Songs You Remember And Like But Never Get Played

[TheBigA]

I'd put over-reliance on flawed measuring of ratings as a sign of success.

The only reason you say it's flawed is because you don't like the results. So why don't you come up with a survey that shows us that we could make more money doing this your way. Make sure you get the results certified.

You also don't like NPR, and they don't use ratings at all.

 

[firepoint525]

You've talked yourself out of listening to the radio because you want stations to do what YOU want, instead of what the mass audience wants. No, stations can't make money, especially with this format, and be interesting to listeners like you. Believe me, I've tried. I even tried it with a non-commercial station that didn't have to appeal to advertisers. We tried a broader playlist of 60s & 70s hits, and the listeners didn't support it in large enough numbers to pay for it. So it went away. Any idea you or anyone else can come up with has been tried, and we have the statistics on how it did.

You might actually be surprised at how easy I would be to please, but you have made up your mind that you can't, so be it. I usually CAN listen to local radio in the car, like driving from here to town, or to my parents' house (about a 10-minute drive away). Apparently this is how the masses also "listen" to radio. Quiz them on what you just played, and they likely couldn't tell you. If I were an advertiser, particularly a local one, I would run for the hills to get away from radio, and "listeners" like that. National advertisers can probably make it because they get bulk rates, and enough (nationwide) response from their ads, at least to justify the cost of running them. Only time that I ever listened to radio specifically for the commercials is when I was production director at the station, and I just listened to make sure that they sounded good on the air. And that they played reliably and on schedule and all that.

For road trips, I MUST take the CDs with me, some of which I have burned myself. Live music seems to work especially well on road trips because it is more "continuous" than studio-recorded CDs, not that I am ruling those out.

 

[ok walters]

Radio is doing everything wrong if you listen to the experts who are not in the business on this board. There are a pile of posts in this thread covering everything - promotion, programming, sales, ratings, signal coverage, corporate owners, etc. - and there has been not one thing positive said by any of you about anything. And when long accepted facts are mentioned like ratings, the screaming gets even louder with name calling included. That is what happens when emotion rules the argument - the facts are not on your side so you get louder and twist whatever you need to.

One more time for old times sake. YOU picked the station that flipped formats as your example - not me - I had never heard of it before YOU brought it up. YOU told a tale of poor ownership in every respect and claimed radio owners are generally clueless, including big owners like Cumulus, but somehow never addressed how Cumulus is the second largest broadcaster in the US. YOU even went as far to say Cumulus "jinxed" the station before they sold it - that is so far out there that there is no logical response to it. You refuse to accept that radio is programmed at the masses - not at people who want to hear Brand New Key.

Let's look at another iconic business that is aimed at the masses - McDonalds. Do they have the best burgers? No. Can you design your own burger anyway you want it? No. Why? Because they are aimed at the masses and cannot allow customization - just like radio. Due to the aiming at the masses concept, no matter which McDonalds you go to you get a consistent product which is exactly what you expect - just like radio. You want a better burger? You want one with a topping no one else likes? Go to the local restaurant and you will likely find a better burger with whatever topping you want - albeit at a higher price and with a longer wait. Can that restaurant compete with McDonalds in gross sales? Not a chance because they have the masses and the local restaurant does not and never will. It is just like Pandora, Sirius, and even your Ipod trying to compete with radio - despite all of the doomsday predictions radio is still doing better than all of them combined. 244 million listeners a week and counting years after radio was supposed to be replaced by the internet. Heck, even AM radio is still around and doing well in many places, so when Avid claims "there are so many things wrong with radio today that several very thick books could be written" I just laugh. 244 million people can't be that wrong.

 

[ok walters]

You might actually be surprised at how easy I would be to please, but you have made up your mind that you can't, so be it. I usually CAN listen to local radio in the car, like driving from here to town, or to my parents' house (about a 10-minute drive away). Apparently this is how the masses also "listen" to radio. Quiz them on what you just played, and they likely couldn't tell you. If I were an advertiser, particularly a local one, I would run for the hills to get away from radio, and "listeners" like that. National advertisers can probably make it because they get bulk rates, and enough (nationwide) response from their ads, at least to justify the cost of running them. Only time that I ever listened to radio specifically for the commercials is when I was production director at the station, and I just listened to make sure that they sounded good on the air. And that they played reliably and on schedule and all that.

For road trips, I MUST take the CDs with me, some of which I have burned myself. Live music seems to work especially well on road trips because it is more "continuous" than studio-recorded CDs, not that I am ruling those out.

You have summed it up right there. You claim to be easily pleased, but nothing out there now is good enough. You can listen for 10 minutes on your way to your parents house, but on longer trips you need your CDs to make it. As I said before, an Ipod or CDs appears to be the source that fits you best, so why are you so upset that commercial radio that appeals to the masses doesn't appeal to you? You are upset enough to make multiple posts on a radio website telling us how bad radio really is when all you have to do is turn on the Ipod or CDs. Let radio do what it does best and you decide if that fits you or not. No hard feelings because 244 million others seem to be okay with radio as it is, as well as thousands of advertisers.

 

[TheBigA]

You might actually be surprised at how easy I would be to please,

Oh come on...just read all your posts, as I have.

 

[firepoint525]

One more time for old times sake. YOU picked the station that flipped formats as your example - not me - I had never heard of it before YOU brought it up. YOU told a tale of poor ownership in every respect and claimed radio owners are generally clueless, including big owners like Cumulus, but somehow never addressed how Cumulus is the second largest broadcaster in the US. YOU even went as far to say Cumulus "jinxed" the station before they sold it - that is so far out there that there is no logical response to it. You refuse to accept that radio is programmed at the masses - not at people who want to hear Brand New Key.

I not only mentioned a station that failed, I mentioned WHY it failed. But YOU can't accept that because YOU can't address it. Would YOU listen to a station that played the same song FOUR times? Would YOU listen to a station that repeated commercials for 30 minutes straight? Would YOU listen to a station that had double audio and you couldn't reach anyone on the phone to get someone to correct it? No matter how much you dumb down your listeners, they likely won't stay with you through all of that. All of this is just as bad (if not worse) than playing a "stiff" yet you STILL have no answer for it. And your hero pointed out that the station was doomed to failure REGARDLESS of the format, yet you just ignore that, too.

You must drive a DODGE because you have been awfully good at DODGING issues here. Denial is not just a river in Egypt. All you do is come on here like a cheerleader for David and the Big A and just parrot everything that they have said. I can see you on the sideline waving your pompoms for them right now. You keep repeating THEIR stats and figures, yet you have none of your own. Your next original idea will be your first.

 

[firepoint525]

Oh come on...just read all your posts, as I have.

Obstinacy, and know-it-all attitudes like yours are the reasons why people like me LEFT radio as a career, and will be the same reason why I leave as a listener.

But go ahead, feel free to keep cherry-picking that which supports your already determined agenda, and ignore that which does not.

 

[firepoint525]

You have summed it up right there. You claim to be easily pleased, but nothing out there now is good enough. You can listen for 10 minutes on your way to your parents house, but on longer trips you need your CDs to make it. As I said before, an Ipod or CDs appears to be the source that fits you best, so why are you so upset that commercial radio that appeals to the masses doesn't appeal to you? You are upset enough to make multiple posts on a radio website telling us how bad radio really is when all you have to do is turn on the Ipod or CDs. Let radio do what it does best and you decide if that fits you or not. No hard feelings because 244 million others seem to be okay with radio as it is, as well as thousands of advertisers.

www.krud.com

It ain't just me.

 

[TheBigA]

Obstinacy, and know-it-all attitudes like yours are the reasons why people like me LEFT radio as a career,

I thought you said you left because you wanted to eat better.

 

[landtuna]

Classic hits radio is a format that is evolving as we speak. What was true about the format ten or fifteen years ago is no longer true, because the audience is changing and aging. It's not "radio" or certain programmers. It's the audience. That's what's changing.

And the DJ's (or lack thereof). And the number and length of commercial blocks. And......

 

[landtuna]

Oldies and any other demo that draws large over 55 audiences are facing the same fate in many parts of the US where seniors don't dominate the population like in Florida and Arizona.

Dunno about Flor-i-duh but Arizona isn't that much different than the USA at large. After living in the NE states for a few years I would have to say that places like Noo Yawk and Connecticut have older populations, on average, than Arizona.

AZ USA
Persons under 5 years, percent 6.7% 6.4%
Persons under 18 years, percent 24.7% 23.5%
Persons 65 years and over, percent 14.8% 13.7%

 

[landtuna]

Never heard such nonsense. Where did you dig this one up from??

It's the adults that mostly dislike today's music, vs. the music from when they were younger.

It's was the same in the 50's and early 60's...the adults disliked the Beatles and the Stones or even Elvis, over Perry Como tunes and softer standards and songs. They disliked the hair and the change to rock and roll. Same thing.

I gotta agree with Oldies on this. I know of not one of my contemporaries who listens to "new" music. And not only do most not listen, they also express an extreme dislike for "that modern noise" (mostly because it isn't music).

 

[landtuna]

Radio now reaches 244.4 million Americans on an average weekly basis

I listen, in an average week, to less than one hour of radio (in my car). Does that mean I am "reached"? Is that good enough for the medium to continue as a profitable entity?

Look at your average teen or young adult walking down the sidewalk. Are they plugged into radio....or into their own library of who-knows-what? It ain't radio in most cases.

 

[TheBigA]

I gotta agree with Oldies on this. I know of not one of my contemporaries who listens to "new" music. And not only do most not listen, they also express an extreme dislike for "that modern noise" (mostly because it isn't music).

If you read the rest of the post, we were talking about new country music. Not rap or pop. And the most recent survey supports what I'm saying:

"A further breakdown shows that 48 percent of those who like country music are male and 52 percent are female. The age brackets are interesting, as 13 percent are in the 18-24 age range; 17 percent, 25-34; 18 percent, 35-44; 20 percent, 45-54; and 16 percent each in the 44-64 and 65-plus."

So it's a very even spread around the ages, and as I pointed out in my post, the thing your contemporaries like about country is how similar it is to the music they liked 25 years ago. If you go to country events in your area, you'll see a lot of your contemporaries, regardless of what they might say to you.

 

[TheBigA]

Look at your average teen or young adult walking down the sidewalk. Are they plugged into radio....or into their own library of who-knows-what? It ain't radio in most cases.

That may be your experience, but the facts show the average teen or young adult listens more to OTA radio than you. At least 6 hours a week. Maybe not anyone in your house, or your family, but they do. And by the way, the number of hours per day is increasing. Nielsen says 56% of teens listen to music on OTA Radio.

 

[Avid Listener]

The only reason you say it's flawed is because you don't like the results. So why don't you come up with a survey that shows us that we could make more money doing this your way. Make sure you get the results certified.

One simple method is to do a variation on "couponing", where radio ads include a discount offer if the customer mentions the name of the station where he heard the ad that got him to visit the business. If a commercial on a particular station attracts buying customers, that's what really counts.

You also don't like NPR, and they don't use ratings at all.

I don't like NPR's newscasts because of how biased they are. It has nothing to do with why they are biased. And, I usually enjoy public radio programs like Fresh Air, Car Talk, Prairie Home Companion, and the Splendid Table.

 

[ok walters]

www.krud.com

It ain't just me.

Nope, but the other 224 million seem to be okay. Ever think for just one minute that you are in the minority? Well, you are. There are also people who like polka music, but they are in the minority too. Just because you want it doesn't make it appealing to the masses.

 

[Avid Listener]

Radio is doing everything wrong if you listen to the experts who are not in the business on this board. There are a pile of posts in this thread covering everything - promotion, programming, sales, ratings, signal coverage, corporate owners, etc. - and there has been not one thing positive said by any of you about anything.

Find me a radio station with a signal I can pick up near where I live that has a big playlist of music I like (and I have broad and eclectic tastes) and that doesn't bore me playing the same old songs over and over and over and over until I want to puke, and I'll praise it.

 

[TheBigA]

One simple method is to do a variation on "couponing", where radio ads include a discount offer if the customer mentions the name of the station where he heard the ad that got him to visit the business.

Except that has nothing to do with music, which is the subject here.

I don't like NPR's newscasts because of how biased they are.

You don't like NPR News for the exact same reason that you don't like certain radio formats: Because they don't cater to your particular taste. It's not about them. It's about you and your perception. And it's very clear in all of your posts.

 

[ok walters]

I not only mentioned a station that failed, I mentioned WHY it failed. But YOU can't accept that because YOU can't address it. Would YOU listen to a station that played the same song FOUR times? Would YOU listen to a station that repeated commercials for 30 minutes straight? Would YOU listen to a station that had double audio and you couldn't reach anyone on the phone to get someone to correct it? No matter how much you dumb down your listeners, they likely won't stay with you through all of that. All of this is just as bad (if not worse) than playing a "stiff" yet you STILL have no answer for it. And your hero pointed out that the station was doomed to failure REGARDLESS of the format, yet you just ignore that, too.

You must drive a DODGE because you have been awfully good at DODGING issues here. Denial is not just a river in Egypt. All you do is come on here like a cheerleader for David and the Big A and just parrot everything that they have said. I can see you on the sideline waving your pompoms for them right now. You keep repeating THEIR stats and figures, yet you have none of your own. Your next original idea will be your first.

YOU picked the station that did all of those things as an example, not me. You even admitted that some of it happened before the format you liked was even on, but still claimed it was the reason the format failed. You could have cited other stations but you didn't - your choice. As far as my "hero" claiming it would fail regardless of format - how is it doing now? Still chugging along I am sure, so no it didn't fail after the format was changed.

No dodging or parroting either. You ever think for one minute that we are saying the same thing because that is the right answer? The long term industry people are telling you the same thing over and over and over yet you are the one still in denial. Ever think that there isn't anything new to report? As BigA said - whatever idea you may have it has already been tried and the results are in. When you attack the messenger as you are continuing to do, it shows you have no argument. Corporations with billions - yes billions - invested are going to do things according to what established information like ratings and music research tells them to do not what one person's personal tastes are. You and Avid have belittled EVERYTHING that has been stated here about how the industry works, yet all you have is emotion and name calling - no facts at all, just personal opinion and a bunch of stuff about a station that doesn't even play the format you want. If what you are saying actually had merit, there would be many stations doing what you are asking for yet few if any are. So the people with all the money on the line are doing what is best for them and their investment, but all you can do is say they are wrong. Heck, Avid claims to be able to write several books about what is wrong. You know what is wrong? Claiming that 224 million people and companies with billions invested are all wrong and you and Avid have all of the answers if they would just listen.

So fire up the Ipod/CD player and head on over to the number one restaurant in the world - McDonalds - for some more sameness and repetition. I hope the line for that sameness isn't too long though - it usually is because most people don't have a problem with it.