keep an audience. But a DJ who talks for 15 seconds and plays wall to wall music can't attract an audience? Listeners want talking for minutes at a time or music with no talk? Really?

 

[TheBigA]

whoops

 

[TheBigA]

Listeners want talking for minutes at a time or music with no talk? Really?

It depends on the format, time of day, and the particular DJ. And what the listener is doing at the time. Lots of variables.

Anyone who listens to an oldies station, and is hearing the same songs should try another format. It's really very simple.

That's the basic problem with Oldies as a format. No matter how many songs in the library, sooner or later, you're playing the same songs. Why? Because there are no currents or recurrents mixed in. It's those currents and recurrents, when mixed in to an AC format, that give it some texture and delay the repetition.

 

[firepoint525]

Test panels, focus groups, Army troops, hula hoops. Sorry I used the wrong term. I've heard comments at non-radio events (classic car shows, for one) that the local oldies stations keep playing the same songs over and over. These people aren't radio geeks.
I'm slowly coming around to the fact that the audience advertisers want to reach is so fickle that even though they liked the last ten songs, they will change stations because of one song and risk missing ten more they like. There used be something else that kept them tuned in even thought they didn't like one song - live DJs who were as much fun to listen to as the music.
It appears that people listen to the "morning zoo crews" who talk on and on and rarely play music. They'll talk for minutes at a time and keep an audience. But a DJ who talks for 15 seconds and plays wall to wall music can't attract an audience? Listeners want talking for minutes at a time or music with no talk? Really?

I have made similar comments on this board for going on seven years now.

 

[davideduardo]

Test panels, focus groups, Army troops, hula hoops. Sorry I used the wrong term. I've heard comments at non-radio events (classic car shows, for one) that the local oldies stations keep playing the same songs over and over. These people aren't radio geeks.

As Big A commented, there are no more songs that can be played, so the limitations of a classic hits format are in the fact that there will be endless repeat plays of the songs that people want to hear.

Since most listeners share their listening time between 5 or 6 stations in the course of a week, repetition is not a big issue... while playing weak, less acceptable songs is.

 

[R_F_Burns]

As Big A commented, there are no more songs that can be played, so the limitations of a classic hits format are in the fact that there will be endless repeat plays of the songs that people want to hear.

Since most listeners share their listening time between 5 or 6 stations in the course of a week, repetition is not a big issue... while playing weak, less acceptable songs is.

I'm curious define what you would consider a "Weak less acceptable song"

 

[davideduardo]

I'm curious define what you would consider a "Weak less acceptable song"

Any song that has a totally neutral or negative score.

To use a scale of 1-100, if very few people in the target audience scored it above a 70, and lots scored it below a 50 it will cause tune-out and overall dissatisfaction with the station.

 

[firepoint525]

That's the basic problem with Oldies as a format. No matter how many songs in the library, sooner or later, you're playing the same songs. Why? Because there are no currents or recurrents mixed in. It's those currents and recurrents, when mixed in to an AC format, that give it some texture and delay the repetition.

Not limited to "oldies" as a format. The following example, posted by me on another thread, is an example of dissatisfaction with the AC format:

Next time you go in for a haircut, ask the person who cuts your hair about the radio station that they happen to have playing (assuming that they have one). It will be a definite conversation starter, and they will definitely have no shortage of opinions for you. They are subjected to the radio all day, whether music fans or not, so they will have STRONG opinions for you. They can not only tell you WHAT will play, but WHEN it will play. They will pick up ALL the patterns of whatever station that they happen to be listening to. And they will say that the station plays the same songs at the same time every day. And that if they (the station) plays "this," then they will play "that." (Just don't tell them that you are in radio, or they may hold back on you!) I remember going into a Fantastic Sam's a couple of days before Christmas one year, and they had a Garth Brooks CD playing because they were tired of all the Christmas music on the radio.

And now, for an example of dissatisfaction with a highly repetitive country format:

I had my own experience with "radioverkill" (my name for radio overkill, as I call it). Back in the late '80s, I was part of a cemetery mowing crew. So most of the day I was outside, far away from any radio. However, for a total of about two hours every day (breaks, lunch, beginning and end of each workday), we were in the garage where all of the equipment was kept. There was a radio in there, and they kept it tuned to the local country station. Bad enough for me, but even with that relatively limited exposure to the radio, my co-workers noticed that that station was burning certain songs (usually the then-current hits) to death! And I am assuming that at least some of them actually LIKED country music!

 

[TheBigA]

Not limited to "oldies" as a format. The following example, posted by me on another thread, is an example of dissatisfaction with the AC format:

Depends on which AC format you're talking about. If it's the standard kind of AC, it's not much different than oldies. But the example you give is clearly not representative of the mass audience. The example you give if where a station is played all day, and no one I know programs towards that kind of listener.

And now, for an example of dissatisfaction with a highly repetitive country format:

Country radio programming has changed a lot from the 80s example you give. It's far more diverse, and songs are kept in the format for a longer period of time. The changes made have turned country into the absolute most successful music format on the radio. Plus, as I said above, no one programs to people who listen all day. That's not typical of most radio users. It's even less typical of people who use Pandora or Spotify. Their TSL numbers are terrible.

 

[firepoint525]

The example you give if where a station is played all day, and no one I know programs towards that kind of listener.

Radio's new slogan: "Radio! The MORE you listen, the LESS you like us!"

Country radio programming has changed a lot from the 80s example you give. It's far more diverse, and songs are kept in the format for a longer period of time. The changes made have turned country into the absolute most successful music format on the radio. Plus, as I said above, no one programs to people who listen all day. That's not typical of most radio users.

This particular station (at least at that time) was ALREADY heavy on recurrents. I worked there for four months, and many of the songs that they fried to a crisp were on their playlist for that entire time! And I was only subjected to it for a couple of hours (total) per day. It was definitely NOT "all day," or I would have quit the cemetery mowing crew even sooner than I did!

 

[TheBigA]

Radio's new slogan: "Radio! The MORE you listen, the LESS you like us!"

As I've said many times, radio can't be all things to all people. Some people LIKE repetition. There's no question that it works, and that it sells. Ask any recording artist which songs get the biggest response at their shows, and they'll tell you the ones that are fried to a crisp.

This particular station (at least at that time) was ALREADY heavy on recurrents.

Country radio stations get fresh research every year at the annual CRS. There, they learn things that make their stations more competitive. Regardless of your specific example, country stations are still among the most successful in all of music radio. So my conclusion is: If it works, keep doin' it.

 

[firepoint525]

As I've said many times, radio can't be all things to all people. Some people LIKE repetition. There's no question that it works, and that it sells. Ask any recording artist which songs get the biggest response at their shows, and they'll tell you the ones that are fried to a crisp.
Country radio stations get fresh research every year at the annual CRS. There, they learn things that make their stations more competitive. Regardless of your specific example, country stations are still among the most successful in all of music radio. So my conclusion is: If it works, keep doin' it.

The JACK-FM stations are about the only ones out there that are intellectually honest with their listeners. Most of the others only pretend to play what listeners want.

And since the "average" listener isn't listening during the evening or overnight hours, you might as well sign off at 6:00 p.m. and sign back on at 6:00 a.m. the next morning. Hasn't been too long since nearly ALL stations did that! Save yourself some money on that electric bill!

 

[davideduardo]

The JACK-FM stations are about the only ones out there that are intellectually honest with their listeners. Most of the others only pretend to play what listeners want.

How do you come to that conclusion? The Top 50 market Jack stations locally research their playlists, just as most significant competitors do.

And since the "average" listener isn't listening during the evening or overnight hours, you might as well sign off at 6:00 p.m. and sign back on at 6:00 a.m. the next morning.

The "average" listener does listen in evenings... just not for as much time as during 6 AM to 7 PM hours. Part of radio's "ease of use" is in the knowing that anytime you turn a station on, you know to expect a particular style of music or programming.

In this sense, radio is not unlike a supermarket... where many items do not produce any profits, but without which the entire operation would fail.

Hasn't been too long since nearly ALL stations did that! Save yourself some money on that electric bill!

And when did "nearly all stations" sign off at 6 PM? I don't recall that ever being even close to true.

You'd be surprised with the reason why many stations decided to operate in overnights, too. Nothing to do with audience, either.

 

[TheBigA]

The JACK-FM stations are about the only ones out there that are intellectually honest with their listeners. Most of the others only pretend to play what listeners want.

The best way to check that is to compare the airplay charts with the streaming charts. I do that, and can tell you the songs are virtually the same. The only difference may be in the number of spins a specific song gets. And you'd be shocked to know that some Taylor Swift songs get more streaming spins than airplay spins. Which means her fans are playing her songs more often than they get played on the radio. They also continue to play her songs after they've peaked on the airplay charts. So much for listeners not liking repetition. They do.

 

[davideduardo]

So much for listeners not liking repetition. They do.

It's funny how the format that gets the fewest repetition complaints is the one that plays the fewest songs: CHR.

 

[firepoint525]

It's funny how the format that gets the fewest repetition complaints is the one that plays the fewest songs: CHR.

It's also the one with the shortest attention span, and the one in which the listeners age out of it the fastest. It has been years since I could tolerate CHR, and I doubt that I could tolerate the 2014 version for long, either.