Do you really belong, Golden Triangle?

[purpledevil]

Since we've had a shortage of subject material lately on the ol' Houston board, and in the general spirit of CW's "Remember When" topic, I have pondered something that I'd like to share with the brain trust that is radio-discussions.

Call it a waste of a topic, if you must, but I ask you, have you seen much else posted around here lately?

Why are our Beaumont-Port Arthur-Orange-Nederland neighbors considered a part of the Houston-Galveston radio forums? Why do we snub Victoria? Or Bryan/College Station? THOSE news worthy topics go to the Texas board, but oh no! Not the Triangle. Let's let those Beaumontians, or whatever you guys are called, (Beaumontites?) ride on the long and luxurious coattails of the 4th largest city, in the greatest country in the world. What makes you so special, Golden Triangle?

Is it big oil's fault? We both have a lot, you know.

Is it that we SE Texas dwellers, don't want others to know the Aggies and Victorians are our neighbors? (those 'dern northurners'll thank thare both nearn' Dallas)

Did you have a hand in this "ContinuousWave"? Did you one day, way back when, say the heck with it! I'm posting Beaumont news on Houston's board. Too much Lubbock around here for me! Then it just stuck?

Was stan reliving yesteryear at the old stomping grounds at KAYC and posting some awesome story about radio when it was?

You know, back when the Triangle wasn't "was" itself?

Did you guys come as part of the package that we Houstonians got in the theft..*ahem*...acquisition of KHYS, KYKR, KAYD, and KWIC?

Should we just vanquish you Triangulars back to the Texas board, where you belong?

Or worse yet, since Lake Charles is ever so slowly creeping nearer and nearer to thee, send you packing to Louisiana?

I say, git! There I said it.

(personal disclaimer: the previous commentary is purely satire, I love my oil buddies on the Houston horizon. If you found this nonsense funny, I'm glad that I made you laugh. You should probably grow up, though If not, well I tried, try reading again followIng a couple of drinks. I mean, that's what inspired the topic anyway, so why not? If your upset now, well that's just sad, and if you have no idea what any of this means, you are likely not the only one.

Cheers and 73!

 

[stan]

You are correct that some of our triangle stations were stolen from our area and sent to transmitters between Houston and the triangle in an effort to broadcast to any rabbits or crawfish in the fields. Perhaps we post because of the overlap in signals between Houston and the triangle. Maybe we post because we have formats such as KIOC and KCOL that Houston residents wish they had. Maybe I should just banish myself from the mighty Houston board altogether. It's been fun while it lasted.

As Sam Malone might say, See Ya!

 

[RadioFaninTexas]

If 93.3, 97.5, 98.5 and 107.9 were still located in the Triangle today, what formats do you think would be on these frequencies?

 

[dualux]

Having lived-in and worked radio in both Houston and Beaumont I can assure you that there has always been a connection between the two markets -- much more so than between Houston and Victoria or Bryan-College Station.

Many listeners commute between Houston and Beaumont every day whether to work or shop, most broadcast signals in the two cities overlap, a number of Houston-area stations also serve the Beaumont market, Houston stations regularly show up in the Beaumont ratings, etc.

I will continue to post Beaumont radio musings on the Houston board as I hope CW, Stan and others will too.

If you don't want to read about "Golden Triangle" radio on the Houston board, Purpledevil, feel free to skip over the posts.

And please come back, Stan!


dualux

 

[ContinuousWave]

It was NOT any of my doing....the BPT area has had a connection to Houston because of the jocks in the BPT area that ended up working on Houston stations (one of the 70s top40 jocks on KILT started on KLVI and came over for the weekend countdown to country....damn what was his name?? When he heard the edited Rex Allen Big Country Ford commercial, he wanted a copy...we dubbed it onto a cart with all the proper labeling on it....and a BIG "DO NOT PLAY ON AIR EVER!!!" and he laughed and said H&H (then S&P as the KILT team) would probably try to play it on the air...dont know if Jim and Mark ever did...but if you want to hear it, it is on a Home page on Earthlink along with the 60 sec original..... http://home.earthlink.net/~psithurism/Audio files/ and enjoy the original and then the XXX cut...(NSFW!!) in fact you can also hear the Casey Kasem when he lost it on one recording session for AT40....he DENIED it existed for 20+ yrs until some reporter got a copy from an AT40 engineer and played it for Casey at some convention.....after which Casey had to admit to it...it was a BAD day he said...and the rant has gone on to the internet and around the world!!!

Ya know the current rim shots 97.5, 103.7, 98.5, 107.9, 100.7 and 93.3 (out of which only ONE is licensed to a burb of Houston....and that is 103.7..guess you could also same the same for 97.5 but it was Lake Charles's FM!!! Swapped to Beaumont for 99.5 because the 2nd harmonic fell right in the middle of TV 11's bandpass!! tore up TVs with preamps and high antenna in BMT trying to get KGUL when it 1st signed on close to Galveston....and you can guess the rest of the story!!
Anyway, 4 of the BPT signals and one Winnie signal (which was a move in from Jasper by Roy Henderson but it covers BPT like a local!) were stolen to be Houston signals because the owners thought they could make more money....

Given the downturn of the economy in the Triangle, thats probably true...In fact, lets look at the 70s picture vs today:

1976
AM
560 top40
(could count 740 but wont)
990 country KTRM
1150 MOR KSUZ (daytime only)
1250 MOR KPAC
1300 KSET Silsbee...500w daytimer Country...of course
1340 Top40 leader KOLE
1380 soul KJET(daytime only)
1450 top40 KAYD
1510 C&W KYKR (daytime only)
1600 C&W KOGT

FM
91.3 KVLU NPR/jazz
93.3 Country KYKR-FM
94.1 Elevator music KBPO
95.1 (was it even on?)
96.1 LCH Stereo 96 with soft top40
97.5 AOR->Top40 KAYD
98.5 Elevator music that went AOR but 3KW at 500ft! KPAC FM-> KHYS in 1977 or 78
101.7 KSET's FM (cant recall the callsign at the time)...Country of course
102.5 (not sure when they signed on...may not have been on back then)
104.5 AOR KZOM (originally pop KOBS home built! and MONO)
(Nope, 106.1 did not sign on until 1977 or 78)
107.7 KWIC top40 but only 300 ft on KJETs tower

===========================================================
Ok...thats then, this is now
AM
560 talk KLVI
990 nothing when it is on the air KZZB
1150 Mexican religious (yeah thats serving Port Neches alright!!) KBPO but it got a whopping 60something watts@nite
1250 Radio Maria KDEI
1300...off the air (again) now licensed to Lumberton
1340 brokered and broke half the time...KOLE
1380...gone
1450...KIKR has been off the air for the last week....but CBS sports these days
1510...CBS Sports (and still daytime only) KBED Nederland!
1600...still country and same power as it was 40 years ago

FM
88.1
88.3
89.7
90.5 all 4 above with some translators out there; all religious
91.3 NPR/Lamar (still;;though it got a power increase with KFDM on 6 gone)
92.5 (started on 92.1) Was KTFA in the 80s..now KCOL playing Classic Hits but the RDS says OLDIES!mmmmmmm
93.3 Mexican rimshot for Houston
94.1 current hits still KQXY which it became when the Hicks sold it to WQXY out of BTR while 560 was still top40!
94.7 Groves translator for KRLR Sulphur
95.1 KZZB top40 to KYKR Country
96.1 still comes and goes but it too is country now; supposed to be going back to FOX29 stick that 96.1 originally owned!
96.5 translator moving from Vinton....carries Sulphur's non comm religious (same as 94.7 does) will block MIX96.5
96.9 KSAP-LP Port Arthur...after they had to move....less height and surely less coverage...
97.1 rimshot from Houston...Country Legends(wont even discuss the pissant xlator for 990! )
97.5 now off the 400 ft KAYC tower with 12 bay antenna; now south of Winnie on 2000ft tower...sold for $5mill to GOW
98.1 religious translator
98.5 Mexican LARAZA after urban then oldies and then JAMMIN OLDIES!!sorry CC but it was never built to be a Houston station...and Liberman, it will not cover past downtown...
98.9 another religious translator
99.5 GATOR Country from LCH (using the FOX29 tower originally built for 96.1's upgrade when it went country)
99.9 KSHN from Liberty....covers MOST of the area from the Devers tower 93.3 and 100.7 are left on even though only 500ft
100.7 Move in and now owned by Univision...regional Mexican music licensed to LUMBERTON but what "service" do they provide???
I wont include 101.3 since they have issues with their signal in a lot of areas..
101.7 Still licensed to Silsbee.....was 1300's FM...now KAYD with NASH!
102.5 Urban KTCX....always #1 in ratings....
103.3 fill in translator for KKMY...now using HD-2 of 104.5 for 247 Comedy which is going away soon
103.7 KHJK......a $40+ million dollar investment by Cumulus....sold for $5 million to EMF for Air 1
104.1 (planned translator...will block KRBE out of Houston)
104.5 KKMY, the call remains but the format changes....
104.9 Beaumont xlator for KHCB 105.7 Houston....
105.3 KXXF Free Radio.....does anyone listen to it on a regular basis....a lot of the music is not what I like...
106.1 KIOC Big Dog...went from a top40 to a more rock format.....(too bad they have Bob and Tom in the AM!!! BORING)
106.7 Vidor translator for KHCB (on same tower in PN at 94.7 translator!!) Covers PA as well
106.9 KHPT.....rimshot from Splendora...always puts a good signal in the area (simulcast with 107.5)
107.5 KGLK Lake Jackson....out of Chocolate Bay on its 2000 ft tower
107.9 KQQK Beaumont but another LBI attempt to be a Houston station....

And with the Houston Mo City sticks now at 2000ft, a lot of their signals make it to the BPT area (when tropo is not covering them up)...only wish they would have been there in the mid 70s...when KRBE and KILT-FM were great to listen to...also KAUM, 101 KLOL and others....the AMs 610 and 790 often battled it out for top40 dominance until KRBE and KAUM started to make dents...then came KULF with S&P and 97.9 KFMK going AC/top40 from religious....that was a shocker!!! THEN the Q ZOO blew into town....and 790 KULF was gone but in 2 books, KKBQ was in the top 10...for an AM at the time playing music it was a miracle...then of course came them taking over 92.5 KYND and then the MASSIVE Houston realignment....after KSBJ 1st signed on 88.1 and started causing grief to KFDM in Liberty county....SOOO 23 signals were moved around...and 92.5 moved up to 92.9, 92.1 Groves moved to 92.5 and a new 92.1 signed on in Seabrook.....with all digital processing...sounded pretty good for a 3KW Class A...now its a Class C0 iirc.....been to the current tower site once and did some contract work for them....

ALL the good ole days of radio.....hmmm maybe I need to compile a history page....Dallas has one and I was proud and honored to have worked in that market for 5 years.....wish it would have been longer but the Telcom act of 96, CC and 9/11 screwed it all up......yep, those were the days....

Hey on Insight, they lump BPT in with Houston..and this forum has always had Beaumont posts in it...if it was that bad, you would think they would open a forum for BPT.....or BPO I guess......with the cheaper electric rates and I10 now 6 lanes from Winnie to Houston, I can almost bet Anahuac and other areas east of the Trinity will start filling up (personally I'd take Dayton....up on the ridge, no flooding like S Liberty gets, and Super 90 right in to Houston........


Oh and Devil (lets see how good your memory is)...Harumph and 96!!! - - ... ... - -

 

[purpledevil]

Ah geez, stan, c'mon! Don't let my ignorance and crappy sense of humor run you out the door.

Perhaps you and dualux skipped over the disclaimer about it being said purely out of fun. Just ribbin' you guys a little. Thanks CW, you took it in stride, maybe gave a little chuckle, then went ahead and gave us the full on history of the Triangle dial. See? Something quality came out of this trash of a topic. I bet there were many (including myself) that had no idea that 97-5 and 99-5 pulled a switcheroo all because of Channel 11. That's the first thing I've learned on here in many a moon.

I know it's always been this way around here, and for that matter, in the real world as well. It's not like I just signed up for these festivities last night, and this was my initial offering of a topic.

As I posted last night, if you're upset now, that's just sad. Please, for all of our sakes, continue posting Triangle musings at will. Lord knows, we need the activity over here, and I certainly enjoy reading them.

Stan, I'm sorry. One too many Wild Turkeys on my part.

 

[stan]

No offense taken - I understood the disclaimer! While pondering this thread, I've come to the conclusion that there's not much going on in Houston radio right now, that other areas are dominating this board. No format changes, no controversy, everyone's just happy with the status quo.

Except for HD radio, that is.

 

[ContinuousWave]

Here's some more history:

Oldest FMs (on the current band, not the old 42-50MHz band) in Texas....look what station was #1 & what freq they were on:

1 Aug. 22, 1946 KTHT-FM 98.5 Houston Texas Star Broadcasting became KOPY-FM on 12/2/47; signed off in 1950
2 Oct. 5, 1946 KERA-FM 94.3 Dallas Dallas Morning News became WFAA-FM and moved to 97.9 on 9/15/47; signed off on 9/1/1950; WFAA-FM revived 1/6/1961; Currently KBFB
3 Nov. 1, 1946 KYFM 101.5 San Antonio Express Publishing became KTSA-FM in 1950; signed off in 1956
4 Dec. 23, 1946 KTRN 97.7 Wichita Falls Times Publishing Co. signed off in 1949
5 Dec. 24, 1946 KPRC-FM 99.7 Houston Houston Post moved to 102.9 in 1947; moved to 99.1 and changed call letters to KODA in 1958
6 Dec. 1946 KISS-FM 100.1 San Antonio Walmac Co. moved to 99.5 in 1947, still operates as KISS-FM
6 Dec. 1946 WOAI-FM 102.3 San Antonio Express Publishing signed off in 1950
8 Feb. 1947 KCMC-FM 92.5 Texarkana KCMC, Inc. moved to 98.1 in 1948; became KTAL-FM in 1962
8 Feb. 1947 KAMT 94.5 College Station Texas A&M College signed off in 1948
8 Feb. 1947 KGKB-FM 101.5 Tyler East Texas Broadcasting signed off in 1951
10 March 1947 KRBC-FM 96.9 Abilene Reporter Broadcasting signed off in 1950
11 April 1947 KGBS-FM 95.3 Harlingen Harbenito Radio Corp. signed off in 1950; Revived in 1960 at 94.5 as KELT, currently KFRQ
12 June 8, 1947 KIXL-FM 104.5 Dallas Variety Broadcasting became KEZT in 1972, became KKDA-FM in 1975
13 June 30, 1947 KTRH-FM 101.1 Houston KTRH Broadcasting became KLOL in 1970
14 Nov. 1947 KGNC-FM 104.3 Amarillo Plains Radio Corp. signed off in 1950; revived on 12/24/1958 on 93.1, moved to 97.9
15 Dec. 1947 KURV 104.9 Edinburg James Cullen Looney signed off in 1952
16 Jan. 31, 1948 KXYZ-FM 96.5 Houston Harris County Broadcasting signed off in 1953; revived in 1960, currently KHMX
16 Jan. 1948 KRBA-FM 95.5 Lufkin Darrell F. Yates signed off in 1953; revived on 12/19/1959 as KSPL-FM (licensed to Diboll); currently KAFX
16 Jan. 1948 KVWC-FM 98.7 Vernon Northwestern Broadcasting signed off in 1950
19 Feb. 1948 KRIC-FM 99.5 Beaumont KRIC, Inc. moved to 97.5 in 1958; became KAYD in 1963

and the person behind the original KTHT-FM??? A name well known for other Houston history...and more!! (Enjoy the reading)

http://houstonradiohistory.blogspot.com/2008/01/first-fm-in-houston-and-texas.html

QRZ???

 

[rbrucecarter5]

I don't get what happened to KRBE's signal. I remember in the late 70's and early 80's you could hear them all over Austin almost like a local. Beaumont / Port Arthur - they WERE local. You didn't lose them until after Lafayette when a station from Houma took over 104.1. They were a MONSTER. To the North, they were all over DFW. And Beamont's 106.1? They were very strong in Austin with an antenna.

 

[stan]

Having lived in the Triangle for a lot longer than my 2 year promised assignment (36 years now), I can safely say that I used to be able to listen to many Houston stations as if they were local. On FM, I spent many morning driving to work listening to 92.9, 96.5, 97.9, 100.3, 101.1, 104.1, and 107.5. As the stations moved to digital, I suppose this decreased their distance because today those stations are not nearly as easy to pick up in the Triangle as 20 years ago.

 

[RadioFaninTexas]

In the 80's I lived just west of Lake Charles and traveled to Houston often. Traveling east on I-10 from Houston, I would always lose most of the Houston FM's between Walden Rd and Washington Blvd just outside Beaumont.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

In the 80's I lived just west of Lake Charles and traveled to Houston often. Traveling east on I-10 from Houston, I would always lose most of the Houston FM's between Walden Rd and Washington Blvd just outside Beaumont.

A lot of this depends on the radio and the antenna. For the better part of 40 years, I've used Pioneer Supertuners exclusively because I travel extensively on remote roads and nothing else even comes close to bringing in stations. So my experience holding Houston stations all the way past Lafayette may not be typical. I also use a full 60 inch whip. Contrary to conventional wisdom - a 31 inch whip is NOT optimum for FM. The longer the better. If I could get 5/8 wavelength on the car, I would. As it is, I bottom load it which helps immensely on AM and doesn't affect FM that much.

 

[fadedglory+]

From what I've gathered it seems also that in the 70's and 80's there were differences in sound quality between the Houston and BPT stations as well; some listeners were able to discern the differences between stations in these markets whenever the signals were skipping in nice and strong; Houston stations then seemed louder because of the compression of the sound; one exception was KGRA Nova 104, where you had to turn up the volume at times to hear the music; I'd say KRBE was the loudest of all of them........this goes for the AM stations as well, a different "sound" for both markets..........

 

[rbrucecarter5]

From what I've gathered it seems also that in the 70's and 80's there were differences in sound quality between the Houston and BPT stations as well; some listeners were able to discern the differences between stations in these markets whenever the signals were skipping in nice and strong; Houston stations then seemed louder because of the compression of the sound; one exception was KGRA Nova 104, where you had to turn up the volume at times to hear the music; I'd say KRBE was the loudest of all of them........this goes for the AM stations as well, a different "sound" for both markets..........

Somebody once told me that the "KRBE sound" was a very slight, almost imperceptible speeding up of the song, a very slight pre-emphasis at 7 kHz, and a very slight reverb generated by a microphone at the end of 50 feet of garden hose. I have never heard that independently verified, though.

 

[ContinuousWave]

From what I've gathered it seems also that in the 70's and 80's there were differences in sound quality between the Houston and BPT stations as well; some listeners were able to discern the differences between stations in these markets whenever the signals were skipping in nice and strong; Houston stations then seemed louder because of the compression of the sound; one exception was KGRA Nova 104, where you had to turn up the volume at times to hear the music; I'd say KRBE was the loudest of all of them........this goes for the AM stations as well, a different "sound" for both markets..........

Nova, which was on 103.7 in Lake Charles (now Bayou 103.3) and 104.5 KOBS both sucked audio wise (especially since KOBS was mono and all home built by the owner Charlie Kobs!)

As to AM top40, KILT was the standard in audio quality in Houston...and for a while, we at KLVI was beating them....At LVI in 77/78, we had at the xmtr a LA-4, a 5band EQ and then a BL-40 Modulimiter...The poor mod meter was pegged almost all the time..One Saturday I was on 610 headed south from I10 (visiting a radio shop on the south side of Houston then) and listening to the radio in the Celica.....I THOUGHT I was on 610.....nope, along came the TOH ID and it was KLVI....I punched over the 610 and sure enough, KLVI was louder! I was even shocked!! (was surprised the CCA could do that ....KOLE in Port Arthur was a great AM audio wise as well...for a Class C, its audio would push it further than most (and it had a great sound system too thanks to Chief Engineer Roland Ritcher...who also did news and was part time DJ under the name "Jet Crash"!) KAYC should have done better with its 5/8wl tower, but the ground conductivity was not as good as where KOLE is located..its still that way with both stations at 1KW at night...in fact, in Port Arthur/Groves area, 1450 is usually dominated by the Crowley 1450 at night instead of Beaumont's now KIKR (which has been off the air for over a week...havent checked it in the last couple of days)...

The audio from KRBE was actually better than most...they had some fantastic dynamic range and excellent audio in the 70s Top40 days. In fact growing up in Groves, I used to listen to KRBE and Kenny Miles in the morning..when conditions allowed (this was before the move to Senior Road); later, I was a S&P listener on KULF and then QZOO when Lander and company took over.....however, the move of other top40 stations to FM or those flipping to top40 from another format brought on the loudness wars and maximum smash of the audio and dynamic range went out the door....As one who had a "rare" AM stereo radio, listening to KKBQ in simulcast, I would often be on the AM side...it had a full, richer sound to me...maybe due to the processing but the AM stereo signal was my choice...

AHHHH the good days of radio and real top40

 

[ContinuousWave]

Somebody once told me that the "KRBE sound" was a very slight, almost imperceptible speeding up of the song, a very slight pre-emphasis at 7 kHz, and a very slight reverb generated by a microphone at the end of 50 feet of garden hose. I have never heard that independently verified, though.

Most Top40 stations would run their 45s at 47 or so to get a better tempo......any faster and it sounded too mickey mouse..
A 5 band EQ could enhance the audio easily....this was before multiband compressors like the Orban 8100 with the XT Chassis...the original 8000 was a single band compressor....so additional processing like a CBS Volumax or Audimax was used to help....plus external EQs had to be used.. Never heard the story of the reverb (though top40 stations used reverb a lot in the 60s and 70s...We didnt have one at KLVI but KAYC had one in the entire audio chain; which is not where it should be! mics only!......it was in the control room and sometimes got bumped or whatever and the audio went all to hell (but the engineer at the time, Dan Chamberlin, was more interested in his college classes than taking care of the station most of the time...his 'engineering' was merely paying for his way to med school!)