Proof that hearing Hotel California repeatedly will drive you crazy

[davideduardo]

I don't see it and who cares besides the Corporate Apologists and Rationalists

What you call "apologists and rationalists" are simply "realists".

A "realist" has seen the effects and results of doing the things you and your camp followers suggest or want, and understand that they do not work, particularly in competitive situations.

Nobody needs to apologize for playing an optimized playlist based on listener input. That such a list does not match your wants or expectations is strictly your personal problem.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

Gotta say David, your comments on these type of threads are as predictable as: The Southern California Weather, The KLOS playlist, and The KRTH playlist.

To me these rather small playlists are a sad testament to the music industry and the radio broadcast industry.
I do agree with you on the future re. the platforms that will become commonplace among the listening population.

 

[davideduardo]

Gotta say David, your comments on these type of threads are as predictable as: The Southern California Weather, The KLOS playlist, and The KRTH playlist.

To me these rather small playlists are a sad testament to the music industry and the radio broadcast industry.
I do agree with you on the future re. the platforms that will become commonplace among the listening population.

Playlists adjusted to what listener consensus dictates date back to Todd Storz, Bill Stewart and Gordon McLendon.

Top 40 stormed across the nation and then the world because a huge percentage of listeners wanted to hear only the biggest songs, and none others. That wave began in 1952. Stories abound about Top 40 / CHR stations shortening their lists and beating a competitor. There are few stories about stations increasing the playlist and winning.

The progressive rock era came, for the most part, to a crashing end when Lee Abrams rolled out Superstars... a formatted, tightly controlled playlist with controlled but relatable talents doing the presenting. That was in the early to mid 70's.

Even the wildly successful Beautiful Music stations of the 70's had very tight music lists dictated by familiarity and feel. The old-line "good music" stations with immense libraries quickly died or adapted.

Playlist size is determined by the listeners, as a group, in each format. If a classic hits station has 400 songs on its list, that's because there are no other big consensus songs. Nobody at a station really cares how many songs pass a test... they just care about presenting the ones that do pass.

 

[TheBigA]

To me these rather small playlists are a sad testament to the music industry and the radio broadcast industry.

Neither industry cares about playlist size. The real culprit is listener attention span, which is getting smaller thanks to being bombarded by so much content.

The music industry churns out thousands of new songs a year, and only a few catch on with the public. The radio folks recognize this and hone in on the few that grab audience attention. It's giving the people what they want, which is a curated music list that delivers only the hits of a particular genre. You may have a larger attention span, but it doesn't mean you're willing to venture outside your genre. If you were, you'd easily be able to quadruple your personal playlist. Just tune in a different station, and you'll hear lots of new songs you've never heard before. It might open you up to a new genre of music, and some new friends.

 

[Thomps2525]

BigA, will you be upset if I point out that you should have said "home in" and not "hone in"? Unless, of course, you're sharpening a knife. Believe it or not, not everyone appreciates me correcting their grammar. You know, I loved KRTH in the 1970s and early '80s. They originally focused on hits of 1954 through 1963 and there were a lot of low-charting songs and not the mind-numbing repetition that made KRTH unlistenable in the 1990s (thanks to Jay Coffey) and again in the 2010s (thanks to Rick Thomas and Chris Ebbott). When Jhani Kaye was in charge, the playlist expanded and I once again listened to KRTH quite a bit. This year, after I started hearing more repetition than ever, I pretty much quit listening. Today, as I said, I turned KRTH on for six minutes and turned it off as soon as I heard Hotel California start. Come on, Chris, give that song a rest for a few weeks!

As David noted, the tight playlists of top-40 stations originated with the programmers who observed large numbers of people putting nickels in a juke box and all playing the same few songs. (What nobody ever mentions, though, is that maybe the other songs weren't getting played because nobody had yet heard them on the radio.) As far as classic-hits stations go, there are very few of today's "consensus songs" that I really want to hear. The reason? I've already heard each one of them a thousand times! Hearing each one another thousand times doesn't interest me. Listening to a station that doesn't play anything today that wasn't also played yesterday? And each of several hundred previous days? Nope, sorry.

"Tune in a different station and you'll hear lots of new songs." BigA's advice makes sense. Now...who the heck are Luis Fonsi, Romeo Santos, Ricardo Arjona and Calibre 50?

 

[oldies76]

I loved KRTH in the 1970s and early '80s. They originally focused on hits of 1954 through 1963 and there were a lot of low-charting songs and not the mind-numbing repetition that made KRTH unlistenable in the 1990s (thanks to Jay Coffey) and again in the 2010s (thanks to Rick Thomas and Chris Ebbott). When Jhani Kaye was in charge, the playlist expanded and I once again listened to KRTH quite a bit.

Personally, the best years for K-Earth were in the late 70's to about 1987, when they featured countless specials, themes and an endless playlist. Also they had great DJ's back then. Brian Beirne's famous line when playing a song from 1955. "Gonna go back to top shelf and dust this record off for you, a great tune from the 1950's" And frankly, it seemed he could play whatever he felt like, during his midday shift.

Today, it's just run-of-the-mill. Blah!

 

[oldies76]

Gotta say David, your comments on these type of threads are as predictable as: The Southern California Weather.

Yeah, according to Dallas Raines: Night and morning low clouds giving way to hazy sunshine. About as boring as it gets. Hopefully Hurricane Norbert will change the tempo.

As for KRTH, it's the same 400 songs, giving way to sporadic listening. Again, about as boring as it gets. Hopefully Mr. Ebbotts will change the tune.

 

[TheBigA]

BigA, will you be upset if I point out that you should have said "home in" and not "hone in"?

Not content to nit pick about one song that a top rated classic hits radio station plays, you now turn your attention to me.

Look...times change. If you still live in LA, you know what I'm talking about. When was the last time you bought an album at Tower Records on Sunset? That closing was the turning of the page. Granted, there are a lot of people who still have fond memories from that time, who saw The Doors at the Whiskey, and loved listening to KHJ in the Boss Jock era. I love reading the history of it, listening to the air checks, and discussing it with others in my free time. But that's not my job, and not what I put on the radio. I don't need to keep hearing about the "glory days" about how great things used to be. Believe me, I've already heard it from grandpa, great grandpa, and my dad. They all have lectured on about all the wonderful things that used to be. Too bad I missed it.

Radio will not make you happy any more because you've seen it all, heard it all, and have a bureau full of t-shirts to prove it. You are beyond the point where listening to free OTA radio means anything any more. You probably don't support any of the sponsors either. You already own all the songs you want us to play. As you said, you've probably heard them all so many times they all have cue burn. You can play every note in the piano solo from "The Wind" by Circus Maximus. So picking on one song that happens to be the most popular doesn't matter. If they stopped playing Hotel California, you've find something else to complain about.

But PLEASE understand there are millions of other people who enjoy listening to KRTH, even if you don't. You'll never understand why. But they do.

 

[oldies76]

But PLEASE understand there are millions of other people who enjoy listening to KRTH, even if you don't.

With all due respect, they listen because they have NO other choice but to listen. What are the alternatives? KOLA? KFXM out in the desert, or KOCP up north? They listen, because that's all L.A. has to offer. Millions may listen, but many don't necessarily enjoy it. To some, KRTH is just satisfactory, to some, it's great and finally to some, it's just bad.

People want their own favorites, not corporate's consensus. That's the impression some get.

 

[Art Landing]

If the comments of David and others are predictable its because they have the experience and data that prove them right. It doesn't mean they personally like it - so, as I've said before, don't shoot the messenger because of the message. Most people today listen to the radio for music and music comes through best on FM. Most advertisers want a certain demographic and the members of that demographic have proven an affinity for certain music styles. Most broadcasters today need revenue to help pay down their debt so they cater to the audience that draws the largest dollar volume of advertisers.

Do I like it? No. I preferred the era of Earle C Anthony and Gene Autry, whose stations made a profit but also reflected their individuality and tastes in terms of what they thought the audience should be given. Anthony's sales staff was prohibited from even using the Hooper ratings in talking with potential advertisers. He considered advertising on his station to be a privilege,not part of a campaign. But those days are gone.

David and others are living in the cross-platform era of the 21st century. Like it or not, we need to accept it - not pine for the way it used to be. Sorry, but that's the truth.

 

[TheBigA]

With all due respect, they listen because they have NO other choice but to listen. What are the alternatives?

With all due respect, they have Sirius, Pandora, Spotify, iTunes, and every other digital source known to man. And the KRTH demos have the money to pay for their radio. And they choose KRTH because it's the only place they can get their favorites PLUS the presentation they love. You don't like it, but you don't live in LA any more. So you don't factor into their audience. Don't like it? Don't listen. They won't notice.

As I've said before, over on the Sirius board, there are people just like you who complain about the "small Sirius playlist." People like you just complain. There will NEVER be enough songs in a playlist to satisfy you. So we don't try.

 

[oldies76]

There will NEVER be enough songs in a playlist to satisfy you. So we don't try.

It's not the quantity, it's the quality. Play the core songs and mix them with the lesser played songs and voila, you've got a playlist. There can be 378 songs or 2378, as long as the playlist is fresh and varied, I won't have any complaints. If it's stale and played over and over til the end of time, then yes.

If you heard WOGL over Labor Day, then you'd understand. If you heard KRTH 80's weekend, then not. Take a pick.

 

[TheBigA]

It's not the quantity, it's the quality. Play the core songs and mix them with the lesser played songs and voila, you've got a playlist.

The lesser played songs are what we call FILLER. That works when you're making meatballs, not when you're programming radio.

No filler, just the meat.

Once again, you don't live in LA. You're not in their audience. No one cares if you complain. You also don't live in Philly. Don't lecture me about Philly.

 

[oldies76]

Once again, you don't live in LA. You're not in their audience. No one cares if you complain. You also don't live in Philly. Don't lecture me about Philly.

Not lecturing anyone.
Online audience. So, you still have not answered my question. WOGL's #1 Labor Day Weekend or KRTH's repetitive 80's weekend?

 

[TheBigA]

Online audience.

As we've pointed out, the online audience (especially out of market) doesn't count in the ratings. So you are not in their audience.

So, you still have not answered my question. WOGL's #1 Labor Day Weekend or KRTH's repetitive 80's weekend?

As I've said many times, I've programmed radio stations in both markets, and I recognize the advantage of each for their local audience. You don't live in either place, so you are not counted.

 

[davideduardo]

It's not the quantity, it's the quality. Play the core songs and mix them with the lesser played songs and voila, you've got a playlist. There can be 378 songs or 2378, as long as the playlist is fresh and varied, I won't have any complaints.

We (meaning the folks who have actually worked at a radio station) have stated, over and over, that adding non-core, low scoring songs just to up the library count has absolutely disastrous results.

Music research will define how many songs have consensus appeal, and that is what you can play in any format. If you add flavor songs or what you call "oh wow" songs you lose audience dramatically.

I gave you an example of a classic rock station I programmed a few years ago where we had about 450 active titles. We were #1 in a very crowded market with a population of just under 17 million. As is often the case, top rated stations attract competition from low rated ones that need a new format. We got a competitor who decided to play about four times as many songs as we had... promoting "more variety" and "more songs than Mega plays...".

We had a 22 share when the new competitor began direct in-format competition. They spent on TV, and on bus cards and other outdoor. They had good jocks and a light commercial load. By the 9th book, they had risen to a 1.8 and we still had a 22 share.

I believe that the lesson is obvious. But I could tell you dozens of other similar anecdotes, all of which indicate how you can not create variety by adding songs to the playlist as the audience does not equate variety with quantity but with quality.

 

[oldies76]

I do check the playlists on the KRTH website and I know that Hotel California is played has replaced Brown Eyed Girl as KRTH's most over-played burned-out song. Hotel California is also the song that many of us complain about the most. It is the shining example of the station's mind-numbing repetition.

This morning at 9:50, I turned on the radio. *Click* I heard Another One Bites The Dust. Okay. Then I heard Little Red Corvette. Okay. Then I heard the first few notes of Hotel California.

*Click*

According to the playlist log at KRTH, "Hotel California" (or any Eagles song) has not aired since 8/29. But you heard it after "Little Red Corvette" yesterday morning. I've checked the log, but no "Hotel...." is listed on the playlist log.

I wonder if KRTH is intentionally keeping it off their log?

There is a mysterious six minute gap between "Corvette" (9:53am) and "Night Moves" (10:02am), for 9/6, unless it's a stop set.

Yes.com is down, so there are no other logs to check.

 

[TheBigA]

I wonder if KRTH is intentionally keeping it off their log?

This is starting to border on obsession.

 

[gr8oldies]

The last thing KRTH gives a crap about is a message board poster who doesn't live in the market who wants them to cater exclusively to him.

 

[davideduardo]

Yes.com is down, so there are no other logs to check.

If you were actually in radio, you'd be checking BDS or MediaBase.

Neither is "down" nor disturbed by a conspiracy theory, so your statement that "there are no other logs..." is wrong.