"Disney's Devastating Signal"

[boombox4]

It's dead whether anyone thinks so or not, and it's not coming back. That's the bottom line. No future generation will come back to AM radio. Nothing is going to save it. It's over. I would explain this all again, but people who don't want to live in reality will find every way to avoid doing so.

If you're referring to my post, you misread what I said.

AM is not dead -- but is dying (like Avid mentioned) -- just like FM is already slowly dying. And when AM and FM go, like you have said, neither of them will be coming back.

Young people do not listen to AM, but they also do not listen to FM radio as much as the previous generations did. Many young people not use FM as a vehicle for listening to music, or discovering new music. They stream music from services like Pandora. Some of them may discover FM using a car radio. But there have been news articles showing that young people don't crave car ownership like previous generations did.

Also, a lot of what we are discussing here centers on where people live. I've read in many threads here on RD about how internet streaming won't replace OTA radio because it'll take years for the entire country to be covered with dependable cell service.

The problem is that they don't need to cover the country to effectively 'replace' OTA radio with internet streaming. They just need to cover the urban regions where 80-90 of Americans already live. And the urban regions are where most of the money is. If I'm wrong here, maybe someone can correct me. But the big markets -- and cities, where there is better cell coverage -- those areas are where most of the radio advertising revenue is.

The rural areas may still depend on FM for a while. And maybe some AM stations will survive. Like others have said, there are some AM stations still making money. And some AM stations are still surviving in parts of Europe. They even have longwave stations in Iceland and northern Norway because the DAB and FM stations don't reach the fishermen.

AM and FM will probably last longer in rural regions. But in urban areas, where most Americans live, radio will die out sooner.

I grew up with OTA radio and still love to listen to the AM band at night. I still listen to FM from time to time. But the technology that replaced AM music radio with FM is slowly replacing over the air radio with internet streams. I use TuneIn on occasions, mainly to hear overseas radio stations, and local radio in other parts of the US. The sound is excellent on my tablet through headphones. Very clean. So I see the appeal. And I can get TuneIn anywhere I can get a wi-fi connection.

 

[TheBigA]

The rural areas may still depend on FM for a while. And maybe some AM stations will survive.

When I'm out in the boonies, everyone has a satellite dish. I imagine radio is mostly via Sirius out there too.

 

[gr8oldies]

You're still making the assumption that there will be such a thing as unlimited high speed data and it all will be free....and that local and other radio stations will have an unlimited number of streams available. A lot of folks still have prepaid plans with very throttled data. We really don't want all the broadcast towers to come down and be totally dependent on internet providers and cellphone carriers for what we can hear. The premise that "everyone has stopped listening to OTA and only listens to personalized streams of obscure indie bands" doesn't mesh with reality. I get that the bitter ex-radio employees on boards like this want to see the industry fail and would like to dance on the remains of the last toppled AM or FM tower. It's not happening in any of our lifetimes.

 

[MarioMania]

What proof you have AM is dying?

I still listen to Talk, Sports & Classic Hits on AM

 

[Grounded Grid]

There should be a limit on how long dark AMs can stay dark. A station should get two years on the silent list, after that delete the license, no exceptions. Permanently freeze the AM band to new applicants. I'd say issue tax credits to AM licensees who voluntarily surrender their licenses, not to exceed $250,000, but then the value of jerkwater true-daytime-only stations would just go up. An AM with an FM translator should go off the air at night. If the value of the AM's nightime audience is so great on its own, then it doesn't need an FM translator.

I won't agree with your view that AM-on-FM stations should go off at night. If you haven't owned a radio station, you can only speculate about the true costs of running one which, in my view, disqualifies you from taking the positions you do. Setting an arbitrary $250,000 tax credit grossly undervalues a station, where the property value alone might exceed that amount, much less the studio and transmitter infrastructure.

As for the limit on how long a station can stay dark, that rule already exists, and it is one year, not two. It applies to all broadcast facilities... AM, FM, TV and translators. A station can easily get a 6-month permit to be dark, and can extend that for another 6 months. By law, a station can not stay dark more than one year. If it does so, the only reason I can think of that it would get away with it would be that the FCC didn't know it was dark in the first place.

 

[TheBigA]

Setting an arbitrary $250,000 tax credit grossly undervalues a station, where the property value alone might exceed that amount, much less the studio and transmitter infrastructure.

I think the figure was just for the license, not the property. Regardless, it hasn't been proposed to Congress, and they'd have to sign off on any tax credits.

 

[boombox4]

You're still making the assumption that there will be such a thing as unlimited high speed data and it all will be free....and that local and other radio stations will have an unlimited number of streams available. A lot of folks still have prepaid plans with very throttled data. We really don't want all the broadcast towers to come down and be totally dependent on internet providers and cellphone carriers for what we can hear. The premise that "everyone has stopped listening to OTA and only listens to personalized streams of obscure indie bands" doesn't mesh with reality. I get that the bitter ex-radio employees on boards like this want to see the industry fail and would like to dance on the remains of the last toppled AM or FM tower. It's not happening in any of our lifetimes.

I'm sure that once everything goes online, in time it all will be by subscription one way or another. And some will grumble about the price, but they'll pay it anyway, just like do for their cable TV.

People grumble about cable bills, but they're not leaving cable in droves, even where OTA TV is available.

I'm not saying I like OTA radio going away. I hate the idea of it going away, especially the AM band. And when I read about the FM band disappearing in some countries, it gives me an uneasy feeling.

It just seems to be that the internet is where everything's headed. Ain't nothing I can do about it.

 

[TheBigA]

It just seems to be that the internet is where everything's headed. Ain't nothing I can do about it.

The people who COULD do something about it are in the government, but they're in bed with the telecom companies. So the gov't isn't going to help AM radio, when its death will help Verizon or Comcast.

 

[JoshTheRadioDude]

I was replying to several people at once, just for clarification. It was more of a general statement about what I was reading.

There are those who still listen to AM, sure, but that doesn't make it any less dead. By "dead," I mean that there's no saving it. No technical mandates by the FCC, no new content, no marketing campaign, nothing will keep it from going extinct. It's done for. FM has life left to it because it DOES carry content that people still crave and in clearly receivable audio. But yes, as you say, boombox4, it's getting replaced by digital, as well. However, I see a bit of a revitalization possible with FM, one last gasp as AM had with talk radio. FM's last great era will include talk, but I see more of it being entertainment than political or sports. That's the one thing the aural medium still has in its favor: it can deliver information and entertainment together in an easily-consumed package that doesn't rely on the eye to make a point. The comedy stations we've seen popping up as of late are a bit ahead of their time if I'm right. Or perhaps they're the beginning of the trend. I could easily imagine specialty networks, much like Sirius/XM specialty channels, taking over FM through the major ownership groups. Not that I like the idea of national radio networks with no localism, but what localism is there in radio today to begin with? (Answer: none.) Once that phase passes, though... FM goes away, too. It's a long way off, but by then, this lack of bandwidth the shortsighted naysayers cling to as an excuse will long be in the past.

 

[gr8oldies]

Well Josh, let's take the market where I live. Local morning and afternoon drive show, local news all day. Local news on their Country station. It's even owned by one of the eeee-vil corporations. Local jocks on several other stations. A local ownership with one FM and 2 AMs covering small towns. That's hardly "there is absolutely no local programming".

 

[JoshTheRadioDude]

Local news from an actual news department or rip-n-read copy e-mailed over from the local TV partner? LIVE local jocks or voicetracked? And how much of that banter in-between songs has to do with local people, local current events and local issues? How much listener interaction is going on live on the air throughout the day?

If the norm in Knoxville is all live and local, completely relevant to the listeners, then that's one giant exception to the rule. The rest of the country doesn't have it so good.

 

[davideduardo]

Well Josh, let's take the market where I live. Local morning and afternoon drive show, local news all day. Local news on their Country station. It's even owned by one of the eeee-vil corporations. Local jocks on several other stations. A local ownership with one FM and 2 AMs covering small towns. That's hardly "there is absolutely no local programming".

Your local country station, WIVK, has the national record for consecutive double-digit ratings wins in any top 100 market. It can afford to do news and be live and local. Most stations, after the recession and in the new media world, can't.

 

[TheBigA]

Not that I like the idea of national radio networks with no localism, but what localism is there in radio today to begin with? (Answer: none.)

In your town, Miami, there's quite a bit. Maybe not in your favorite format. But if you venture outside your comfort zone, you'll find lots of live & local air talent, engaging with local listeners, holding listener get-togethers and happy hours, and the occasional chili festival. Yes, in Miami!

 

[davideduardo]

In your town, Miami, there's quite a bit. Maybe not in your favorite format. But if you venture outside your comfort zone, you'll find lots of live & local air talent, engaging with local listeners, holding listener get-togethers and happy hours, and the occasional chili festival. Yes, in Miami!

The market is over 50% Hispanic, and all the signficant Spanish language stations there are live and local.

Many stations like Power 96, WQHT, WEDR and such are also mostly live and definitely local.

 

[JoshTheRadioDude]

Well, for starters, I don't live in Miami anymore (though that doesn't prevent me from listening or watching the local media). However, there are some stations that still do live and local, yes, but what local content is there? There's more to localism than simply putting a warm body behind the microphone. I haven't heard localism outside a morning show in Miami in at least a decade. And even inside morning shows. None of those stations go to the lengths they once did to be relevant and involved in the community. There are exceptions, but they're not common.

 

[TheBigA]

However, there are some stations that still do live and local, yes, but what local content is there? There's more to localism than simply putting a warm body behind the microphone.

What do you consider "local content?" Live broadcasts of city council and school board meetings? If that's what you mean, no, there's no local content. If you mean DJs talking up local concerts and events, interacting with listeners via phone, text, and Twitter, then yes. As for community involvement, that has changed. Stations are less involved in the community as a whole, and more involved with the specific targeted listener base. That's especially useful in a multi-cultural city like Miami.

 

[gr8oldies]

WIVK is one of Cumulus's "Nash" stations though not branded that way. It shares the news dept. with it's sister news/talk station and sports station. THe poster claimed that there was no local broadcasting anywhere.

Your local country station, WIVK, has the national record for consecutive double-digit ratings wins in any top 100 market. It can afford to do news and be live and local. Most stations, after the recession and in the new media world, can't.

 

[gr8oldies]

The news department is a dedicated news department with actual experienced newspeople. No, everything in Knoxville is not live and local, but more is live (or locally voicetracked) than some markets its size. Do hosts talk about national issues and personalities? Of course they do. You really think listeners want non-stop talk about potholes?

Local news from an actual news department or rip-n-read copy e-mailed over from the local TV partner? LIVE local jocks or voicetracked? And how much of that banter in-between songs has to do with local people, local current events and local issues? How much listener interaction is going on live on the air throughout the day?

If the norm in Knoxville is all live and local, completely relevant to the listeners, then that's one giant exception to the rule. The rest of the country doesn't have it so good.

 

[gr8oldies]

You can interest me in last night's school board meeting for approximately 15 seconds. OK, thanks for telling me about the pothole, what's on Facebook?

What do you consider "local content?" Live broadcasts of city council and school board meetings? If that's what you mean, no, there's no local content. If you mean DJs talking up local concerts and events, interacting with listeners via phone, text, and Twitter, then yes. As for community involvement, that has changed. Stations are less involved in the community as a whole, and more involved with the specific targeted listener base. That's especially useful in a multi-cultural city like Miami.