Songs You Remember And Like But Never Get Played

[landtuna]

Not to mention that country concerts I have attended have very little "Dukes of Hazard" types and very few, if any, drunks. For the more than 25 years that I have been involved with country or followed the music, I've found the concert crowd to be perhaps the best behaved of anyone except, perhaps, symphony orchestra attendees.

I was addressing the age of the attendees more than their behavior.

 

[TheBigA]

I'm pretty sure average attendance at concerts relates to average listener base.

Based on what? I see radio demos, and I'm here to tell you people your age listen to country radio. It's a documented fact. You can believe it or not. They also listen to several other currents-based formats, not just classic hits or classic rock.

 

[oldies76]

Where did 400 songs come from? Who said that was adequate, or did you just come up with that number? Seems a little low, but the playlist definitely shouldn't be in the thousands as you seem to suggest.

And yes, I will say fire up whatever personal music player you like as you have repeatedly stated radio doesn't satisfy you, so why keep beating a dead horse. McDonalds doesn't satisfy some people either, but they still are the biggest despite those people not being customers.

The concensus is that once Rick Thomas took over KRTH around Labor Day last year, the playlist was slashed to around 400 songs vs. 800+ when Jhani Kaye was PD.

Rick eliminated 90% of the 60's and replaced them with fewer 80's to somewhat compensate for the missing 60's and early 70's he eliminated. David suggests up to 900 songs are on KRTH, with the first 400 as the main rotated music, meaning the other 500 are their versions of lost hits or lesser-played songs. I have my doubts on the 900 figure. If the #600 - #900 songs are indeed being played, then it's once in a blue moon for KRTH. I'm referring to the everyday rotated songs, not the once a month songs.

No, I did not come up with that number. It was mentioned on other threads here and boards, such as R.I. and XMfan. In fact, when Jay Coffey was PD, again the number was around 350-400 titles.

 

[landtuna]

Based on what? I see radio demos, and I'm here to tell you people your age listen to country radio. It's a documented fact. You can believe it or not. They also listen to several other currents-based formats, not just classic hits or classic rock.

Not arguing with you but read my original post again and this time notice the word "average".

 

[oldies76]

You're attempting to make fact out of your own personal preference. You say "Listeners get tired....," but you don't have any numbers. No facts. What you're really saying is "I get tired of...." That's all you can speak to factually. And remember, I have the numbers that say otherwise. I have 60 years of studies that say people like what they like. If that means hearing the same songs every hour, every day, over and over, that's what it means. And there are people who do that. Lots of people.

The main problem with playing "lost hits" is they take the place of playing ACTUAL hits. So you're telling us, with no factual basis, that we should replace an actual hit with one of your personal favorites because listeners get tired of hearing the hits. That's basically what you're saying. My response is: Then they shouldn't be listening to a format that's called "Classic hits." What you want is another format. You want eclectic stuff. What you want is MyRadio.com It's not Classic Hits, because it's filled with non-hits that distract the listeners from the kind of entertainment they expect from classic hits. Sure, you'll enjoy it for a day. Then you'll get tired of the repetition of the lost hits we're playing. Then you'll complain about that.

So, the people I've spoken to about classic hits over this last year, that have complained about repetition and the fact their favorites are never aired, did you count them too? Are they in your numbers?? Did you count Firepoint's as well in Tennessee? Avid's??

Lost hits are a feature in addition to the well-tested songs being played. Instead of drowning us with "Hotel California" 4x a day, play it twice and use the extra 13 minutes for 4 other songs (at 3 minutes each) that are rarely heard. And do this with all the other multi played songs as well. See where I'm coming from?

And no, I'll never tire of the lost hits, because that's my preference. I prefer a mix of songs, not the same 400 songs played weekly. Once again, when KRTH played it's "eclectic" stuff in the 80's, I never complained. If radio was like this today, I would not complain.

If I heard "Love is Blue", "Hotel California", "Dreams, "My Sweet Lord", "One Less Bell to Answer", "Welcome Back", Moonlight Feels Right", "Lost in Love", "One Thing Leads to Another", "Trouble", "Hey Jude", "Cherry Hill Park", "I'll Be Around", "Fire Lake", "Too Much Too Little Too Late" and 'Emotional Rescue" in a one hour set, to myself and others, that would be radio. Take out the lost hits and it becomes boredom.

I only complained when the playlists were slashed and the weekends became "non-specialty".

 

[oldies76]

but the playlist definitely shouldn't be in the thousands as you seem to suggest.

The playlist should be your core songs, the other 2000-4000 songs should be just as available, as needed for weekend features, lost 45's, or if a request is taken. Once again, any song is playable today, it just has to be played at the right time. Radio can be that way once again. Some small market stations are already that way. It can be done.

 

[TheBigA]

So, the people I've spoken to about classic hits over this last year, that have complained about repetition and the fact their favorites are never aired, did you count them too? Are they in your numbers?? Did you count Firepoint's as well in Tennessee? Avid's??

They may be in the 7% of the population that has chosen not to listen to OTA radio.

I once hosted an all request show. People would call in with their favorites, and our policy was to play them in order. That often led to a delay between when we received the request and when it got on the air. I'd often get calls from requestors hours later asking why we didn't play their song. I told them the exact time when it aired, and it turned out they missed it. I give that example to illustrate that even when we go out of our way to play specific songs requested by listeners, it's very likely that they won't hear it. People have lots of other things to do besides listen to the radio. Whether or not we play their favorites isn't as important to most of them as the overall mood and theme of the station. They're tuning in because we play the general category of music they like. Not the specific songs. We see this in survey after survey. Not that our facts and survey numbers mean anything to your personal opinion. But the point is we talk to a lot of people a lot of the time, and have a pretty good idea of what they want to hear, and our track record is extremely good.

 

[davideduardo]

The concensus is that once Rick Thomas took over KRTH around Labor Day last year, the playlist was slashed to around 400 songs vs. 800+ when Jhani Kaye was PD.

I've told you several times that, while there are about 450 titles played in a 7 day period, if you go to a 14 day period, the total increases to about 800 songs.

David suggests up to 900 songs are on KRTH, with the first 400 as the main rotated music, meaning the other 500 are their versions of lost hits or lesser-played songs. I have my doubts on the 900 figure.

There are over 800 songs on a "last two week" BDS report. If you have any trouble, complain to Nielsen, the owners of BDS.

And those "other" songs are simply in lighter rotations.

If the #600 - #900 songs are indeed being played, then it's once in a blue moon for KRTH. I'm referring to the everyday rotated songs, not the once a month songs.

Even an AC station or a Jack station does not rotate all the songs in a single day. They may be songs that play once a day, others every 36 hours or so, others at 2 days and all the way out to 8 or 10 days on some.

No, I did not come up with that number.

Then you should avoid repeating false statements.

 

[oldies76]

You really haven't worked in radio. You were a board op who never worked at a station that got ratings. You don't know what it's like to actually have success in radio. To see your ideas actually succeed. I don't care what your reasons were for quitting, but don't say your worked in radio, and use that as a basis for anything. Until you can show me a list of stations you programmed, and how your programming ideas made your station #1, it don't mean crap.

Excuse me A, small market radio (the kind that Firepoint worked at) is just as radio as KRTH 101. Whether a board op, production assitant or a PD, it's all radio. Yes, bigger stations require more from a business and financial standpoint, but working at a smaller one is just as fun or even better. At least you're not under the gun, like a K-Earth or CBS-FM. It's still broadcasting though.

Btw, working at KWVE 107.9 from 1987 to 1993 is a highlight. And it was in Southern California, competing against other Contemporary Christian stations in the LA basin. Unfortunately I do not remember the ratings deal of it, since quite frankly, we were rarely told, but I'd bet we were ranked. Maybe David could highlight the ratings, if he has access to that information, from that time.

So yes, Firepoint and myself have worked in radio. Maybe not in the grand scale, but it's still radio. And who cares if we were not #1....If we were top 10 or 15, that's be nice too. So, to say that Fire was not in radio, is just wrong. We're all on the same team, if you think about it.

 

[davideduardo]

Excuse me A, small market radio (the kind that Firepoint worked at) is just as radio as KRTH 101. Whether a board op, production assitant or a PD, it's all radio. Yes, bigger stations require more from a business and financial standpoint, but working at a smaller one is just as fun or even better. At least you're not under the gun, like a K-Earth or CBS-FM. It's still broadcasting though.

I believe that radio is radio whether AM, FM, satellite or streaming and I also agree that radio has the same goal of pleasing listeners, whether in large and small markets. But large markets have loads of competitors, and audiences are fragmented. In small markets, stations often have to be broader and in the smallest, they must try to please nearly everyone.

Personally, I've never thought that working for no money with no benefits in Barstow or Big Rapids or Sanford or Elko was much fun. And I found, when I built some smaller market stations, I found that they took, if anything, more work than my large market stations while making very little money.

Btw, working at KWVE 107.9 from 1987 to 1993 is a highlight. And it was in Southern California, competing against other Contemporary Christian stations in the LA basin.

KWVE does not even compete in the LA basin. It is directional, and the 65 dbu does not even cover northern Orange County. It's population coverage is 2.6 million in that 65 dbu signal, half of which is not in the LA MSA.

Unfortunately I do not remember the ratings deal of it, since quite frankly, we were rarely told, but I'd bet we were ranked. Maybe David could highlight the ratings, if he has access to that information, from that time.

KWVE, being non-commercial, was not listed in Arbitron's "paper book" in that period. Once we got Maximiser in the mid-90's, we could see KWVE to be around a 0.3 to 0.4 share station, a level it sustains today. That's somewhere around 40th to 50th in the market.

So yes, Firepoint and myself have worked in radio. Maybe not in the grand scale, but it's still radio.

But the point is that you did not have to deliver results or profits such as a PD or a GM would. So when you argue about variety and deep cuts, you speak in the same voice as the Top 40 DJ who says the same songs play too often when the listeners don't think they play enough!

And who cares if we were not #1....If we were top 10 or 15, that's be nice too. So, to say that Fire was not in radio, is just wrong. We're all on the same team, if you think about it.

In this argument, you are like the pre-school kids in a home. You are part of the family, but don't even know about the mortgage and share in few of the tasks and responsibilities. And, if there is any discipline in the home, you know where you are in the food chain, too.

 

[TheBigA]

We're all on the same team, if you think about it.

If you spent any time at all in radio, you should know how to present your programming ideas. So far you've done a terrible job.

If you want to get something done IN ANY BUSINESS you need facts. Opinions are like noses...everybody's got one. To convince an owner that you're right, you need very clear numeric proof that what you say will improve his profits. No proof, no job. So far, none of you have given us any proof. In the meantime, our programming ideas are delivering great ratings and profits at stations you dislike. I'd say you have a pretty tough job.

 

[ok walters]

Excuse me A, small market radio (the kind that Firepoint worked at) is just as radio as KRTH 101. Whether a board op, production assitant or a PD, it's all radio. Yes, bigger stations require more from a business and financial standpoint, but working at a smaller one is just as fun or even better. At least you're not under the gun, like a K-Earth or CBS-FM. It's still broadcasting though.

Btw, working at KWVE 107.9 from 1987 to 1993 is a highlight. And it was in Southern California, competing against other Contemporary Christian stations in the LA basin. Unfortunately I do not remember the ratings deal of it, since quite frankly, we were rarely told, but I'd bet we were ranked. Maybe David could highlight the ratings, if he has access to that information, from that time.

So yes, Firepoint and myself have worked in radio. Maybe not in the grand scale, but it's still radio. And who cares if we were not #1....If we were top 10 or 15, that's be nice too. So, to say that Fire was not in radio, is just wrong. We're all on the same team, if you think about it.

So with that logic, if you ever flipped a burger at McDonalds then you know all about the restaurant business, including where to put new restaurant locations and what items to offer on the menu. Wow.

 

[Avid Listener]

So with that logic, if you ever flipped a burger at McDonalds then you know all about the restaurant business, including where to put new restaurant locations and what items to offer on the menu. Wow.

If you've ever EATEN in a restaurant, you should be able to tell good food from swill.

If only people who have worked in radio should comment on radio's product output, then only musicians who have actually recorded a hit record should comment on whether or not a song is a hit.

 

[oldies76]

So with that logic, if you ever flipped a burger at McDonalds then you know all about the restaurant business, including where to put new restaurant locations and what items to offer on the menu. Wow.

I've already told you what I did in radio, If you want to ridicule it.....be my guest! And it shows.

 

[Tibbs4]

Hey Oldies - Looking at your list of songs that started with "Love Is Blue" through "Emotional Rescue," I note that Hippie Radio 94.5 plays everything except the Fixx, Air Supply and "Fire Lake." The music for this station fades toward 1978-1979 explaining why some of it is absent. It is indeed about 2,000 songs and you will not hear "Hotel California" three times a day. There are exceptions to the 400-900 rule. This is one. Plus, the music is ebbing and flowing, to give some of those burned out songs a small break. Still, people expect those songs or they think the station is missing the mark. Just not every hour. And for what it is worth, "Love Is Blue" gets requests every week and it may have less recognition, but it works!

Note that this is a 12kw stand alone station that has to be unique (not perfect) to engage the local market and appeal to the local audience that no one else is allowed to format toward in 2014. Doesn't hurt that lots of local business owners just happen to fit into that demo.

Firepoint, my friend, I heard Jet 100.7 driving in through Niceville/Crestview FL. I heard "Jet Airliner" and yes, dead air and that was about it. Will listen today. The FL Panhandle is notorious for having a station on EVERY frequency. They may be distant, but they are there. We are at Seaside, so we are right in the middle of the Mobile/Pensacola, Destin/Fort Walton Beach, Dothan and Panama City markets with a little hint of Tallahassee. The retirement down here idea is a solid one! Gotta pick your spot carefully. Spring Break at PCB is a good example of where NOT to go! .

 

[ok walters]

I've already told you what I did in radio, If you want to ridicule it.....be my guest! And it shows.

Not ridiculing anything - if you have never run or owned a station then you didn't see the whole picture. Just like the guy flipping burgers didn't see the whole picture either. How could you have a full understanding if you don't know what the station's ratings were? No way to know what was actually working or not as you didn't have a full view from your position. It is a business and if you never saw the financials or the ratings and were never part of any decisions on how to deal with those items then you would have a hard time understanding what works and what doesn't.

 

[ok walters]

If you've ever EATEN in a restaurant, you should be able to tell good food from swill.

If only people who have worked in radio should comment on radio's product output, then only musicians who have actually recorded a hit record should comment on whether or not a song is a hit.

Anyone can tell good food, but would that qualify you to write the menu?

Whether a song is a hit or not is easy to tell as we have surveys that are very clear - no one needs a musician to figure that out. You can comment all you want whether you work in the business or not, but your understanding of why radio isn't doing what you personally want isn't there as you haven't been a part of that side of the business. The biggest mistake made in radio is programming to your personal taste and ignoring what years of research and trial and error have shown works the best.

Yep - you were in radio, but by your own admission not in a position where you would have a full view of what was going on.

 

[TheBigA]

At one time I was a smoker. My friends who still smoke tell me there's no one more annoying to a smoker than an ex-smoker.

 

[davideduardo]

I've already told you what I did in radio, If you want to ridicule it.....be my guest! And it shows.

We are putting it in perspective.

And your misunderstanding of the station you worked for is monumental.

You stated KWVE competed with other Christian Contemporary stations in the LA Basin. In fact, the station was directional away from Los Angeles and has no usable signal anywhere in LA County. It does not even cover northern Orange County well. It's market is southern Orange County and the southwestern section of Riverside County.

You did not know your technical facility nor its market area. You thought you were "competing" with stations that were, in fact, not your competitors.

You did not know that in that period non-commercial stations did not appear in the printed book, and had no idea of what the listening might have been.

In fairness, neither did I in my first years in radio. But I made an effort to learn.

So the point is that you were not availed of the operating details and parameters of the station you were employed at. You may have learned some tasks within a station but, just as assembling a bookcase does not make you an architect, you did not learn about the operations of radio.

 

[oldies76]

It is a business and if you never saw the financials or the ratings and were never part of any decisions on how to deal with those items then you would have a hard time understanding what works and what doesn't.

Being employed as a PT board op mainly on weekend afternoons and one or two other graveyard shifts a week (12midnight-6am) for seven years, I suppose very little was relayed to us at the time. It was fun though.

It was run by CCCM (Pastor Chuck) and still is I believe.