The new krth

[Unregistered]

That IS the point. I grew up with radio, love(d) radio - understood from a young age that good radio is probably even harder to do than good TV. Radio, done right, is a tremendous source of entertainment and is most importantly, (call me crazy, I know)... FUN! Something you actually look forward to doing.


Any business that fails to invest in its own product eventually gets beaten out by somebody who will. This is exactly what is happening to over the air radio today. But David will be long retired when the chickens come home to roost and all we have is a once thriving medium that is a shadow of its own former glory. What we have now across the various formats is the race to the lowest common denominator - the more mind-numbing, repetitive and insulting to the intelligence of the listener, the better. Why? Because that's where the ratings are! No matter what the format is, radio takes the subject and dumbs it down. Whether it is talk, rock, chr, oldies. They are not interested in the quality of the product they are destroying because that is a long-term issue, and the radio industry only cares about it's next ratings book and its next bond payment.

I WANT to be able to tune into intelligent local radio. Here in LA/Hollywood, the most entertainment driven city possibly on the planet, that is (tragically) impossible due to personalities that aren't allowed to have any and playlists driven by the computer. Radio drove me away. I would love to come back, really. But since the David E.'s of the world know how to boil everything down to a list that can fit one two sheets of paper and get huge ratings doing it, that is impossible. David can crow about all of the station's he has taken from worst to first, what he can't tell you is how many people he and his kind have driven away from the business entirely. I am one of them. There are thousands if not millions of others. The business cannot make advertising money by selling their commercials to us because we are not there. And I will remind again, yes I am comfortably within the money demos. In short, we others will get what we want, it just won't be from local radio. And our numbers are growing every day.

If you look at stations that are popular, none of them are able to survive with playlists that stay the same for a long time. The most popular stations, KIIS and AMP, have small playlists, but every few months, it's out with the old, in with the new.

If we look at KLOS vs. Sound, KLOS has recently had the smaller playlist (though they're both small.) Sound is winning. (Must mention, though, that Sunday nights Bob Coburn has an amazing show on KLOS that is 100% freeform.)

JACK rose to prominence with a BIGGER playlist, and has stayed around by constantly changing what they're playing.

For K-Earth, they had their lowest point when they tried to play about 300 songs only during Jay Coffey's days. Started out OK, but got burnt out. But there is another issue: the 80s songs are, I think, not going to withstand the overplaying so well. Can we really hear Holiday by Madonna or Sussudio by Phil Collins the way we heard Satisfaction or even the much joked-about Brown Eyed Girl? I think the burnout will happen even faster.

It's too bad really, because K-Earth has a talented DJ staff that could do great things with an engaging playlist. They are a link to radio past with their old-style jingle amazingly still in use. But they're now playing songs we can hear elsewhere on the dial, and the presentation has zero creativity, particularly on weekends. I'm in their target demo, having grown up in the 80s, but now when I punch up K-Earth, it is basically indistinguishable from the other stations on the dial playing the Cars, the Eagles, Prince…

 

[oldies76]

Gotta agree with the Bob Hamilton era of K-Earth. If K-Earth is a "legendary" station, it's only because he made it so.

Exactly. To me (and many others in L.A.), KRTH is no longer legendary. Sure, they may have survived since 1972, but their best times and presentation were in the 1980's when Bob was PD. Except for a brief and minor resurgence when Jhani was PD, KRTH has mostly gone downhill since Bob.

Remember Brian Beirne? KRTH sure lost it's glamor when he left.

 

[jonbruce]

Rick Thomas is doing a good job, just not moving fast enough for me getting rid of all the 60's. Look at the giant numbers KOLA is getting without any 60's songs. KDGL in Palm Springs with the same consultant as KOLA has today's classic hits format nailed and will drive the final nail in the coffin of KDES. I told them years ago to drop the 60's but they won't do it and now pay the price.

 

[davideduardo]

Rick Thomas is doing a good job, just not moving fast enough for me getting rid of all the 60's. Look at the giant numbers KOLA is getting without any 60's songs. KDGL in Palm Springs with the same consultant as KOLA has today's classic hits format nailed and will drive the final nail in the coffin of KDES. I told them years ago to drop the 60's but they won't do it and now pay the price.

For those who don't know, Jon is a veteran of some very famous and important CHR stations in the Southland, and also did oldies / classic hits. I'll bet he played every song the posters on this group name... when they were currents.

His opinion about moving away from the 60s and about pop music in general are the stuff we can all learn from.

 

[Art Landing]

Indeed Mr Bruce is a veteran worth listening to - here is a thread to which he contributed when he was at KDES.

http://www.insidesocal.com/davidallen/2008/04/25/radio-radio/

Since I don't live in the Coachella Valley and at my age seldom go there I've never lstened to KDES, but given the age demographics of the area (a large number of retirees) I can see where an oldies format would work. Charlie Tuna and Art Laboe are apparently still heard "live" there daily. But the sixties to today's millenials and geneartion Y'ers is pre-historic, like grandpa's day.

 

[davideduardo]

Indeed Mr Bruce is a veteran worth listening to - here is a thread to which he contributed when he was at KDES.

http://www.insidesocal.com/davidallen/2008/04/25/radio-radio/

Since I don't live in the Coachella Valley and at my age seldom go there I've never lstened to KDES, but given the age demographics of the area (a large number of retirees) I can see where an oldies format would work. Charlie Tuna and Art Laboe are apparently still heard "live" there daily. But the sixties to today's millenials and geneartion Y'ers is pre-historic, like grandpa's day.

The median age in the Coachella Valley is 31.3, while for the entire state of CA it is 33.3.

While the area has a lot of retirees, many of them are snowbirds and are not eligible to participate in Nielsen surveys and don't count in the population numbers, either. So a true oldies station really would not do all that well since there is not a population bubble to support it.

 

[Art Landing]

Now those are interesting numbers, because although there are certainly Coachella snowbirds I know of what sems like a disproportionate number of former Angelenos who have elected to live as retirees in that area. I would have expected the age group to skew upward.

In any event, the KDES website certainly positions it as an oldies station. Mr Bruce's contention (which I greed with) is that it is losing its edge by including songs that are too old for much of even a retiree audience. Also, since much radio listening is done in cars (whether shopping, commuting or traveling) why should ratings be confined to those who are permanent residents?

 

[davideduardo]

Also, since much radio listening is done in cars (whether shopping, commuting or traveling) why should ratings be confined to those who are permanent residents?

Only about 30% of radio listening in the Coachella Valley is in-car. The rest is at home and at work.

Permanent residents are generally the only ones surveyed, as they are the ones that get on the data sources Nielsen uses to prospect for participants. Most snowbirds do not have a local phone, as they use their cellular... so they are not on the Cell Phone Only lists or number series. And they would, unless they owned a property that they used as a second home, not have a landline. So there is practically no way they would be recruited for the survey.

 

[oldies76]

It's too bad really, because K-Earth has a talented DJ staff that could do great things with an engaging playlist. They are a link to radio past with their old-style jingle amazingly still in use. But they're now playing songs we can hear elsewhere on the dial, and the presentation has zero creativity, particularly on weekends. I'm in their target demo, having grown up in the 80s, but now when I punch up K-Earth, it is basically indistinguishable from the other stations on the dial playing the Cars, the Eagles, Prince…

Exactly, well put. Now the weekends are just reworks of the weekly rotations, that's all. Nothing special about their "specialty" weekends anymore.

 

[Unregistered]

RE: The New KRTH

Overall, I believe K-Earth 101 is a very well-run station. They have good music (many songs I haven't heard on the radio in months/years), GREAT PERSONALITIES (Shotgun Tom is my favorite!), and great management, which would explain the high ratings for the month of March 2014 (4.2 in the ratings). Not to mention, they are still owned by CBS, a corporation that is still very committed to their radio business even if they are losing some money in this sector of the market. As for the changes mentioned in earlier posts, I did notice a slight change in music, but it seems awfully subtle to me.

 

[crainbebo]

Radio business people are in complete reverse. I (and many others) think a 2000-song playlist from 1955-1980 on a station would bring in huge ratings and lots of publicity. NO! It's the 500, 450, 400 song playlists that get 5.0s in the PPMs. How about 300? How about 250? How about pulling the plug - 101.1 KNX News Radio?

-crainbebo

 

[TheBigA]

Radio business people are in complete reverse. I (and many others) think a 2000-song playlist from 1955-1980 on a station would bring in huge ratings and lots of publicity.

You can think whatever you want. That's why you have a personal music system. If large playlists generated ratings and publicity, I'd do it in five seconds. These days, the only way to get publicity is do something bad.

 

[davideduardo]

Radio business people are in complete reverse. I (and many others) think a 2000-song playlist from 1955-1980 on a station would bring in huge ratings and lots of publicity. NO! It's the 500, 450, 400 song playlists that get 5.0s in the PPMs.

It's actually the listeners who set playlist size. When all the possible songs for a format are tested with listeners and potential listeners the ones that are universally positive in score are the ones that get played. If there are 500 songs "everybody" likes, that's how many get played.

 

[oldies76]

It's actually the listeners who set playlist size. When all the possible songs for a format are tested with listeners and potential listeners the ones that are universally positive in score are the ones that get played. If there are 500 songs "everybody" likes, that's how many get played.

When Jhani Kaye was PD, there were over 800 songs in the "listener" approved playlist. When Rick took over, the 60's were slashed and the playlist dropped to around 400 titles, just like that. And you're telling us that the listeners doing a music test did this? Why didn't they, when Jhani was PD then, a difference of a few months? Listeners just don't suddenly change a playlist from 800 to 400 in a months time, when they had since 2005 to do it.

It's not the listeners, it's the PD making those decisions by himself to "improve" the station. Jeez!

 

[oldies76]

If large playlists generated ratings and publicity, I'd do it in five seconds. These days, the only way to get publicity is do something bad.

If done right, a station can play any song it chooses, something you guys consistently fail to realize. You've never given it that chance. It worked in the 80's, it can work today. And don't give me the excuse that times have changed. Anything is possible.

 

[TheBigA]

When Jhani Kaye was PD, there were over 800 songs in the "listener" approved playlist. When Rick took over, the 60's were slashed and the playlist dropped to around 400 titles, just like that.

It wasn't the PD that changed, it was the age of the audience. As the audience gets older their music gets phased out.

 

[oldies76]

It wasn't the PD that changed, it was the age of the audience. As the audience gets older their music gets phased out.

But the PD still made the decisions on what to pull and what to keep. The music testers don't know that a PD change was imminent at KRTH last year. So it was the PD (Rick) that pulled the 60's, to accommodate the audience shift, which is fine. But he also should have kept the rotation at 800+ titles, instead of slashing it. Hopefully Rick's replacement will add more titles.

 

[TheBigA]

So it was the PD (Rick) that pulled the 60's, to accommodate the audience shift, which is fine. But he also should have kept the rotation at 800+ titles, instead of slashing it.

You measure a PD not by the size of his playlist, but by the size of his audience. The one thing that's been consistent with this station is their decisions have retained their audience.

 

[oldies76]

Radio business people are in complete reverse. I (and many others) think a 2000-song playlist from 1955-1980 on a station would bring in huge ratings and lots of publicity.
-crainbebo

If done right, anything is possible.

 

[oldies76]

The one thing that's been consistent with this station is their decisions have retained their audience.

Which means Rick "retained" the audience that Jhani had before he left.