I have noticed some "network" CCM stations that have edited/shortened popular hit songs, apparently in an attempt to play maybe 1 more song per hour (which is probably a stretch). I really don't like this practice and wondered what your thoughts are? I heard a "network" station today in our market play "God's Not Dead" by the Newsboys and I heard two very obvious edits in the song. One of which was the key moment in tje song when lead singer, Michael Tait, whispers "God's Not Dead, He's surely alive." Why would this station choose to do this? The Newsboys obviously didn't intend for it to be edited out and they always include it in their concert presentation when Michael comes out into the crowd on the catwalk to whisper the line (I've seen them three times). As a GM, my program director or music director would need a very good reason to get my approval to do that to such a popular song. I can't think of good reason, can you?
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Does your CCM station edit or shorten songs?
- Thread starter Jagger43
- Start date
R
rbrucecarter5
Guest
Nothing recent --- but a curious thing happened in the 90's. CCM songs cut out an interlude in the middle of DC Talk's "Between you and Me" - which was a passionate plea against racism, and a crossover to secular stations. The secular stations played the interlude, but CCM stations did not. Which was interesting, because a lot of the scriptural meaning was in the interlude.
Sometimes, it's the Record Companies, themselves that edit the songs... releasing "Radio Versions" (with edits in various places, to please various music tastes) vs the ALBUM version, which is what people buy.
When I was the Music Director for WFIF, I used the Album Versions. If they had something that pushed the envelope, like a wild guitar solo, I'd use the edited version. Sometimes, I had to edit a song for that reason... especially if the song was really good, and was a perfect fit for the format, otherwise.
When I was the Music Director for WFIF, I used the Album Versions. If they had something that pushed the envelope, like a wild guitar solo, I'd use the edited version. Sometimes, I had to edit a song for that reason... especially if the song was really good, and was a perfect fit for the format, otherwise.
WPHA said:
That is something that frustrates me about CCM -- Why cut up artists songs.. So there is a Guitar solo in it? Really it's not going to hurt anyone to hear that! (A wild guitar solo sure is more harmless to Christians and our faith and non Christians than some of the stuff coming out of some Christian talk shows) I see this all the time .. Some songs I have 3-4 different edits to "appease" sticky programmers who won't add it otherwise.
[And people wonder why most Christians don't even listen to Christian radio]..
xmusicmatt said:
Definitely agreed there. :
Just another in the endless set of reminders that CCM radio does not care one bit about the male audience. I worked in CCM radio in the mid-80s and there was some really good music out there that appealed beyond the women 25-49 demo. Someone is still making CCM like that I suppose, but CCM radio won't touch it. I understand where the money demos are, and radio is a business. But it makes CCM terribly dull. I will stick to my old vinyl prints of Daniel Band, Servant, Prodigal and classic Petra. Yeah, I'm a dinosaur, but the music industry pushed me there pretty hard.
As I said... MOST of the time, those edits come directly from the Record Companies, themselves.
In my case, it was actually VERY FEW songs that required this editing on my part.
I was the Music Director for WFIF for 17 years. With a very small staff, I was also the Morning Announcer, Chief Engineer, Traffic Manager, Production Manager, and phone-answerer. I talked to a good number of listeners. They very much appreciated the sound and style of the music we played. It was also the decision of my bosses, and they were pleased with the job I was doing. For about 16 of those 17 years, they basically gave me almost complete autonomy over the music. The listeners loved it, so Management was pleased.
If that isn't a win-win, then I'm sorry.
In my case, it was actually VERY FEW songs that required this editing on my part.
I was the Music Director for WFIF for 17 years. With a very small staff, I was also the Morning Announcer, Chief Engineer, Traffic Manager, Production Manager, and phone-answerer. I talked to a good number of listeners. They very much appreciated the sound and style of the music we played. It was also the decision of my bosses, and they were pleased with the job I was doing. For about 16 of those 17 years, they basically gave me almost complete autonomy over the music. The listeners loved it, so Management was pleased.
If that isn't a win-win, then I'm sorry.
xmusicmatt said:
Agreed, Matt, but it's rampant in secular radio as well. Listening to any Pop, Classic Hits, Classic Rock, or Charlie-type stations will show you that (especially if you're an air guitar soloist like I am).
Generally, it's PD prerogative more than song length. I remember some listeners complaining that the album version of Amy Grant's "Baby, Baby" was a lot lighter than the one my old station played. My rock station picked the Jars of Clay version of "Flood" without the violin break. For King and Country's "The Proof of Your Love" is played with the spoken interlude on some stations, and without it on others (just like the Moody Blues' "Nights in White Satin"). TobyMac's "Lose My Soul" has Kirk Franklin rapping "Are you a pimp?" in one version, "Are you a punk?" on another, and I've even heard one with the rap part removed.
But the PD should know the audience best. Implying that one version is the best for everyone is inaccurate. And unless you own the album, you might never notice how many measures are deleted from tunes like "Blessings" by Laura Story.
When legends like the Eagles have their songs edited, is any song untouchable?
One edit I remember that I hated was "The Real Me" by Natalie Grant. The radio version, in my opinion, cut out a line that I consider the best part of the song. At the very end, it goes....
There's no need to mask my frailty
Cause you see the real me
And you love me just as I am
Wonderful, beautiful is what you see
When you look at me
I'd understand if this was secular radio. But this was all over Christian radio as well.
There's no need to mask my frailty
Cause you see the real me
And you love me just as I am
Wonderful, beautiful is what you see
When you look at me
I'd understand if this was secular radio. But this was all over Christian radio as well.
R
rbrucecarter5
Guest
WPHA said:
That - is why we differ. I want gramma to drop her dishes. She is not the demographic I want to reach. She may send big checks for praise and worship and watered down CCM, but I trust God for my support, not gramma. BTW - "gramma" called and cursed out my 14 year old female phone volunteer. I intervened quickly with a challenge to "gramma". Listen to the lyrics objectively for any heresy. She called back later and apologized. She still hated our style of music, but realized we were the real deal spiritually, and she was glad we were reaching young people for Christ.
Scratch those thoughts and let's work with these.
Granny, I love you. I respect and admire you. You have many years of living on your side. Look at what you've done to help build this nation. Many from her generation did their part and helped put this nation together. We thank you for your contributions but now here's where we will part ways. Musically speaking, this generation of people wants to hear their songs with lots of beat, rhythm and guitar. That's right granny. They may respect and love the hymns but can only take so much. These people want to break from the old guard and use new avenues to help bring people to Jesus Christ. After all granny, the Hymns were the CCM of that day. When those songs first came out, people like you were protesting them. They saw many issues with the songs and made the same arguments you make about today's CCM. You know, too worldly sounding and watered down lyrics. And yes had me and Mr. Bruce been working in radio broadcasting, during that time, every known granny type would've been protesting our radio station and accused us of promoting trouble. And those same people would've done everything possible to put our radio station out of business for good. Had Mr. Dial The Truth been living then, he would've done the same thing too. After all, those Hymns would've been our most request tunes for the week. Been researching the history behind the hymns and discovered these things. Many people did not accept them. Some even accused Martin Luther of mixing bar tunes with the Gospel message. Hence the reason why many wanted to keep his songs away from the Church. In closing, before you make harsh statements about this modern CCM music granny, do your homework and see if my statements about the hymns hold water. After you research the evidence, you'll discover the same things I recently discovered.
Dan <><
Granny, I love you. I respect and admire you. You have many years of living on your side. Look at what you've done to help build this nation. Many from her generation did their part and helped put this nation together. We thank you for your contributions but now here's where we will part ways. Musically speaking, this generation of people wants to hear their songs with lots of beat, rhythm and guitar. That's right granny. They may respect and love the hymns but can only take so much. These people want to break from the old guard and use new avenues to help bring people to Jesus Christ. After all granny, the Hymns were the CCM of that day. When those songs first came out, people like you were protesting them. They saw many issues with the songs and made the same arguments you make about today's CCM. You know, too worldly sounding and watered down lyrics. And yes had me and Mr. Bruce been working in radio broadcasting, during that time, every known granny type would've been protesting our radio station and accused us of promoting trouble. And those same people would've done everything possible to put our radio station out of business for good. Had Mr. Dial The Truth been living then, he would've done the same thing too. After all, those Hymns would've been our most request tunes for the week. Been researching the history behind the hymns and discovered these things. Many people did not accept them. Some even accused Martin Luther of mixing bar tunes with the Gospel message. Hence the reason why many wanted to keep his songs away from the Church. In closing, before you make harsh statements about this modern CCM music granny, do your homework and see if my statements about the hymns hold water. After you research the evidence, you'll discover the same things I recently discovered.
Dan <><
As for editing songs, I noticed many versions that differed from the CD the listener bought. I always felt this was a dangerous way to go. Sometimes we get so involved with second guessing our audience (can't say the weather is Sunny because there's a station that uses Sunny as its handle) that we over do it. If we were running Baskin Robbins, we'd have just one flavor, vanilla
I took the attitude that either the song, as it appeared on the CD fit my format or not. I didn't modify and edit to make a song that wouldn't work become more palatable for my audience. When people turn on the radio and hear a song they like enough to purchase it, they want and expect the version they are hearing on the radio. By editing we are, in essence, altering the musical sermon and thus, the full message of the song. Long ago when I ran a Top 40 I learned it's not as much what you play but what you don't play that matters.
If there were 10 other choices on the dial for the same songs I might think differently but mostly we stand alone in going after our target audience. I've always found even the competition works within the market to carve out their demographic and more often than not is not a cut-throat competitor. For the most part we have slim playlists anyway so why alter songs to make them work instead of just playing what our audience wants without altering songs. We enjoy mostly close relationships with the record companies and we can say what we need and likely get it.
I took the attitude that either the song, as it appeared on the CD fit my format or not. I didn't modify and edit to make a song that wouldn't work become more palatable for my audience. When people turn on the radio and hear a song they like enough to purchase it, they want and expect the version they are hearing on the radio. By editing we are, in essence, altering the musical sermon and thus, the full message of the song. Long ago when I ran a Top 40 I learned it's not as much what you play but what you don't play that matters.
If there were 10 other choices on the dial for the same songs I might think differently but mostly we stand alone in going after our target audience. I've always found even the competition works within the market to carve out their demographic and more often than not is not a cut-throat competitor. For the most part we have slim playlists anyway so why alter songs to make them work instead of just playing what our audience wants without altering songs. We enjoy mostly close relationships with the record companies and we can say what we need and likely get it.
Many, many moons ago, an attempt to insult me was made by a former boss. Essentially, he accused me of playing "Little Old Lady music". I took it as the highest compliment...
Give me a whole audience FULL of "Little Old Ladies" *ANY DAY*!! Why? Because MANY of those precious Gramma's KNOW HOW TO PRAY!!
Now, am I talking about choirs & pipe organs? Goodness no... I'm talking about "Classic Inspo" like Twila Paris, 4-Him, 2'nd Chapter of Acts, mixed with Laura Story, Jeremy Camp, etc... in a prayerfully-chosen, balanced mix where the key focus is upon the LYRICS. By playing songs that WON'T cause Gramma to drop her dishes, she is going to stay tuned... and when a PRAYER REQUEST goes out over the airwaves, SHE IS THERE TO HEAR IT, because she didn't shut off the radio.
We are in a spiritual WARFARE, and those precious Little Old Ladies are MIGHTY PRAYER WARRIORS! My 17 years experience as the Music Director of WFIF has proven this. Time and time again, I got calls from thankful listeners, sharing Testimonies of ANSWERED PRAYER. GOD receives the GLORY for that... the station, and the music I was playing, were only vessels He used. Lives were changed... there were even a couple of prevented suicides... all because of that "Little Old lady music". (Classic Inspo/CCM)
The Bible says we will know them by their fruit. I look back on the FRUIT that God harvested out of that music, and I see AMAZING GRACE written all over it. TO GOD BE THE GLORY!!! \o/
Give me a whole audience FULL of "Little Old Ladies" *ANY DAY*!! Why? Because MANY of those precious Gramma's KNOW HOW TO PRAY!!
Now, am I talking about choirs & pipe organs? Goodness no... I'm talking about "Classic Inspo" like Twila Paris, 4-Him, 2'nd Chapter of Acts, mixed with Laura Story, Jeremy Camp, etc... in a prayerfully-chosen, balanced mix where the key focus is upon the LYRICS. By playing songs that WON'T cause Gramma to drop her dishes, she is going to stay tuned... and when a PRAYER REQUEST goes out over the airwaves, SHE IS THERE TO HEAR IT, because she didn't shut off the radio.
We are in a spiritual WARFARE, and those precious Little Old Ladies are MIGHTY PRAYER WARRIORS! My 17 years experience as the Music Director of WFIF has proven this. Time and time again, I got calls from thankful listeners, sharing Testimonies of ANSWERED PRAYER. GOD receives the GLORY for that... the station, and the music I was playing, were only vessels He used. Lives were changed... there were even a couple of prevented suicides... all because of that "Little Old lady music". (Classic Inspo/CCM)
The Bible says we will know them by their fruit. I look back on the FRUIT that God harvested out of that music, and I see AMAZING GRACE written all over it. TO GOD BE THE GLORY!!! \o/
R
rbrucecarter5
Guest
I remember that era - in some ways I would call your format "Christian oldies". Actually, in the Sandy Patty era, some of those artists, at the time, were pretty revolutionary. I met Twila at a concert / recording session in a nearby church. Just after she got married - nice lady.
I understand where you are coming from, and if that is where God is leading your station, fine. I couldn't do that format - even though I love the old stuff. Why? Because the little old ladies are already saved. I'm not interested in programming to saved people. I want the unsaved listening - so they will be drawn to Christ. That is the Great Commission, and I take it seriously. I need to get out of my comfort zone and into loving people - all people. I want the whites, blacks, young, old, Asians, Hispanics, Protestants, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Hindus, Jews, Buddhists, gays, straights - everybody who hears the station to feel the love we have for them. I want the station to reflect Christ's love for all people. The station should be fun to listen to, informative, and above all inviting for all the groups above, and everybody I didn't name, to come and hear what Christ has to say in a non-threatening, non-judgmental format. The Christian church has done a really good job of telling people what we are against, the whole world knows that, but they are supposed to know Christians by our love. We need to start doing a better job of telling people what we are for - the saving grace of Jesus Christ, instead of what we are against. We don't need to compromise scripture in even one minor detail to do this - we simply get the good news out, and let the Holy Spirit do His job.
I hear a lot about spiritual warfare. I don't trivialize evil and the presence of satan. But - the war has already been done. Any spiritual warfare is a minor skirmish. We don't have to be looking for demons under every bed like a baby scared of the boogie man. One prayer, stating the authority of Jesus Christ over the situation - bam - that demon is out of there and won't be back. We have the authority, it doesn't take an army of prayer warriors to do the job. One believer, armed with the Word of God, and the confident faith that comes from knowing that the Bible gives us authority over all - as in ALL of these principalities and power - that is all we need. When the disciples had problems, it was a problem with their faith, not a ninja powerful demon that somehow needs combined prayers of more than one. You have the power to move mountains, if it wasn't true Jesus wouldn't have said it. So - dispatch the problem with a single prayer, using the authority Christ has given you, and move on. A lot of "demon hunter" Christians sound more like witches - well, we need a group of people to cast this one out - it is a powerful one. NO! You have the power, you have the authority, speak directly to the thing, it has no power over Christ, and that means you have the full and sufficient power to speak to it on His behalf and tell it to be gone. The key is to speak directly, using Christ's authority, armed with the scripture applying to the situation. Oh - and don't try to use this authority to put down the homeless guy that walks into church stinking of gin, disheveled, tattered clothes, not shaved, and not bathed in a year. He is where he needs to be - in church. Instead of praying for the demon of alcohol to leave, you go over there, shake his hand, smile a genuine smile, and welcome him into the church. Take him right down front as far as he wants to go, give him the seat of honor. Because he is seeking, and is ready to receive Christ's love. That - is what I did on the air. Jehovah witness / Mormon / atheist / mean person / nice person / little old lady / kid on drugs / whatever else calls in? HI, how are you, God bless you, what can we do for you, what song would you like to hear? Is there anything else we can do for you? Love and a servant's heart - that will save more people than hellfire and damnation preaching ever did. I had an ancestor who died at Salem, and you know what? Much of the church is still acting like that today. They don't burn and hang people, but they are sure good at judging falsely, condemning, and shutting them out.
Grampa, on the other hand, is going to drop his dishes.
Try BBN. Now THAT'S music.
Or WMUU online. I don't think they have contributors. When it was on FM they had commercials. They may still have those.
Not all songs are shortened by the radio stations. We oftentimes choose the radio edit version that the record labels send us.
The ideal song will last 2:50 - 3:40. Oftentimes the album cuts you download on itunes, etc., are just too long.
When I was a kid I remember the Beatles song, Hey Jude lasted about 7:11. I don't remember any station playing the full version.
The ideal song will last 2:50 - 3:40. Oftentimes the album cuts you download on itunes, etc., are just too long.
When I was a kid I remember the Beatles song, Hey Jude lasted about 7:11. I don't remember any station playing the full version.
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rbrucecarter5
Guest
McLendon stations played the complete versions of Hey Jude, Bye Bye American Pie, and McArthur park. I don't remember any other really long songs but I remember they played full versions of those. I do remember two versions of Light My Fire and Magic Carpet Ride - short interlude and long interlude. McLendon stations played both versions depending on the DJ. With the FM album music / underground rock movement, there was a real desire for musical integrity - remaining true to what the artist put on the album. Still, it was a rare station that let the entire closing gong of Days of Future Passed or Day in the Life completely play out - although some stations solved the problem by playing complete versions after midnight, sometimes playing complete albums or album sides. I can tell you from personal experience I loved to do it because I could run next door to the all night restaurant and get a bite to eat. They played my show so I could get back to the station in plenty of time, or in case of the rare needle skip. We cured the needle skip problem by transcribing onto reel-to-reel tape. I think the old 2:50 to 3:40 rule is pretty much dead, but there was a lively discussion over Elton John's "Tiny Dancer" on secular stations recently - somebody did a hatchet job on it and it was awful. And while we are talking about the 2:50 3:40 rule, what about real classics like the Turtles "You Baby" which was barely two minutes. I don't think there was ever a short limit, just a long limit.
My personal feeling is that Christian stations should play the entire song, remaining true to the message the writer and performer intended. It was shameful that WMMO - a secular station - would play the complete version of "Between You and Me" and the Christian stations gutted the message in the middle. Why? It was a beautiful testimony. Secular stations had no problem with it, neither should Christian.
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