Wars have been started over words. The people who demanded them fired spoke words too. No requirement that anyone listen. The two have apologized. Those are just words too. Let's see if anyone rushes out and hires them. Maybe Salem.
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Kimberly & Beck?
- Thread starter therealjm12
- Start date
Wars have been started over words. The people who demanded them fired spoke words too. No requirement that anyone listen. The two have apologized. Those are just words too. Let's see if anyone rushes out and hires them. Maybe Salem.
Wars have been started over words. The people who demanded them fired spoke words too. No requirement that anyone listen. The two have apologized. Those are just words too. Let's see if anyone rushes out and hires them. Maybe Salem.
I don't think you understand the concept of balance. It's fine that the public have a say in who is on the air. But they have way too much say at this point.
This isn't just about radio. People are fired every day because the anonymous Internet mob outs them for perceived slights.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/28/trayvon-zimmerman-halloween-costume_n_4170528.html
Read that story. The MOTHER of those two guys was fired. She had absolutely nothing to do with the offensive behavior. Nothing. The mob bothered her employer until she was fired.
Tell me with a straight face that we haven't gone off the deep end with this outrage B.S.
If we don't stand up for the people in our industry we're ALL in danger.
Read that story. The MOTHER of those two guys was fired. She had absolutely nothing to do with the offensive behavior. Nothing. The mob bothered her employer until she was fired.
That's a different situation. As I said, I side with the talent if they are just following orders or unfairly attacked.
That's a different situation. As I said, I side with the talent if they are just following orders or unfairly attacked.
But that's what is happening in today's world. That's why we have to stop giving in EVERY.SINGLE.TIME.
Let's use an example of a duo that has been fired a few times, Opie and Anthony.
Report that the mayor died in a car crash for April Fools without admitting it's a prank? Worthy of firing. (If they'd admitted it was a prank, I wouldn't fire them.)
Encourage a couple to have sex in a church. Worthy of firing.
Crazy homeless guy says crazy stuff about the Queen and Condi Rice? Not worthy of firing, but they got a month off. That was fair.
Contrast that with Imus, who was just an out of touch old coot trying to be hip and funny. He absolutely did not deserve to be fired. But Rev. Al came in with the shakedown machine, and Imus's employers caved.
Right now, the very first thing a lot of people think when they hear something they don't like is "FIRE! CRUSH! KILL! DESTROY!", instead of something productive. Maybe contact the station and ask to come on the show as a guest and talk about things. Take up a collection and buy some commercials to combat ignorance. These things require actual work. No one wants to work at settling differences anymore. They just want to personally destroy anyone who holds a different belief.
It all goes back to one thing. How freaking hard is it to turn off the radio?
It all goes back to one thing. How freaking hard is it to turn off the radio?
How hard is it to THINK before you speak? Who's supposed to be the professional here? If you're a pro, you know the game. You shouldn't be making the kind of radio that causes people to turn off the radio. That's a hard thing to defend to a GM or an advertiser. You want people to LISTEN and listen often. There are ways to do that. This is not one of them.
I don't care about all the other examples. I'm posting about this one. The other examples are from talk radio. This is supposed to be rock radio.
I don't care about all the other examples. I'm posting about this one. The other examples are from talk radio. This is supposed to be rock radio.
Now this is a legit point. As I've said before. Fire them for going off format. Talking too much. Not playing enough records. Whatever. What you don't do is immediately cave every time someone gets "offended".
I honestly don't care about this duo. What I do care about is empowering the mob mentality that is growing. None of us are safe. If you don't see this as a problem, if you think the "fire everyone" mob is going to stop until they're forced to stop, you are kidding yourself.
D
dand5780
Guest
For all of the people who say they should have been fired for talking too long or doing bad radio, I agree.
That's NOT why they were fired. They were fired because a bunch of thugs that want to stomp out all speech they disagree with demanded it.
If anyone doesn't see why this is dangerous, you're terribly ill-informed.
Let's get a few things straight. I think the segment STUNK. It was too long and not entertaining. I don't agree with what the jocks said. It was insensitive and didn't even really fit the format.
None of that matters. I don't go around demanding people get fired over WORDS unless they are slanderous (thereby opening the company up to liability issues) or an FCC violation.
I am thoroughly convinced that some of the people who want hosts fired for saying things they don't like actually WANT people fired because it will get their untalented butts off the beach.
BINGO
Now this is one of the most sensible posts I've read in this whole topic.
if you think the "fire everyone" mob is going to stop until they're forced to stop, you are kidding yourself.
What I've learned is that people will do whatever they want regardless of how you respond. You can't "force" people to stop. That's simply not human nature.
D
dand5780
Guest
There are people out there that want Rush Limbaugh fired. In fact, they wouldn't be happy unless his entire life was ruined, whether they listen to him or not.
Those types of people are the same ones complaining about Kimberly & Beck. Instead of turning them off, they want them gone.
And Small Market Guy, you're right. The people here don't understand, or can't grasp the concept of how dangerous this is.
Fire them by turning them off if you choose.
Those types of people are the same ones complaining about Kimberly & Beck. Instead of turning them off, they want them gone.
And Small Market Guy, you're right. The people here don't understand, or can't grasp the concept of how dangerous this is.
Fire them by turning them off if you choose.
Those types of people are the same ones complaining about Kimberly & Beck.
Factually speaking, no, they're not the same ones. I don't think Rush has stepped into the pile of doo yet. He's way too smart to make such a mistake.
D
dand5780
Guest
Factually speaking, no, they're not the same ones. I don't think Rush has stepped into the pile of doo yet. He's way too smart to make such a mistake.
So Sandra Fluke wasn't the victim of a radio rant?
It is the same type of people. People, or a sub-human species of some sort, that want to completely silence someone because they don't agree with, or don't like what they have to say.
But that's what is happening in today's world. That's why we have to stop giving in EVERY.SINGLE.TIME.
Let's use an example of a duo that has been fired a few times, Opie and Anthony.
Report that the mayor died in a car crash for April Fools without admitting it's a prank? Worthy of firing. (If they'd admitted it was a prank, I wouldn't fire them.)
Encourage a couple to have sex in a church. Worthy of firing.
Crazy homeless guy says crazy stuff about the Queen and Condi Rice? Not worthy of firing, but they got a month off. That was fair.
Contrast that with Imus, who was just an out of touch old coot trying to be hip and funny. He absolutely did not deserve to be fired. But Rev. Al came in with the shakedown machine, and Imus's employers caved.
Right now, the very first thing a lot of people think when they hear something they don't like is "FIRE! CRUSH! KILL! DESTROY!", instead of something productive. Maybe contact the station and ask to come on the show as a guest and talk about things. Take up a collection and buy some commercials to combat ignorance. These things require actual work. No one wants to work at settling differences anymore. They just want to personally destroy anyone who holds a different belief.
It all goes back to one thing. How freaking hard is it to turn off the radio?
You left out a big example of this: IMHO, one of the most talented and unique radio performers I have ever heard is/was the "Greaseman". The character he created back in the 70's, which grew into his entire schtick, was this Archie Bunker-like southern racisty kinda guy. It was always tongue-in-cheek. If you didn't know the show and the character, you would be outraged at some of the things he said---just as you would've Archie Bunker back in the day.
About 14 years ago, he made a flippant in-character racist remark about a black man dragged to death behind a pickup truck. As bad as that may sound, in-context as the Greaseman, it wasn't that outrageous. Doug Tracht, a/k/a "the Greaseman" by accounts of those who've known and worked with him, is one of the more decent guys you'll ever meet, yet this industry, in a fit of PC overreaction, threw him under the bus to a degree that disgusted me. Grease went on an apology tour that rivaled none. He went on every show he could, TV and radio, literally begging forgiveness. Still, many in this business, who haven't a shred of the talent he has, wouldn't give him an inch. Not an inch.
Greaseman was one of this industry's true gems, and he was treated like garbage by those with far less to offer.
Well, well. Twelve pages. One for every minute of Kimberly & Beck's on air bit that got them bounced. A round of subdued golf applause to the Disenfranchised Duo for putting a pulse back into this board.
While sorting through all the debate here, it might help to remember that 2014 is license renewal year for radio stations in NY state. Job One of a GM, OM and PD is to protect the license. Although the window for competing applications is closed, K&B's antics could have raised issues before the FCC. No licensee, large or small, with an army of attorneys or not, wants to stand before the FCC to answer for and defend a bit like this. When it comes down to choosing between air talent and the license, the license comes first. Sorry K&B, show's over. Best of luck in your future endeavors.
As to the Greaseman, he's a talented guy on the air and from what 99% of the people say, a decent guy off the air. And his mea maxima culpa tour was impressive and appeared to be sincere.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPcap/2000-03/09/041r-030900-idx.html
So what makes a person say outlandish stuff about race and gender when they know full well the only thing that will follow is a Level 5 sh*tstorm? How does any sane person rationalize making a quip about a black man being dragged to his death by a couple of rednecks, especially after a remark made years earlier about Martin Luther King. Worse, what makes a person not think about the ramifications of a quip or prolonged bit concerning race and gender?
It's hard to figure out how people with show much talent say such callous, stupid things. Greaseman has two major strikes against him. How long before Kimberly & Beck get another chance to step up to the morning drive plate is anybody's guess. As noted earlier, Job One is to protect the license. I don't see many PDs or GMs willing to put the license or their necks on the line for K&B. At least not without a massive insurance policy to indemnify the radio station in the event they again say something equally inane and offensive. Perhaps K&B also can purchase a policy indemnifying the station against damages caused by 12 minute bits, offensive or not.
While sorting through all the debate here, it might help to remember that 2014 is license renewal year for radio stations in NY state. Job One of a GM, OM and PD is to protect the license. Although the window for competing applications is closed, K&B's antics could have raised issues before the FCC. No licensee, large or small, with an army of attorneys or not, wants to stand before the FCC to answer for and defend a bit like this. When it comes down to choosing between air talent and the license, the license comes first. Sorry K&B, show's over. Best of luck in your future endeavors.
As to the Greaseman, he's a talented guy on the air and from what 99% of the people say, a decent guy off the air. And his mea maxima culpa tour was impressive and appeared to be sincere.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPcap/2000-03/09/041r-030900-idx.html
So what makes a person say outlandish stuff about race and gender when they know full well the only thing that will follow is a Level 5 sh*tstorm? How does any sane person rationalize making a quip about a black man being dragged to his death by a couple of rednecks, especially after a remark made years earlier about Martin Luther King. Worse, what makes a person not think about the ramifications of a quip or prolonged bit concerning race and gender?
It's hard to figure out how people with show much talent say such callous, stupid things. Greaseman has two major strikes against him. How long before Kimberly & Beck get another chance to step up to the morning drive plate is anybody's guess. As noted earlier, Job One is to protect the license. I don't see many PDs or GMs willing to put the license or their necks on the line for K&B. At least not without a massive insurance policy to indemnify the radio station in the event they again say something equally inane and offensive. Perhaps K&B also can purchase a policy indemnifying the station against damages caused by 12 minute bits, offensive or not.
D
dand5780
Guest
No licensee, large or small, with an army of attorneys or not, wants to stand before the FCC to answer for and defend a bit like this. When it comes down to choosing between air talent and the license, the license comes first.
Please forgive me as I have little knowledge about another department of the federal government that shouldn't exist, or maybe on a much smaller scale-but what do they have to answer to the FCC for as far as this 12 minutes goes?
Was anything said here that a talk show host might not have said?
Or is the license only in jeopardy when something that goes against the state is said, when something equally offensive that goes along with the agenda is ignored?
My wife once told me about her junior high phys ed teacher, who apparently had what we'd call "gender identity issues" today.
Was he an effiminate male or was she a masculine female? He'd/she'd drank herself to death before their time. Rumor was this person may have had both sets of reproductive organs...
Assuming gender reassignment surgery was available 40 years ago, might such a surgery have been medically indicated? And if so, why shouldn't it be covered? And is it possible there may be others like him/her?
This could've been a teachable moment...instead it was just twelve minutes of incredibly excruciating radio. I just listened to it.
How bad was it? Well, let's assume for a moment that Kimberly was correct...that only a nut job would want a sex-change operation.
HERE'S WHAT WE STILL HAVE!
1) Rambling thru multiple angles/tangents of the topic for...uh...TWELVE! minutes!
2) Insulting a local high school student repeatedly, exposing them to possible bullying and abuse even though the person/school wasn't specifically identified.
3) MOST!!! OF!!!! ALL!!!!! THE TOPIC WASN'T EVEN LEGITIMATE BECAUSE THE COVERAGE IS OPTIONAL AT EXTRA COST!!!!!
The offensive "nut job" comment was only the exclamation point on a topic that was at the very least misunderstood and/or poorly researched by the talent, and at the very most, falsified for the sake of "entertainment".
Finally, in this morning's Inside Music Media, Jerry Del Colliano put forth his suspicion that Entercom corporate is looking to cut high salaries and damn the consequences. If so, then K&B made it easy for Entercom to cut them and blame the offensive content, thereby saving its corporate face while it saves some bucks.
Was he an effiminate male or was she a masculine female? He'd/she'd drank herself to death before their time. Rumor was this person may have had both sets of reproductive organs...
Assuming gender reassignment surgery was available 40 years ago, might such a surgery have been medically indicated? And if so, why shouldn't it be covered? And is it possible there may be others like him/her?
This could've been a teachable moment...instead it was just twelve minutes of incredibly excruciating radio. I just listened to it.
How bad was it? Well, let's assume for a moment that Kimberly was correct...that only a nut job would want a sex-change operation.
HERE'S WHAT WE STILL HAVE!
1) Rambling thru multiple angles/tangents of the topic for...uh...TWELVE! minutes!
2) Insulting a local high school student repeatedly, exposing them to possible bullying and abuse even though the person/school wasn't specifically identified.
3) MOST!!! OF!!!! ALL!!!!! THE TOPIC WASN'T EVEN LEGITIMATE BECAUSE THE COVERAGE IS OPTIONAL AT EXTRA COST!!!!!
The offensive "nut job" comment was only the exclamation point on a topic that was at the very least misunderstood and/or poorly researched by the talent, and at the very most, falsified for the sake of "entertainment".
Finally, in this morning's Inside Music Media, Jerry Del Colliano put forth his suspicion that Entercom corporate is looking to cut high salaries and damn the consequences. If so, then K&B made it easy for Entercom to cut them and blame the offensive content, thereby saving its corporate face while it saves some bucks.
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You left out a big example of this: IMHO, one of the most talented and unique radio performers I have ever heard is/was the "Greaseman". The character he created back in the 70's, which grew into his entire schtick, was this Archie Bunker-like southern racisty kinda guy. It was always tongue-in-cheek. If you didn't know the show and the character, you would be outraged at some of the things he said---just as you would've Archie Bunker back in the day.
About 14 years ago, he made a flippant in-character racist remark about a black man dragged to death behind a pickup truck. As bad as that may sound, in-context as the Greaseman, it wasn't that outrageous. Doug Tracht, a/k/a "the Greaseman" by accounts of those who've known and worked with him, is one of the more decent guys you'll ever meet, yet this industry, in a fit of PC overreaction, threw him under the bus to a degree that disgusted me. Grease went on an apology tour that rivaled none. He went on every show he could, TV and radio, literally begging forgiveness. Still, many in this business, who haven't a shred of the talent he has, wouldn't give him an inch. Not an inch.
Greaseman was one of this industry's true gems, and he was treated like garbage by those with far less to offer.
This is a PERFECT example of why we can't let this sort of thing stand. I know we don't always agree, but Grease didn't deserve how he was treated ONE BIT.
But one thing I've learned about this industry, and it shows in some of the posts on this very board, is that radio people can be even more petty and childish than the public at large. Half of the people who threw Grease under the truck probably thought they could get and do his job. Same deal here. Two less people in the business to stand in the way of some untalented hack that's been on the beach since 1998.
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No licensee, large or small, with an army of attorneys or not, wants to stand before the FCC to answer for and defend a bit like this. When it comes down to choosing between air talent and the license, the license comes first. Sorry K&B, show's over. Best of luck in your future endeavors.
Please tell us exactly what this Rochester duo said that would be FCC actionable. Specifics, please? Because I'm pretty well studied on this sort of thing and I'm pretty sure "nut job" isn't one of the seven dirty words.
What I've learned is that people will do whatever they want regardless of how you respond. You can't "force" people to stop. That's simply not human nature.
Perhaps "forced to stop" isn't the right way to phrase it. All we can control is our own actions. So not allowing a bunch of grifters to run our business is how to stop them.
This is a PERFECT example of why we can't let this sort of thing stand.
"We" have no choice. People like to judge. That's what makes reality TV such a hit. You hold a contestant's life and career in your hand. With one call, you can make them Carrie Underwood, or a complete unknown. People love that power, and we the media give it to them. It brings us ratings.
You can hold your breath, stomp your feet, or post all day. It won't change human nature. And if you do something the public doesn't like, you'll see there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. You just ride the free fall to oblivion. Look at Donald Sterling. Who's defending him?
So not allowing a bunch of grifters to run our business is how to stop them.
It doesn't matter who "they" are. You can't control "them." You can only control yourself. And by yourself, I mean the DJs. Unless they were told to rant, they're on their own.
Ignore them? Great. They'll camp out in front of your building until the TV crews show up. They'll contact your stockholders. They'll challenge your license. Lots of things they can do. Not much YOU can do. The problem here is these two DJs left themselves no defense. The First Amendment is no defense, because everyone has it, including the people you've offended. Radio's rights are no more important than anyone else's. Especially when the people in radio were wrong.
It's kind of like trying to control terrorism. One general once said the problem is they know who we are, but we don't know who they are. Kill Osama, and you have 20 more new ones in a week. Like roaches.
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A couple of people here have lost sight of the #1 rule of radio today:
IT'S ABOUT THE MONEY.
It's not about music. It's not about art. It's not about public service. Radio is now a corporate monster, largely owned by overleveraged conglomerates who are more concerned about meeting convenants than serving the "public interest, convenience, and necessity".
These morons were going to cost their employers MONEY. They put THEMSELVES in jeopardy. Advertisers simply don't want to be associated with a rant like that. They REALLY don't want to become the target of a boycott by activist groups that speak as loudly as most LGBTQ groups these days. On top of that, it was BAD RADIO.
I don't know if this was simply the last straw, an excuse to dump a big salary, or an overreaction by management. I do know that even The Greaseman can have his career spiked for saying stupid things once too often. These dopes AREN'T The Greaseman. Even Stern fled to satellite for a reason. He was taking way too much heat on terrestrial radio. Mancow Muller faced the same situation. Imus and Limbaugh should be an object lesson for broadcasters on how quickly you can get in trouble. If you ain't got their numbers and their lawyers, you'll be gone a LOT faster than them.
Turn off listeners, and cost your company money, and YOU WILL BE FIRED. Professionals KNOW this, and ply their trade accordingly. If you want to be "edgy", work comedy clubs. Radio doesn't have to be boring, but it ain't a soapbox for a chosen few to test their First Amendment right to offend.
IT'S ABOUT THE MONEY.
It's not about music. It's not about art. It's not about public service. Radio is now a corporate monster, largely owned by overleveraged conglomerates who are more concerned about meeting convenants than serving the "public interest, convenience, and necessity".
These morons were going to cost their employers MONEY. They put THEMSELVES in jeopardy. Advertisers simply don't want to be associated with a rant like that. They REALLY don't want to become the target of a boycott by activist groups that speak as loudly as most LGBTQ groups these days. On top of that, it was BAD RADIO.
I don't know if this was simply the last straw, an excuse to dump a big salary, or an overreaction by management. I do know that even The Greaseman can have his career spiked for saying stupid things once too often. These dopes AREN'T The Greaseman. Even Stern fled to satellite for a reason. He was taking way too much heat on terrestrial radio. Mancow Muller faced the same situation. Imus and Limbaugh should be an object lesson for broadcasters on how quickly you can get in trouble. If you ain't got their numbers and their lawyers, you'll be gone a LOT faster than them.
Turn off listeners, and cost your company money, and YOU WILL BE FIRED. Professionals KNOW this, and ply their trade accordingly. If you want to be "edgy", work comedy clubs. Radio doesn't have to be boring, but it ain't a soapbox for a chosen few to test their First Amendment right to offend.
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