The new krth

[oldies76]

In a recent trip to LA. I was inundated with the endless playing of "hotel california", "tainted love" and "we are the champions" just to name a few. The repetition is real and makes the station unlistenable for anything past 15 minutes or so.

Completely agree with you. Some of us complained, when certain songs were played once daily (under Jhani), but on a positive note, had 800 songs in rotation. Now, many songs are played 3-4 (and in rare cases 5 times a day!) without any variation. Hardly anything "new" is ever added and if it is, it's played once and never heard from again. Weekends are nothing, just reworks of the weekly playlist, making it sound like something special.....when it isn't.

KRTH has declined so much these past 5 or 6 months, it's virtually unlistenable to classic hits fans and people who love their oldies. I stopped listening regularly.......oh, about 26 years ago when the playlist was chopped to road kill.

CBS-FM is more manageable, but has declined a bit of late. The only thing that keeps me tuning in, is their Sunday night specials.

 

[krth101]

What you say makes sense.In other words where mike Phillips jay Coffey and to an extent jhani Kaye programmed to those who grew up listening to KHJ, Rick is eventually going to cater to an audience that listened to KIIS in the 80s. Thus the evolution from oldies to classic hits and apparently classic hits/ urban. Fortunately CBS FMs demo looks like it leans more in the direction jhani Kaye had taken KRTH. The big difference in listening to CBS *is the relative lack of repetition. My guess is that their current play list is at least double the size of KRTH. And where KRTH currently appears to be trying to be all things to all people, with some 60s, 70s and 80s, pop, rock and a dance mix *CBS seems to have greater focus and is more upbeat overall.

 

[davideduardo]

Completely agree with you. Some of us complained, when certain songs were played once daily (under Jhani), but on a positive note, had 800 songs in rotation.

And it has over 800 songs in rotation today. In any given week, there will be around 450, but there are quite a few songs on even slower rotation or in rest/active alternation patterns. The difference is that the prime cuts rotate faster, and the others rotate less.

KRTH has declined so much these past 5 or 6 months, it's virtually unlistenable to classic hits fans and people who love their oldies.

That's not true. KRTH has moved up a full 5 rank positions in 25-54 since September and finished the last weekly at 10th! It is definitely pleasing the target that CBS intends it to appeal to.

I stopped listening regularly.......oh, about 26 years ago when the playlist was chopped to road kill.

Having a bit of an issue letting go?

 

[davideduardo]

Thus the evolution from oldies to classic hits and apparently classic hits/ urban.

KRTH is hardly uban. "Urban" may have its many great crossovers, but the term fundamentally means formats and songs with a predominantly African American target / core. KRTH has neither; it's pop and rhythmic pop, not r&b and rap and hip hop.

 

[krth101]

my apologies for mislabeling what KRTH is doing in terms of music selection. the point is that they've consciously chosen to change direction once jhani left the building last summer. however, that does not explain or justify the repetition point and limited playlist issues that many of us have made here. are you stating that KRTHs current playlist is 800 deep? i find that hard to believe - but then again, im basing this solely off the last played section of their website. possibly you have a different source. while on the topic, i came across this quote on line while reading all access earlier today, that would seem to back what i, oldies 76 and radio rewind have been trying to make these last few months.
the quote:

Red flag #1: playing the "same ol' songs."
"Among those listening to less radio compared to a year ago, the #1 culprit is repetitive music," JACOBS MEDIA Pres. FRED JACOBS noted. "Of those who cite a decrease in AM/FM listening, more than four in 10 (43%) cite hearing the same songs over and over again. PRECISELY!

 

[davideduardo]

are you stating that KRTHs current playlist is 800 deep?

The total number of cuts played in the last 4 weeks is over 800, per BDS.

Red flag #1: playing the "same ol' songs."
"Among those listening to less radio compared to a year ago, the #1 culprit is repetitive music," JACOBS MEDIA Pres. FRED JACOBS noted. "Of those who cite a decrease in AM/FM listening, more than four in 10 (43%) cite hearing the same songs over and over again. PRECISELY!

This is definitely true if the songs are burnt out and don't score positively.

But when listeners complain of repetition it is generally a complaint about hearing songs they don't like. Deep libraries get far more repetiton complaints than CHR stations with 100 songs do.

 

[TheBigA]

"Among those listening to less radio compared to a year ago, the #1 culprit is repetitive music," JACOBS MEDIA Pres. FRED JACOBS noted. "Of those who cite a decrease in AM/FM listening, more than four in 10 (43%) cite hearing the same songs over and over again.

As we've seen, there's often a difference between perception and reality. And the one thing your quote doesn't say is format. Is this comment about all formats, or certain specific formats? He may not be talking about classic hits at all.

In CHR, repetition is the foundation of the format. Has been since Top 40 was created 60 years ago. The whole system of currents-based radio is built around increasing the spins of certain currents as they become more familiar, thus more popular. That's how shows like American Top 40 are made. The #1 song of the week is also the one played the most often. As often as 6 or 7 times in one day.

 

[davideduardo]

As we've seen, there's often a difference between perception and reality. And the one thing your quote doesn't say is format. Is this comment about all formats, or certain specific formats? He may not be talking about classic hits at all.

As the statement, which is taken out of context, was made by Fred Jacobs leading me to believe that there may have been a classic rock reference there. Since each format has different rotational requirements, I doubt a pro like Fred would make such a blanket statement without qualifications as to format.

In CHR, repetition is the foundation of the format. Has been since Top 40 was created 60 years ago. The whole system of currents-based radio is built around increasing the spins of certain currents as they become more familiar, thus more popular. That's how shows like American Top 40 are made. The #1 song of the week is also the one played the most often. As often as 6 or 7 times in one day.

At stations like KIIS and Z-100, 12 to 15 times a day... 110 to 115 plays a week is the norm for powers. Of course, those are two of the five most listened to music stations in America.

 

[TheBigA]

Of course, those are two of the five most listened to music stations in America.

Which says a lot about the power of repetition.

 

[oldies76]

The total number of cuts played in the last 4 weeks is over 800, per BDS.

Does BDS match "Last Played" on the KRTH website?? Well it should since the "Last Played" is minute by minute, song by song. KRTH is not playing 800 "different" songs today. When Rick took over around Labor Day, he eliminated the 60's (a few hundred of them) and replaced few of them with some 70's and 80's. And the fact that many same songs are being played 3-4 times a day, does not statistically justify a playlist of 800 different songs. It's just not possible. I'll give you 400-500 max.

 

[oldies76]

But when listeners complain of repetition it is generally a complaint about hearing songs they don't like. Deep libraries get far more repetiton complaints than CHR stations with 100 songs do.

And the songs they don't like can be any song they are sick of hearing on the ENTIRE playlist, whether they are positives or a lost hit.

Teenagers and 20+ (CHR listeners) get tired of CHR songs being repeated often, especially if those recent hits sound "old" to them already. By that time, those songs should already be phasing out.

Repetition is everywhere.

 

[davideduardo]

Does BDS match "Last Played" on the KRTH website?? Well it should since the "Last Played" is minute by minute, song by song. KRTH is not playing 800 "different" songs today. When Rick took over around Labor Day, he eliminated the 60's (a few hundred of them) and replaced few of them with some 70's and 80's. And the fact that many same songs are being played 3-4 times a day, does not statistically justify a playlist of 800 different songs. It's just not possible. I'll give you 400-500 max.

BDS, like MediaBase, use fingerprinting technology to exactly match what is on the air, based on monitor points in each major market.

While "last played" will sometimes report songs that did not play due to "running out of time" before hard stopsets because they are still on the station log, MediaBase and BDS only report what was actually broadcast.

Last 2 weeks: 800 songs.

Your ability to mesh the gears of categories in different rotations is going to get a failing grade. It works out perfectly when you consider than only about 20 songs get those 24+ weekly rotations.

 

[davideduardo]

And the songs they don't like can be any song they are sick of hearing on the ENTIRE playlist, whether they are positives or a lost hit.

If a listener does not want to hear a song on the radio today, it can't be a positive.

Teenagers and 20+ (CHR listeners) get tired of CHR songs being repeated often, especially if those recent hits sound "old" to them already. By that time, those songs should already be phasing out.

Most CHR listeners are 18-44 females. They don't target teens. Burn is why stations today use MScores to be able to react to a song as soon as it starts building negatives... so stations look at rolling MScores several times a week and make adjustments, based on data that is totally fresh.

Repetition is everywhere.

And the vast majority of McDonalds customers buy hamburgers. It's not repetition if you like it.

 

[oldies76]

And the vast majority of McDonalds customers buy hamburgers. It's not repetition if you like it.

Well, at 89 cents, what do you expect. Personally I can go either way on them (for obvious health reasons), but makes for a cheap lunch. I'm sure, most health conscious people eating these burgers (and many do) would agree about the price lure.

 

[oldies76]

Your ability to mesh the gears of categories in different rotations is going to get a failing grade. It works out perfectly when you consider than only about 20 songs get those 24+ weekly rotations.

So 480 spins weekly are from about 20 songs?? Which works out to 960 songs in a two week span by the same 20.

Then there is no way 780 other songs can be played in that two-week span, if 960 of them are taken up by the other twenty. And you know that many of the remaining 780 are played more than once a day or two.

Once again, I will give you different 400-500 songs, that KRTH plays. There is no way 800 different songs are played.

During Jhani, yes since the daily spins on the positives rarely, if ever exceeded one or two per day.

 

[oldies76]

If a listener does not want to hear a song on the radio today, it can't be a positive.

Sure it can............every song that is played can be liked or disliked by any person listening to it, some more than others.

Let's all sing now..........."Will it Go Around in Circles".............

Have you tuned into the Sunday night countdown yet?? You should. You just might hear some of your favorites......

Buenas noches.

 

[davideduardo]

So 480 spins weekly are from about 20 songs?? Which works out to 960 songs in a two week span by the same 20.

Then there is no way 780 other songs can be played in that two-week span, if 960 of them are taken up by the other twenty. And you know that many of the remaining 780 are played more than once a day or two.

There are about 2600 weekly spins, given that overnights plays 3 or 4 more songs an hour, and evenings one or two. Less than 20% are from the high rotated group, and that group morphs from week to week... sort of like pistons moving in an engine.

Build 6 or 7 categories ranging from 1 spin every 10 to 15 days up to one with two daily spins, and there is plenty of room for 800 songs on the total list.

 

[crainbebo]

The real pain in the butt nowadays is just like what the others are ranting - 20 songs over and over. I get sick and tired of especially MAJOR MARKET stations doing this. KJR 95.7 was like this when I was in Seattle. KARY 100.9 is a little bit better, for Yakima, but we still need a station airing 1500 or more 1970s-early 80s songs. How 'bout "Junk Food Junkie" Larry Groce? Has KRTH EVER played that? Back when KMCQ was "All Songs of the '60s and '70s" for Seattle, before Q104.5, it was played once in a while.

-crainbebo

 

[TheBigA]

we still need a station airing 1500 or more 1970s-early 80s songs.

Never going to happen.

 

[davideduardo]

...we still need a station airing 1500 or more 1970s-early 80s songs.

If you followed the "Groundhog Day" iterations of this theme in many different threads, you'd have seen the posts by a number of people who have worked inside radio stations who have told stories of either losing to a competitor (or losing their jobs) by playing too many songs... or who have won by playing the right size playlist.

And there are plenty of these stories.

Mine are:

Last place among all market FMs to #1 in one book in a top 15 market by cutting the playlist from 1500 songs to less than 500 and maintenance of that position for 22 years with a tight, well researchedlist.

Going up against a batch of Clear Channel stations in markets like San Francisco and Dallas with "identical" classic hits formats. They insisted on a 1800 song list and I went with 700 to 800. They left the format in all those markets.

Or getting a competitor to our classic rock station in a market of 18 million who countered our 500 song list with 1800 songs and a positioner of "we play three times the songs of..." We had a 22 share when the competitor came on. they lasted a year, never got over a 1.8 and we never felt their presence. Listeners who had sampled the station said, in independently conducted research that the 1,800 song station "repeated the songs too often".

How 'bout "Junk Food Junkie" Larry Groce? Has KRTH EVER played that?

I hope not. I would bet that more than half the cume of KRTH has never heard of it, and the other half does not want to ever hear it again. Novelty songs have a very short shelf life.