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CBS needs to drop talk on 1210 WPHT

In the insular world of media, perhaps that's all that matters. I've worked in advertising. Smoke and mirrors also matter in that field.

You missed the point in order to be dismissive, now, of two industries.

If a simple station-conducted polling can predict overall rank and movement of stations with great correlation to "professional" ratings, then those ratings can not be dismissed as irrelevant or wrong.
 
In 1992, the LA Times referred to Leykis as "the market's top rated afternoon talk-show host".

I assume that to mean that Leykis was #1 within the talk format, beating KABC in a particular book. He certainly was not #1 among all formats.
 
You missed the point in order to be dismissive, now, of two industries.

Noting that two industries use a lot of smoke and mirrors to do what they do is not being "dismissive" of them. Both the broadcast media and the advertising industry benefit the nation's economy and accomplish useful things. But neither of them could be compared to industries that deal in real, solid, tangible, and genuinely measurable products. Radio ratings reveal how many radio sets are turned on. They don't reveal how many people are listening, let alone who those people are. They don't even reveal if the radio is simply turned on with the volume to almost inaudible just to break up the silence.

If the techniques to make every radio station a ratings winner were truly scientific, measurable, and repeatable, then every radio station in every market would be tied for #1. And if the techniques to measure advertising's effectiveness were truly scientific, measurable, and repeatable, no ad agency would ever lose a client to a different ad agency.

Research is one tool that is helpful in both broadcasting and advertising, but it's only one tool, not THE tool. Nothing is better than gifted intuition, the so-called "golden gut", that some people have and some people don't. That's the difference between art and science. Broadcasting and advertising are both much more art than science.
 
Radio ratings reveal how many radio sets are turned on.

Wrong. Radio ratings are personal. They measure what each person on a PPM (The first "P" stands for "Personal") household panel listens to, based on actual detection of audio. They measure what each person in a diary household listens to, based on each person writing down their individual listening in a booklet.

There is no "set" measurement at all. The last time that was done was in the radio network days... about 6 decades or more ago.

They don't reveal how many people are listening, let alone who those people are.

Wrong. The radio ratings measure age, gender, ethnic group membership, language preference, income level, education level and geographic location.

They don't even reveal if the radio is simply turned on with the volume to almost inaudible just to break up the silence.

An inaudible radio will not be detected by the PPM device, and non-listening is seldom reported in the diary, which tends to only pick up top of mind "memorable" listening.

If the techniques to make every radio station a ratings winner were truly scientific, measurable, and repeatable, then every radio station in every market would be tied for #1.

Nobody said radio is pure science. Stations use research to determine what format to use, and then what songs to play and also what the feelings about DJs, and the overall station, are. Programmers use that data to build a competitive product. Not all formats have the same appeal or demos, so some will do better than others. Stations have the choice of going after a smaller audience group, knowing they will likely have no competitors or entering the competitive formats such as CHR, Hot AC, Country, AC and so on.

Nothing is better than gifted intuition, the so-called "golden gut", that some people have and some people don't. That's the difference between art and science. Broadcasting and advertising are both much more art than science.

Even those who are "naturals" in programming need guidance... research is part of it. And they need a good signal, promotional dollars, good management and a bit of luck. It's a combination of art and science, all the more so because advertisers need metrics to make buys and pure art does not focus on metrics.
 
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Wrong. Radio ratings are personal. They measure what each person on a PPM (The first "P" stands for "Personal") household panel listens to, based on actual detection of audio. They measure what each person in a diary household listens to, based on each person writing down their individual listening in a booklet.

There is no "set" measurement at all. The last time that was done was in the radio network days... about 6 decades or more ago.



Wrong. The radio ratings measure age, gender, ethnic group membership, language preference, income level, education level and geographic location.



An inaudible radio will not be detected by the PPM device, and non-listening is seldom reported in the diary, which tends to only pick up top of mind "memorable" listening.



Nobody said radio is pure science. Stations use research to determine what format to use, and then what songs to play and also what the feelings about DJs, and the overall station, are. Programmers use that data to build a competitive product. Not all formats have the same appeal or demos, so some will do better than others. Stations have the choice of going after a smaller audience group, knowing they will likely have no competitors or entering the competitive formats such as CHR, Hot AC, Country, AC and so on.



Even those who are "naturals" in programming need guidance... research is part of it. And they need a good signal, promotional dollars, good management and a bit of luck. It's a combination of art and science, all the more so because advertisers need metrics to make buys and pure art does not focus on metrics.

Whatever you say. Clearly, you are the grand exalted Poobah of radio and know all that there is to know. I'm surprised that everyone else in broadcasting doesn't just retire and let you run the industry.
 
Whatever you say. Clearly, you are the grand exalted Poobah of radio and know all that there is to know. I'm surprised that everyone else in broadcasting doesn't just retire and let you run the industry.

So this is how you react to being confronted with actual facts.

I'd suggest that you look at the Nielsen website... http://www.nielsen.com/us/en/nielsen-solutions/audience-measurement/nielsen-audio.html and read about methodology.

Or, look at the "Purple Book" which is the description of methodology that I have available on my website: http://www.americanradiohistory.com/research_arbitron.htm

The "Purple Book" is the third item on the left. There is a collection of additional ratings resources there. Elsewhere, there are ratings books and reports going back to the 30's.

My guess is that the nasty little troll that lives in you will not choose to read any of this, as you have decided that your separate reality is the true one. And, of course, you will snarl back with some further ad hominem or rejoinder.
 
So this is how you react to being confronted with actual facts.

I'd suggest that you look at the Nielsen website... http://www.nielsen.com/us/en/nielsen-solutions/audience-measurement/nielsen-audio.html and read about methodology.

Or, look at the "Purple Book" which is the description of methodology that I have available on my website: http://www.americanradiohistory.com/research_arbitron.htm

The "Purple Book" is the third item on the left. There is a collection of additional ratings resources there. Elsewhere, there are ratings books and reports going back to the 30's.

My guess is that the nasty little troll that lives in you will not choose to read any of this, as you have decided that your separate reality is the true one. And, of course, you will snarl back with some further ad hominem or rejoinder.

I learned a long time ago of the wisdom behind the adage, "Never ask a barber if you need a haircut". If anyone wants to know if any business does a good job in doing whatever it is that they do, you don't rely on the businesses own propaganda for proof or facts. According to the McDonald's website, their food is healthy and nutritious. According to the Monsanto website, "frankenfood" is good for you. According to the brochures and sales literature Ford produced about the Pinto back in the 1970's, it was a safe family car. According to Kim Kardashian's website, she is someone worth paying attention to.

As for methodologies, I've read more than a few articles about how statistics are gathered. According to the self-serving propaganda about the diary method, the diaries are distributed and people are asked to fill them out. I've been selected a few times to fill out a ratings diary, as have many of my friends. The incentives only ensure that the diary is filled out and returned. Usually, this is done at the last minute before sending it in, based on vague recollections. To be honest, more than a few of my friends who filled out ratings diaries enjoyed a good laugh at the local watering hole describing how they pranked the ratings people by posting what they thought were "funny" answers. If they incentives were attractive enough, they'd over-report how much time they spent listening to the radio. Even when honest, they'd report what station they were ignoring in the background as if they were actually listening. Regardless of what we people filling out diaries wrote down, the ratings people accepted them as if they were gospel truth.

I've seen some of the statistical tricks used to extrapolate demographic information. Based on ZIP code and address analysis, I am statistically counted as an African-American because of my "geo zone". But even more shaky is the PPM system that simply measures whether or not a station's buried digital code indicates that a radio is turned on to that station. Through some sort of voodoo or magick, the system can tell whether or not a household that has a radio turned on has people inside listening, and can separate that from people leaving their radio on while they're at work so their dog won't feel lonely.

And then there's the biggest fallacy of all. Since so much of the ratings data gathering is based on in-home equipment, there is a constant repetition of the mantra "Most listening is at home". Anyone who keeps their eyes and ears open can tell that most people only listen to the radio when they get in their cars, or if they have the radio on as background noise at work. The days of June Cleaver vacuuming and dusting in her heels and pearls as she listens to the radio at home are long gone, but that's the model that ratings assume is still common. Either that, or they imagine that the entire household gathers around the Atwater-Kent in the living room at night for some family radio listening.

The bottom line is that there is no process on earth that cannot be described by the people who profit from selling the output of the process cannot describe in such a way as to make it sound effective and fool-proof. Of course the Neilson website is going to make their methods sound like they produce only unimpeachable truths, engraved in stone and error-free. And of course people who earn big bucks by being able to "play the system" and exploiting its weaknesses will insist that whatever snake oil they are selling is guaranteed to work.

When I see evidence from a disinterested third party, some source that is objective and has no particular axe to grind, I will regard that evidence as persuasive. But when a man who wants to make $15 for giving me a haircut says I need a haircut, I'm going to consider his motivation for saying I need a haircut before I automatically believe him.
 
I've seen some of the statistical tricks used to extrapolate demographic information. Based on ZIP code and address analysis, I am statistically counted as an African-American because of my "geo zone".

GeoZones are used to insure geographic proportionality at a more granular level than the previously used county and HDHA and HDBA proportionality checks. Ethnicity is not determined by geography but during the recruit process where every respondent's age, race, gender and other characteristics are acquired by the recruiter.

But even more shaky is the PPM system that simply measures whether or not a station's buried digital code indicates that a radio is turned on to that station. Through some sort of voodoo or magick(sic), the system can tell whether or not a household that has a radio turned on has people inside listening, and can separate that from people leaving their radio on while they're at work so their dog won't feel lonely.

Here, again, you are just absolutely and totally wrong. Each member of a household or dwelling unit is issued their own PPM. They use it... or don't... on a daily basis. The PPM has a motion detector and Nielsen has algorithms that detect if the meter moves enough in a day for its detections to be "in tab" or part of the tabulated data. Household data is also subject to analysis to see if there is evidence of "cheating" to see if one person is carrying two or more meters.

Again, the radio is not measured. The individual is. And if the PPM does not move sufficiently, the data is not tabulated.

And then there's the biggest fallacy of all. Since so much of the ratings data gathering is based on in-home equipment, there is a constant repetition of the mantra "Most listening is at home".

The PPM is a pager-sized device that travels with the person it is assigned to. The only in-home equipment is the charger which allows the meter to wander around the planet until it needs another charge. The meter also has the ability to know if it is at home or away when it makes detections (and stations send their unique codes at a rate of about 13 a minute for each frequency, streams and HD channel).

The bottom line is that there is no process on earth that cannot be described by the people who profit from selling the output of the process cannot describe in such a way as to make it sound effective and fool-proof. Of course the Neilson(sic) website is going to make their methods sound like they produce only unimpeachable truths, engraved in stone and error-free. And of course people who earn big bucks by being able to "play the system" and exploiting its weaknesses will insist that whatever snake oil they are selling is guaranteed to work.

Take a look at the website of the MRC (http://mediaratingcouncil.org/), the entity financed primarily by ad agencies and their clients to insure that electronic media research is done in a way that, within the margins of error expected of a poll, is accurate and reliable for the buying of media.

As to all your BS about pranking the diary, Arbitron and now Nielsen have long had editing procedures that throw out diaries that do not meet particular criteria or which flag them for call-back for verification. Diarykeepers get a series of phone calls during the single week that they participate, too. The net result is that very few crank diaries make it through the system and, because each diary only affects a single week of the 12-week cycles, their effect on the results is negligible.

Oh, and the diary has columns for listening locations, so the data collected for the 200+ diary markets has quite accurate location information. You claim, in what is obviously an un-truth, to have had a diary. Were that true, you would have noticed that you were asked for demographic data and had to fill in listening locations. You would have seen that there were no places in the diary for "funny answers" as, other than the demographics, the diary is a daily "calendar" with spaces for stations and times, not "answers". Yes, there is a comments page at the end, but that is not tabulated in any manner. And you would have known that the diary household gets frequent preplacement, arrival and survey week phone calls to make sure the diary is filled in on a daily basis. You knew none of this, so you did not have a diary and did not participate in an Arbitron dairy survey.

Just the mere fact that you say you have been diary-surveyed several times and that "many of your friends" have been surveyed sounds like another of your fabrications. Each individual's probability of being surveyed in diary markets is once in about 70 years. The chances of several acquaintances being surveyed in the same time frame is highly improbable.

Obviously, you are making this up on the fly.

As I said, you would not even look at the reference material, but you would come up with some "conspiracy theory" to obfuscate the facts. And I was right.
 
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"Hot Talk" was mostly garbage Howard Stern imitators who deserved to be canned. They were awful. Real "hot talk" was done by guys like Tom Leykis who used to be #1 in PM drive in Los Angeles. He did politics and many other subjects in an interesting, up-tempo, in-your-face, humorous way. That's what "hot talk" really should've been, but the idiots in programming trying to clone Stern misunderstood what made Stern great. It wasn't the strippers, it was the funny banter that surrounded that nonsense. But of course, like the PD's who hired Rush clones based on ideology instead of personality, you had PD's putting guys on the air who were just dirty, offering little else.

You're right except for the part about Leykis being what Hot Talk should have been. Leykis is a phony wife beater.
 
You're right except for the part about Leykis being what Hot Talk should have been. Leykis is a phony wife beater.

Go listen to some of those shows he did on KFI back then, not the KLSX stuff.. It was energetic, young, entertaining, smart, funny, relatable, current-events-driven talkradio.

At the time, he represented very well at conferences and on-air exactly where talkradio needed to go. It just didn't go there. Instead it went in the direction many programmers feared it would go.
 
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Was that before or after he threw his wife into the fireplace?

I listened to a bit of a show on Youtube. It sounds like every other boring political talk show. At least he didn't do the fake voice back then, so there's that.

Your knowledge of Leykis's KFI show is apparently ZERO, so stop making cursory judgements based on little to no information--other than that he fought with his wife after a WRKO Christmas party in Boston 20 years ago.
 
I find it amusing that if anyone speaks against the industry's "conventional wisdom", if specifics are mentioned, then the rebuttal is something to the effect that the person bucking conventional wisdom doesn't see the bigger picture. But, if the objection is based on broad generalities, then the rebuttal is something to the effect that the person thinking outside the tiny little box doesn't know all the specifics.
 
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