Kimberly & Beck?

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Turn off the damn radio and go on with your life. Is that a clear enough answer for you?

Until we as a people stop looking to be offended at every little thing, we're doomed as a society.

Oh my friend. How unfriendly to the American way of life can you be. I don't care if I walk into a restaurant, a hotel lobby, a government tax collection office, or the front desk at a precinct of the local police. We are a nation that for 200 years has worked from the idea that we expect to treat the other guy with dignity, and we expect him to treat us with dignity.

Where do you come up with this concept that it is the duty of a person talking on the radio to be radical, rascally, and risque, and that it is the duty of the listener to enjoy being pissed on. Is that found somewhere in the Bill of Rights. Maybe a section the main body of the Constitution?

 

[Small Market Guy]

It's not about being offended. It's not "every little thing." It's one very specific thing.

Except every other week it happens again. In a month, some other jock is going to be in hot water for picking on some other special group. When does it stop?

I think a judge would agree.

I want to know SPECIFICALLY what they said that is legally actionable. Specifics, please.

 

[Small Market Guy]

Oh my friend. How unfriendly to the American way of life can you be. I don't care if I walk into a restaurant, a hotel lobby, a government tax collection office, or the front desk at a precinct of the local police. We are a nation that for 200 years has worked from the idea that we expect to treat the other guy with dignity, and we expect him to treat us with dignity.

This is the real world. Not everyone is going to like you. Grow up and get over it. In fact, I don't like you. You're condescending and think your "home spun" wisdom are somehow better than the opinions of anyone else here. But you don't see me trying to destroy your personal life. In fact, I wish you well in your personal life. That's what ADULTS do when they disagree with someone.

Where do you come up with this concept that it is the duty of a person talking on the radio to be radical, rascally, and risque, and that it is the duty of the listener to enjoy being pissed on. Is that found somewhere in the Bill of Rights. Maybe a section the main body of the Constitution?

Where in the Constitution do you get the idea that just because someone says something you don't like that you have the right to demand that they be personally destroyed? I don't like what these guys said either. But I am an ADULT and I don't go around telling other people what to do.

Only babies throw temper tantrums like these conflict merchants that go around demanding the firing of people do. Anyone in or related to this business who supports this thuggery should be ASHAMED.

 

[TheBigA]

Except every other week it happens again. In a month, some other jock is going to be in hot water for picking on some other special group. When does it stop?

It stops when DJs learn that picking on people for personal things isn't funny. It's not funny to laugh at people with big noses. It's not funny to laugh at people with various diseases. It's not funny to laugh at female athletes. It's not funny to laugh at people with sex changes. It's not funny. It's cruel. But some people don't understand that.

As I said earlier, who is the thug here? The person doing an unprovoked attack, or the person who was attacked? If I walk up to you out of the blue and hit you, I'm a thug. If you hit me back, that's self defense. But for people in radio, if you hide behind a microphone in a locked studio, you're exempt. I disagree with that. Everyone needs to learn how to take responsibility for what they do and say. Freedom comes with responsibility. That's what some have apparently forgotten. Maybe now they'll remember.

Now if Kimberly & Beck feel they were wrongly terminated, in actions caused by thugs, they're free to sue for wrongful termination. Then we'll see what a judge thinks. I don't expect them to sue.

 

[Small Market Guy]

As I said earlier, who is the thug here? The person doing an unprovoked attack, or the person who was offended?

The thugs in this case are the people who demanded that two radio hosts lose their livelihood. I believe I've been crystal clear on that. Comparing that to a physical assault is just plain stupid.

Freedom DOES come with responsibility. However, we're so far to one side of the scale that one or two people who are vocal enough can get a major market radio host fired. That's not how the system works, and you damn well know it.

Maybe next time it'll be a host that YOU like. Maybe next time it'll be YOU. Don't think it can't happen to you, because I guarantee there's something you do or say that will offend SOMEONE in today's overly sensitive world.

And I'll be right there defending them/you too. Because this HAS to stop before it destroys our business.

 

[flybynight]

It's not funny to laugh at people with big noses. It's not funny to laugh at people with various diseases. It's not funny to laugh at female athletes. It's not funny to laugh at people with sex changes.

Howard Stern has been hysterical commenting on ALL of those things over the years.

The problem with K&B was not the content, but the execution.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

The thugs in this case are the people who demanded that two radio hosts lose their livelihood. I believe I've been crystal clear on that. Comparing that to a physical assault is just plain stupid.

Freedom DOES come with responsibility. However, we're so far to one side of the scale that one or two people who are vocal enough can get a major market radio host fired. That's not how the system works, and you damn well know it.

I agree with your logic. After all the people who want the President to fire the retired general who runs the VA are a buch of thugs.

We're so far to one side of the scale that just a few people who are vocal enough think they can get a cabinet member fired. Now we all know that is not how the system works.

This post is brought to you by the "Goose and Gander Boutique Shop for Stupid Political Ideas". Discounts given to seniors every Wednesday.

 

[TheBigA]

The thugs in this case are the people who demanded that two radio hosts lose their livelihood. I believe I've been crystal clear on that.

You're crystal clear on completely missing the point. These two went on an unprovoked rant against minorities. For no reason. An assault is an assault, whether it's physical or verbal. The courts have already ruled that psychological abuse is the same as physical abuse. So don't throw that at me.

They didn't say they should lose their livelihood. All they called for is the pair to be fired. The two are now free to seek employment elsewhere. Although I hardly expect either of them will be hired. Who in their right mind would hire them? And how would their employer, who is a federal licensee using the public airwaves, justify keeping them? Explain that to me. Even if these people didn't call for the two to be fired, that still would have been the outcome, just based on what most employee handbooks say is proper decorum in the workplace.

I like Imus. But what he said was indefensible. Same with these two. As I've said before, this is not entertainment. This is not funny. They deserve what they got. Time to hire someone who has more respect for people. I'm sure there MUST be someone out there.

 

[Small Market Guy]

Howard Stern has been hysterical commenting on ALL of those things over the years.

The problem with K&B was not the content, but the execution.

I don't disagree with that. So fire them for going off format or talking too much. 12 minutes on a music show? Fine. Fire them for that.

I agree with your logic. After all the people who want the President to fire the retired general who runs the VA are a buch of thugs.

You're equating two dumb DJs calling someone a "nut job" to 40 dead veterans. On Memorial Day. Think about that. Then think if you'd said that on the air. What would you do when the VFW and Legion called for your firing?

You're crystal clear on completely missing the point. These two went on an unprovoked rant against minorities. For no reason. An assault is an assault, whether it's physical or verbal. The courts have already ruled that psychological abuse is the same as physical abuse. So don't throw that at me.

They didn't say they should lose their livelihood. All they called for is the pair to be fired. The two are now free to seek employment elsewhere. Although I hardly expect either of them will be hired. Who in their right mind would hire them? And how would their employer, who is a federal licensee using the public airwaves, justify keeping them? Explain that to me. Even if these people didn't call for the two to be fired, that still would have been the outcome, just based on what most employee handbooks say is proper decorum in the workplace.

I like Imus. But what he said was indefensible. Same with these two. As I've said before, this is not entertainment. This is not funny. They deserve what they got. Time to hire someone who has more respect for people. I'm sure there MUST be someone out there.

I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree since you're hellbent on destroying our business. There's no talking sense into you. Just hope that you don't offend the wrong person some day and the mob comes for YOUR job. Because you'll deserve it, after all.

 

[TheBigA]

I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree since you're hellbent on destroying our business.

I think attacking innocent people as entertainment is one thing that's destroying our business. I hear it too often. What gives us the right to think we can do that and not bear any consequences? We are public trustees, and this is not the way a public trustee should behave. And as I said earlier, if you work for a publicly held company, you have an employee handbook that identifies improper workplace behavior. Unprovoked attacks on other people are usually included in that improper workplace behavior.

By the way, mobs come for my job every day. It's what makes me so careful not to screw up. A good friend of mine got arrested once for DUI and he lost his job. Not because a group demanded it, but because his employer was a responsible broadcaster. That's what we need more of.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

You're equating two dumb DJs calling someone a "nut job" to 40 dead veterans. On Memorial Day. Think about that. Then think if you'd said that on the air. What would you do when the VFW and Legion called for your firing?

We are doing a lot of guessing with this example. If the waiting list thing is as bad as the headlines have made it out to be, then why haven't the VFW and the Legion been camped out on the steps of the VA building and the steps of the White House?

We should have been seeing pictures on the evening TV news of VFW & Legion folks observing their 127th day of camping on those steps. I don't doubt that they have been contacting congressmen and other things.... but if the hospital waiting list is as bad as some media folks make it out to be, where is the outrage?

We are going to get the story eventually. It has come out here in the Atlanta paper that a reporter (maybe a team of reporters) has been putting a story together for months. They pictured the lead reporter recently holding the printout of all the reports they have from across the nation of people experiencing unreasonable waits. These are the folks that also own WSB Radio and Channel 2 TV. They have the resources to dig things out like this. When they uncovered cheating on test scores in the local public school system, they blew the story big and wide. And when people gave them hell for making the Atlanta community look bad, they set about investigating the schools all across the nation and turned up a national trend for inflatred test scores.

I'm looking forward to the day when they drop the shoe and we get to see just how bad the waiting lists are, and what caused people all across the nation to adopt the same kind of evil thing. There have to be some whistle blowers with a hair-trigger reaction. Some of the current stories are about whistle blowers... but I have seen the story where the whistle blower explained why, why, why they waited and waited and waited to blow the whistle.

I think the story in the end may be a bit different than what many people are assuming the story is going to be.

But even if the story comes in less drastic than what is currently expected, it still is going to be an ugly story.

Then we will know who should be fired. Maybe who should go to jail?

But my main thrust in this is not to be protective of the Obama Administration. My main outrage at this point is: "Where has the media been up until now?"

 

[flybynight]

By the way, mobs come for my job every day. It's what makes me so careful not to screw up. A good friend of mine got arrested once for DUI and he lost his job. Not because a group demanded it, but because his employer was a responsible broadcaster. That's what we need more of.

Let's be honest: Many broadcasting companies (and I use that term very loosely) will not always fire a host because of any public outcry, but instead because of the potential for public outcry--or for that matter, potential sponsor outcry. That person who was fired because of the DUI? That's not management deciding their station is so sacrosanct that a convicted drunk driver shouldn't be allowed on the air. That's really just management worried that word will leak out that they have a convicted drunk driver on the air. I wonder how many times the managers above him drove drunk? I wonder how many of them text while driving, which is much more dangerous.

It's about public perception, not morality.

I think many people who have spent time on the air in the talk format can tell you of a multitude of situations where they caught heat from management over much more innocuous material than what K&B did. There is, however, a peculiar line between rock and talk. While talk can cover a lot of controversial material on a regular basis, rock format morning shows generally seem to be able to get away with much more edgy material.

 

[Small Market Guy]

By the way, mobs come for my job every day. It's what makes me so careful not to screw up. A good friend of mine got arrested once for DUI and he lost his job. Not because a group demanded it, but because his employer was a responsible broadcaster. That's what we need more of.

And you're comparing something that is illegal with being "mean".

 

[Small Market Guy]

We are doing a lot of guessing with this example. If the waiting list thing is as bad as the headlines have made it out to be, then why haven't the VFW and the Legion been camped out on the steps of the VA building and the steps of the White House?

We get it. You don't believe that 40 veterans died because of these secret lists. Fine. For the sake of argument, just assume that it's true. Now assume you just (on air) compared WORDS from a couple of dumb DJs with 40 dead veterans. Obviously you didn't MEAN anything ill from this, but someone could read about it on the Internet and demand you be fired.

You don't see anything wrong with that picture?

 

[SirRoxalot]

Smalls, they attacked a KID - a high schooler. That alone should be enough to get them fired. Secondly, if Entercom didn't fire them, they likely would have faced a bunch of angry advertisers, along with a group of activists who simply wouldn't let the issue go quietly. All of that negatively impacts the bottom line.

These dopes aren't Stern. They don't have the numbers or revenue that can withstand that kind of downturn. If they've spiked their careers, it's because they don't have a body of work that says "This was an oops, but they're really good broadcasters." If that was the case, somebody else would scoop them up in another market. That could still happen, although I expect that they won't go as a team, and there will be a cooling off period.

BTW, there IS life outside of radio, and anybody who does this for a living really needs to consider other options from time to time. It's also pretty clear that there are a lot of good, experienced people on the beach who WON'T do 12 minutes of bad radio, and WON'T piss off sponsors and activists. K&B needed to keep THAT in mind before Kimberly lit the match, then threw on the gasoline.

In case you haven't been paying attention, intolerance of other peoples' private lives is OUT. Health care is a muddle at best, and negotiations between municipalities and unions are a minefield that smart broadcasters probably need to avoid. There are plenty of other topics that are much more universal. Somebody thought that they'd lay a little smack down and get people talking. Well, they did get people talking - mostly about what morons they were to pick on a high school kid ON THE AIR.

Even Lonsberry, who's got a LOT more pull than those two, got smacked for the remarks on his blog. And he didn't even attack a kid.

 

[TheBigA]

And you're comparing something that is illegal with being "mean".

No I'm demonstrating that being on the air is a responsibility.

 

[Small Market Guy]

Smalls, they attacked a KID - a high schooler. That alone should be enough to get them fired. Secondly, if Entercom didn't fire them, they likely would have faced a bunch of angry advertisers, along with a group of activists who simply wouldn't let the issue go quietly. All of that negatively impacts the bottom line.

These dopes aren't Stern. They don't have the numbers or revenue that can withstand that kind of downturn. If they've spiked their careers, it's because they don't have a body of work that says "This was an oops, but they're really good broadcasters." If that was the case, somebody else would scoop them up in another market. That could still happen, although I expect that they won't go as a team, and there will be a cooling off period.

BTW, there IS life outside of radio, and anybody who does this for a living really needs to consider other options from time to time. It's also pretty clear that there are a lot of good, experienced people on the beach who WON'T do 12 minutes of bad radio, and WON'T piss off sponsors and activists. K&B needed to keep THAT in mind before Kimberly lit the match, then threw on the gasoline.

In case you haven't been paying attention, intolerance of other peoples' private lives is OUT. Health care is a muddle at best, and negotiations between municipalities and unions are a minefield that smart broadcasters probably need to avoid. There are plenty of other topics that are much more universal. Somebody thought that they'd lay a little smack down and get people talking. Well, they did get people talking - mostly about what morons they were to pick on a high school kid ON THE AIR.

Even Lonsberry, who's got a LOT more pull than those two, got smacked for the remarks on his blog. And he didn't even attack a kid.

You act like I'm defending what they said. I'm not.

I'm just sick of the outrage industry controlling every aspect of what we do. Just look at some of the things people who still work in radio have said here. They're in constant fear for their jobs because of these conflict merchants. That's no way to do business.

 

[Small Market Guy]

No I'm demonstrating that being on the air is a responsibility.

And the public at large has absolutely no responsibility? It's not stepping over the line when some jock is getting fired or suspended every other week because of complaints from people who have nothing better to do than get offended?


Since you're obviously on board with the mob up to this point, at what point will you get off the bandwagon? Firing for saying the word "hell"? For wishing someone "Merry Christmas"? Firing for hanging up on a rude caller? At what point will you actually side with the talent?

 

[TheBigA]

And the public at large has absolutely no responsibility?

Who's airwaves are they? The customer is always right.

Who attacked who first? You still don't get it. This was an unprovoked attack.

If a bunch of TG folks demonstrate in front of City Hall demanding free sex changes, then they open the door. They didn't do that here. From what I read in the Rochester City Paper, this kind of insurance coverage isn't unique in the state.

I side with the talent when the public is making an unprovoked attack. When they go after talent over something the talent has no control over. That wasn't the case here. If their boss approved this bit, then I side with the talent. If they went rogue, it's their butts.

 

[Small Market Guy]

Who's airwaves are they? The customer is always right.

You've obviously never worked in retail.

Who attacked who first? You still don't get it. This was an unprovoked attack.

I get it, I just don't care. It's WORDS. No one was harmed here. Having known a few people who have been through this sort of thing, there are a lot harder things about being transgender than two dumb radio jocks calling you a "nut job". There are REAL issues of discrimination going on. The professional outrage machine turning this into a huge issue to justify their very existence does the gay and transgender community a huge disservice.

I side with the talent when the public is making an unprovoked attack. When they go after talent over something the talent has no control over. That wasn't the case here. If their boss approved this bit, then I side with the talent. If they went rogue, it's their butts.

Fair enough. I expect to see you speak up next time someone makes an unprovoked and out of context attack on Rush right here on this board. You shouldn't have to wait long, so I hope you don't forget.