Classic Hits 80s

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Keep stirring folks. Memories, memories, memories.

I went to Memphis one day and wandered into Sun Studios. The ORIGINAL. The little storefront that sometimes shows up in music industry memory photos. The lady minding the store simply said "Help yourself." So I took a self-guided tour. And as I was making motions toward the door, she explained to me that the NEW STUDIO was under construction just down the street. So I did what I have spent a lifetime doing. I wandered through the new studio complex under construction. I guess today there would be locked gates, and someone yelling "Where is your hard-hat?" And I took a leisurely self-guided tour and I guess they were used to that because no one raised an eyebrow.

Never did get back to see the finished project. I guess that tour and its timing makes me a "Golden Oldie".

 

[davideduardo]

In the market I lived in, oldies were common throughout the 60s. Two of the main Top 40 stations were legendary (within the market) for their DJs who specialized in oldies. Both Porky Chedwick (WAMO) and Terry Lee (WMCK) built their reputations and following by featuring mostly oldies. The more established stations, KQV and KDKA followed suit. I remember oldies being a major part of programming from the time I started paying close attention to what was on the radio back in 1960.

I agree that KQV was THE Top 40 station. What I don't recall is KDKA being a full-fledged Top 40. It was like Westinghouse's station in Cleveland that you could not classify as MOR, but it wasn't ever the first or second Top 40 choice of younger people. KDKA and "the station formerly known as WKYC" were really closer to what we call AC today than Top 40.

WAMO was not technically Top 40. Most r&b stations at the time... and WAMO was definitely r&b right down to being repped by Bernard Howard... used mechanics very much like Top 40, but they were primarily Black targeted stations. Cleveland's WJMO, where I briefly worked, was a classic implementation of Top 40 formatics but playing r&b music.

In the early 60's, when WMCK was 1 kw day and night and missed most of the market, it's hard to consider it as a player. Even when NormBob bought it and made it a WIXY clone as WIXZ, it never did particularly well due to the signal.

All of that makes Pittsburgh a little different from other markets. It did not really have a big Top 40 battle like most large and medium markets had. And did not have a rep as having particularly good Top 40 radio until into the 70's with 13-Q and then Bob Pittman's WPEZ going at it.

 

[davideduardo]

And when the DJs played anything from the past, even if it was only one year old, they called them "oldies". Now, maybe that wasn't what the Official Disc Jockey Manual of Musical Nomenclature said were supposed to be referred to as "oldies". But that's what the DJ's called 'em. That's what we teenagers called 'em. And as far as I'm concerned, when I heard songs from the 1950's in the early 1960's, I was hearing oldies.

Perhaps that was a Pittsburgh thing, but if you go to Chicago they were "dusties" and in other places they were "gold" or "golden". Still other places used "flashback" as an identifier.

A lot of Top 40's, which were based on currents, did not like the "oldies" term because it projected the wrong image... thus the far more prevalent use of "gold" in different fashions.

I was working in DC in '69 when WMOD was programming what may have been the first gold format on FM and what became EZ Communications had "Million Dollar Music Weel" on AM. Neither station used the "oldies" term.

I think the "oldies" term became more widely used following the release of the first albums in Art Laboe's "Oldies but Goodies" (TM) series.

 

[semoochie]

In 1964, a 1963 song was called an oldie, at least where I lived. The "gold" term became more popular later on, possibly at least initially to separate those stations from the ones that said "oldie".

 

[Avid Listener]

I agree that KQV was THE Top 40 station. What I don't recall is KDKA being a full-fledged Top 40.

Perhaps that's because you didn't live in Pittsburgh in the 1960's, listening to Pittsburgh radio all the time, while I did live there.

Perhaps that was a Pittsburgh thing, but if you go to Chicago they were "dusties" and in other places they were "gold" or "golden". Still other places used "flashback" as an identifier.

What the hell difference does it make? The point is that the radio stations played older songs on the radio, so we heard both the new songs and the old songs, and often grew to like older songs that sounded good even though they were before our time.

Do you always have to be such a pedantic jerk?

In 1964, a 1963 song was called an oldie, at least where I lived. The "gold" term became more popular later on, possibly at least initially to separate those stations from the ones that said "oldie".

Exactly! It's good to see that someone gets what matters, even if Mr. Gleason doesn't.

 

[oldies76]

And when the DJs played anything from the past, even if it was only one year old, they called them "oldies". Now, maybe that wasn't what the Official Disc Jockey Manual of Musical Nomenclature said were supposed to be referred to as "oldies". But that's what the DJ's called 'em. That's what we teenagers called 'em. And as far as I'm concerned, when I heard songs from the 1950's in the early 1960's, I was hearing oldies.

Interesting point.....So, can today's kids say music from 2013 are "oldies" compared to 2014's hits? I bet many do! I've heard kids say (for songs just a few years old) that they are old. Same philosophy.

 

[John Gallagher]

Growing up listening to CKLW, among others, their weekend jocks were as good as if not better than the weekday personalities...(e.g.) Johnny Williams.
The Big 8 had a Million Dollar Weekend as I recall with jingle shouts that said "golden."

 

[davideduardo]

Interesting point.....So, can today's kids say music from 2013 are "oldies" compared to 2014's hits? .

"Oldies" is a dated term, mostly a "boomer" expression. "Old school" is a better term for today. "Throwback" is also quite used.

 

[davideduardo]

Perhaps that's because you didn't live in Pittsburgh in the 1960's, listening to Pittsburgh radio all the time, while I did live there.

I was close enough to get a decent groundwave signal daytime and a magnificant skywave signal at night. It was not a full-fledged Top 40, just as its sister Cleveland station wasn't. Very close... close enough to defy classification as a different format but just not the real thing.

What the hell difference does it make? The point is that the radio stations played older songs on the radio, so we heard both the new songs and the old songs, and often grew to like older songs that sounded good even though they were before our time.

The majority of Top 40 stations in the early 60's did not play oldies. The changes happened in the middle of the decade, with small amounts of gold being included, usually dayparted. A good description of how this happened is in Garay's biography of Gordon McLendon where he describes the changes to to the music and the implementation of dayparting in that same time period at KLIF in Dallas. Since KLIF was possibly the most influential station in the country from the mid-50's well into the early 70's, what they did pretty much became the policy in most of mid-America and beyond.

Do you always have to be such a pedantic jerk?

The ad hominem is the usual response to the act of losing an argument. You are making Pittsburgh radio to by typical and representative of what went on in the rest of America. The fact is that Pittsburgh was never an exemplary radio market in the 50's and 60's, likely due to the almost total lack of good signals and the perception that it was not a good stepping-stone market upwards for talent.

The fact is that most Top 40's did not play gold early in the decade, and the degree of play varied greatly from market to market. For example, 120 miles to the NW, none of the Top 40's added gold until the last half of the 60's and then only because Drake's CKLW started playing "gold" and since CKLW got good numbers in the western part of the market they were forced into gold play. But they did not use the "oldies" term.

I suppose it was "pedantic" to clarify that WAMO was an r&b station and not Top 40 or that the McKeesport station was just 1 kw. and did not serve most of the market in the earliest part of the 60's.

 

[davideduardo]

Growing up listening to CKLW, among others, their weekend jocks were as good as if not better than the weekday personalities...(e.g.) Johnny Williams.
The Big 8 had a Million Dollar Weekend as I recall with jingle shouts that said "golden."

Yep. "Golden" was the term apparently used by all the Drake consulted stations... if you read Jacobs' book on KHJ, they did not like the term "oldies" as it made the station sound dated.

 

[CTListener]

Growing up listening to CKLW, among others, their weekend jocks were as good as if not better than the weekday personalities...(e.g.) Johnny Williams.
The Big 8 had a Million Dollar Weekend as I recall with jingle shouts that said "golden."

That was the term WRKO (Drake again) used in Boston as well. In fact, I won the station's first album of songs of yesteryear, "30 Now Goldens," by being the 10th caller to 931-1668! That would have been in 1968 and the songs on it were mainly from 1965-1967, even though the "goldens" played on the station at the time were often from earlier, pre-British Invasion years.

 

[firepoint525]

Now, maybe that wasn't what the Official Disc Jockey Manual of Musical Nomenclature said were supposed to be referred to as "oldies". But that's what the DJ's called 'em.

Yeah, I still remember a dj on my local hometown station playing "Right Back Where We Started From" by Maxine Nightingale about three months after it was a hit (during one of those "solid gold weekends") and referring to it as "not too old gold." I would say that he nailed it. Too many on these boards overthink these types of things.

 

[Avid Listener]

Too many on these boards overthink these types of things.

You got that right! Especially the self-anointed "experts" who have to pick at nits while ignoring the important points. For most of the time span covered by the three decades listed in the description of this particular forum, most radio stations included many songs that were not new at the time that they were played. I don't much give a damn what you want to call those older songs. That's irrelevant and totally beside the point. What matters is that audiences in the 60's, 70's, and 80's, heard songs from earlier times, and became familiar with them, and often liked them! So, if anyone is programming a station to appeal to a certain age group, the songs that were new when that age groups was young should be included, but so should the songs that were old and yet still played on the radio when that age group was young.

It's amazing how so many people can get bogged down over minutiae and trivia in their attempts to make themselves appear to be the omniscient experts of all things radio, and yet they cannot recognize the truly important points laid out in the posts in here.

 

[oldies76]

You got that right! Especially the self-anointed "experts" who have to pick at nits while ignoring the important points. For most of the time span covered by the three decades listed in the description of this particular forum, most radio stations included many songs that were not new at the time that they were played. I don't much give a damn what you want to call those older songs. That's irrelevant and totally beside the point. What matters is that audiences in the 60's, 70's, and 80's, heard songs from earlier times, and became familiar with them, and often liked them! So, if anyone is programming a station to appeal to a certain age group, the songs that were new when that age groups was young should be included, but so should the songs that were old and yet still played on the radio when that age group was young.

It's amazing how so many people can get bogged down over minutiae and trivia in their attempts to make themselves appear to be the omniscient experts of all things radio, and yet they cannot recognize the truly important points laid out in the posts in here.

Radio / Music fans vs. the "Experts"

I think on these boards ever since it's inception in 2005, the "experts" have been trying to outdo us every time. According to them, we're usually wrong, whether it's ratings, playlists, rotations, programming methods, and now oldies played in the 60's on top 40 stations, this and that....etc...etc... There's always a reason contrary to our beliefs and experiences. It's gotten old. We are right. They may think not, but we are.

They don't realize that WE have recollections of what happened THEN too. If it worked in the 1960's or 70's, it can work today. But then again, tell NASA that, 1969 was eons ago.

Aahhhh, only 38 more posts........

 

[davideduardo]

Yeah, I still remember a dj on my local hometown station playing "Right Back Where We Started From" by Maxine Nightingale about three months after it was a hit (during one of those "solid gold weekends") and referring to it as "not too old gold." I would say that he nailed it. Too many on these boards overthink these types of things.

And that is just as KRTH, often discussed here, used to play "future gold" meaning "currents" in radio parlance.

"Not so old gold" is just a name for "recurrents" that listeners can relate to. Again, in both cases, it avoids the "oldies" term which Top 40's stations generally avoided strenuously.

 

[davideduardo]

It's amazing how so many people can get bogged down over minutiae and trivia in their attempts to make themselves appear to be the omniscient experts of all things radio, and yet they cannot recognize the truly important points laid out in the posts in here.

It is not minutiae and is not trivia to state that, until well into the 60's the immense majority of Top 40's played no gold and did not even play recurrents in most cases. And when they did, the smarter stations (Drake, et. al.) did not use any term based on the word "old" to identify them.

 

[davideduardo]

YWhat matters is that audiences in the 60's, 70's, and 80's, heard songs from earlier times, and became familiar with them, and often liked them! So, if anyone is programming a station to appeal to a certain age group, the songs that were new when that age groups was young should be included, but so should the songs that were old and yet still played on the radio when that age group was young.

And I have mentioned this point over and over during the last decade in different threads. Young people who listened to Top 40 in most markets got exposed to, at least, fairly recent gold. In some markets, they heard things that might be as much as a decade old. In other markets, and in certain executions of Top 40, no gold at all was played. For example, Mike Joseph's Hot Hits in the late 70's and into the 80's played no gold at all, and was really limited on recurrents.

The point being that people in certain markets and from certain markets did not necessarily all have exposure to the same songs. Until the late 70's, there was no library testing so each station went by ear on what to play and what not to play. With the extreme mobility of the American population, particularly in those years, you had huge percentages of the populations living in places where they did not grow up and they had different familiarities with gold based on what their teen years exposed them to.

 

[davideduardo]

Radio / Music fans vs. the "Experts"
They don't realize that WE have recollections of what happened THEN too. If it worked in the 1960's or 70's, it can work today.

Many things that worked in the 60's don't work today. Let's start with discrimination, exclusion of women from the workplace and racism.

Attitudes towards social issues have changed radically since the 60's. So have peoples tastes... even the tastes of people who grew up in the 60's. So there is a very fine filter that has to be applied when saying that something that once worked will work today.

And, unless independently confirmed, memory is a dangerous thing. Your personal recollections and personal music taste, unless shared by a very large group of people, are irrelevant to radio stations.

 

[oldies76]

Many things that worked in the 60's don't work today. Let's start with discrimination, exclusion of women from the workplace and racism.

We're talking radio, not social issues.

And, unless independently confirmed, memory is a dangerous thing. Your personal recollections and personal music taste, unless shared by a very large group of people, are irrelevant to radio stations.

If I recall something that happened way back when, it's certainly and no question 100% accurate, since it involved myself.
Radio fans don't really need confirmations, since they already remember it themselves, by their own minds. Memory (and memories) are a great thing. Everyone has their own personal recollections of music and everyone's (I repeat again...EVERYONE'S) is different, something after a decade of posting, you and your RD buddies still cannot grasp.

 

[firepoint525]

And that is just as KRTH, often discussed here, used to play "future gold" meaning "currents" in radio parlance.

"Not so old gold" is just a name for "recurrents" that listeners can relate to. Again, in both cases, it avoids the "oldies" term which Top 40's stations generally avoided strenuously.

Not so fast, there David. I specifically recall WHBQ in Memphis doing "oldie but goodie" weekends, so not everyone was afraid of the term. I seem to recall that they also referred to many of them as "songs you grew up with" or something like that.