Radio is Dead (and not just AM)

[landtuna]

AM and FM are declining. New media radio is surging. The issue is more about which companies and stations will transition well into new media versions; "radio" is not dying... just its oldest distribution channel is.

Hear we go again with the definitions.

When someone says "radio" to me I envision a physical property containing an RF transmitter, STA, antenna, studio, personnel and media. The medium is RF, not landline and not Internet. Somebody in his basement "netcasting" on the Internet is not radio even though the programming mimics that of radio.

If I am listening to WCBS on a radio frequency receiver I am listening to radio. If I am listening via a receiver card in my PC I am listening to radio. If I am listening to a WCBS stream over the Internet I am listening to a radio program but I am not listening to radio even though the program is originating in a radio station. Just as there are specific and numerous distinctions between TV and radio, even though both operate via RF, there are those same distinctions between radio and streamed programming via the Internet (or recorded media or juice cans etc.).

The terms "webcasting" and "netcasting" were invented to describe programming delivered via the Internet.

BTW, my original post was titled to illustrate the lack of radio in a certain geographic area and not to describe a dying industry.

 

[umfan]

Then perhaps an appropriate title for the thread would have been 'Radio is Dead on I-10 heading WB between Arizona exit xx and California Exit xx'

You projected your experience as exemplfying the state of the industry. I doubt that anyone on these forums is ignorant of the fact that the broadcast radio industry is, at best, stagnant, but more likely in a state of decline. This hardly means the industry is dead, yet that's what you titled this thread. It provoked a lot of dicussion, not at all a bad thing, but own what you wrote.

 

[davideduardo]

When someone says "radio" to me I envision a physical property containing an RF transmitter, STA, antenna, studio, personnel and media. The medium is RF, not landline and not Internet. Somebody in his basement "netcasting" on the Internet is not radio even though the programming mimics that of radio.

That "somebody" in the basement is Pandora, with it's cohorts like Slacker and Uforia and iTunes Radio. If you talk to listeners, these and all other purveyors of audio streams are "radio". Since the business is driven by consumer opinion and reaction, then "radio" is streamed audio without pictures delivered by any method, whether it be AM, FM, satellite or Internet.

People with horse carriages probably thought that motor cars were not "transportation".

 

[landtuna]

Then perhaps an appropriate title for the thread would have been 'Radio is Dead on I-10 heading WB between Arizona exit xx and California Exit xx'

Cannot argue with your logic. Will remember that next time I create a thread.

 

[landtuna]

That "somebody" in the basement is Pandora, with it's cohorts like Slacker and Uforia and iTunes Radio. If you talk to listeners, these and all other purveyors of audio streams are "radio". Since the business is driven by consumer opinion and reaction, then "radio" is streamed audio without pictures delivered by any method, whether it be AM, FM, satellite or Internet.

The fact that some people have gotten very lazy in their use of the English language does not make it a new definition.

I was just chastised for a misleading title on another thread and I agree I did so. So when someone says to me "I'm listening to the radio" when they really mean "I'm listening to music over the Internet" I will correct them. And you.

 

[Ravens]

The fact that some people have gotten very lazy in their use of the English language does not make it a new definition.

I was just chastised for a misleading title on another thread and I agree I did so. So when someone says to me "I'm listening to the radio" when they really mean "I'm listening to music over the Internet" I will correct them. And you.

I like the cut of your jib.

 

[davideduardo]

The fact that some people have gotten very lazy in their use of the English language does not make it a new definition.

Words are redefined all the time. That's why printed dictionaries had new editions with considerable frequency and online dictionaries are constantly updated. Not only are new words added, but many "old" words are redefined or given additional or broader meanings.

Today, "radio" means any real-time audio source that does not have pictures. Radio may be distributed by AM, FM, satellite, cellular radio or wired Internet hookups.

I am reminded of the term "rediffusion" which means the "rebroadcasting of radio programs by wire" and was a term often used in England and it's Crown Colonies from the late 20's into, at least, the 50's. In part, it allowed private broadcasters to send programs to homes "on the wire" without disturbing the government monopoly on AM radio channels. It was defined in the dictionaries of the time, such as period editions of the venerable Oxford Dictionary of the English Language, to be "radio".

The British distinguished the kinds of radio by calling the on-air version "wireless".

So when someone says to me "I'm listening to the radio" when they really mean "I'm listening to music over the Internet" I will correct them. And you.

When satellite is called "Sirius / XM Satellite Radio" and iHeart's streaming is called iHeart Radio and Apple's equivalent is called "iTunes Radio" there is no logic in bucking a trend.

Essentially nobody is buying stand alone AM/FM radios. You can't find any in most stores that used to have dozens of models and styles, and when you do find them, they are generally part of some device like a smartphone charger / alarm. Radios come as part of cars, only because of tradition and consumer expectations. Consumers themselves want to listen to music and "radio" on their portable device, which is generally a smartphone... and when listening to any kind of real time audio, they mostly think of it as "radio" irrespective of the transmission system.

Continuing to think of radio as only AM and FM will destroy broadcasting entirely as the consumer has expanded their definition along with their expectations.

 

[Ravens]

Funny you mention the Oxford dictionary. That's usually considered the "official" language. When they lump the Internet in with radio, you can use radio to mean the Internet.

Until then, it's not radio. I generally agree with you, but you're dead wrong here. The only people who use "radio" for the Internet are people playing radio online and consultants trying to get real radio stations to diversify into the internet (which is a very good idea, by the way).

Podcast One has their hosts use the term "on demand audio". I think that's perfect.

 

[FredLeonard]

People with horse carriages probably thought that motor cars were not "transportation".

Some did. Many did not. Possibly you've heard of the Durant-Dort Carriage Company. No, maybe you know them as General Motors.

There's a reason why the auto industry took root in Michigan. That's where the carriage and wagon makers were.

Radio broadcasters could take a lesson from those old carriage makers.

 

[semoochie]

Why were the carriage and wagon makers based in Michigan?

 

[frankberry]

Michigan gave them access to a plentiful supply of wood and easy shipping through the Great Lakes to the major east coast markets.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

I have a different theory, a different opinion on why Michigan became the center of the American auto industry.

I think there were wagon makers in a lot of areas.... there was more wood in some areas of the country than in Michigan. And we need to do a study of when the navigation of the Great Lakes became well connected to the rest of navigating world.

When I moved to Indianpolis, the buildings to two auto makers were still there and still had signs and/or other decor indicating the original use of the buildings. (Cole and Stutz)

Dayton Ohio apparently had a lot of early auto builders. There, as in some other cities, when the Detroit companies began to to outrun them, local manufacturers turned to specialties and began suppling components and accessories for the more successful manufacturers. When you think of Dayton, You have to think of Kettering. Some became builders of transmissions which they sold to Detroit.

It has been my observation and opinion that the ability to ship Iron Ore via ships on the Great Lakes and to some extent coal is the reason Detroit in particular and Michigan in general became the center-of-the-universe for auto manufacturing.

 

[landtuna]

Words are redefined all the time. That's why printed dictionaries had new editions with considerable frequency and online dictionaries are constantly updated. Not only are new words added, but many "old" words are redefined or given additional or broader meanings.

I don't know about a redefinition of radio but the current definition is: the transmission and reception of electromagnetic waves of radio frequency, especially those carrying sound messages.

Today, "radio" means any real-time audio source that does not have pictures. Radio may be distributed by AM, FM, satellite, cellular radio or wired Internet hookups.

I would correct your statement to include the word "programming" after "Radio".

I am reminded of the term "rediffusion" which means the "rebroadcasting of radio programs by wire" and was a term often used in England and it's Crown Colonies from the late 20's into, at least, the 50's.

Rediffusion TV was the brand of a Hong Kong TV broadcaster when last I was in HK in 1966. I assume it lasted until the Crown Colony became a Chinese province.

The British distinguished the kinds of radio by calling the on-air version "wireless".

Not only the Brits but virtually everyone worldwide called early "radio" "the wireless". In fact, some Brits still do. We Americans tend to think of "wireless" as ship-to-shore radio used on the high seas but of course it was, and is, much more than that.

When satellite is called "Sirius / XM Satellite Radio" and iHeart's streaming is called iHeart Radio and Apple's equivalent is called "iTunes Radio" there is no logic in bucking a trend.

Although the frequencies are different there is a purpose in identifying satellite radio as "radio" in the company of AM, FM, amateur, etc. Streaming is streaming radio programming, not radio and there is no logic in referring to it in the same context as OTA radio. The fact that people use incorrect labels does not make them correct.

Consumers themselves want to listen to music and "radio" on their portable device, which is generally a smartphone... and when listening to any kind of real time audio, they mostly think of it as "radio" irrespective of the transmission system.

The circuitry within a smartphone allows you to listen to radio programming sent over cellular circuits but it isn't radio in the sense that a real radio receiver cannot receive or decode it. You are listening to radio programming over your smartphone (which is not so much a phone as it is a combination of receivers, and a camera and a web browser etc.).

Continuing to think of radio as only AM and FM will destroy broadcasting entirely as the consumer has expanded their definition along with their expectations.

What will destroy radio broadcasting is not how consumers use the term but rather the continuing growth of banality in programming coupled with the onslaught of commercial load. I have given up radio for the most part because I cannot find programming I like in my market - I have to go to the Internet and way across the country to find it and it isn't convenient for me to do so when I am away from my computer. And even when I had my personal programming here it was coupled with longer and longer stopsets which are absolute killers for me. I could not change stations because there was only one station playing my music so I just hit the off button. Radio lost another listener (and yes, I realize I am not inside their desired demo but losing any previously faithful listener cannot be good for the station or the industry).

As I have stated before, my next car need not have radio of any kind in it. Just a good amp, good speakers and a flash player.

 

[landtuna]

There's a reason why the auto industry took root in Michigan. That's where the carriage and wagon makers were.

One significant carriage maker was in South Bend, IN.

 

[landtuna]

Why were the carriage and wagon makers based in Michigan?

Wood workers were plentiful in MI. Think of all the cabinet makers and furniture manufacturers located there. Companies like Steelcase are still in MI. Since carriages and the early motor cars had wood chassis and bodies it would have been natural to build them where the skill sets were plentiful.

 

[LKellerIII]

Quote from landtuna (I didn't want to quote his long response in its entirety): "As I have stated before, my next car need not have radio of any kind in it. Just a good amp, good speakers and a flash player."

I recently bought a new car - AM/FM/CD/Sirius XM capable/MP3 capable. Sirius was free for the first 3 months. Though I enjoyed it for a couple of weeks, I got bored with it quickly. I did not subscribe when the time came. I don't miss it.

As for radio, though I make no claims to be an intellectual, it's NPR or nothing. I like news and information, and the commercial load on regular NewsRadio is atrocious - it must be damn near one minute of ads for every minute of news - can't stand it. As for music - it's my MP3 player...haven't bought a CD in years now.

If my car had Wi-fi (as Chevys now do), I would probably stream Pandora, or something similar.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Wood workers were plentiful in MI. Think of all the cabinet makers and furniture manufacturers located there. Companies like Steelcase are still in MI. Since carriages and the early motor cars had wood chassis and bodies it would have been natural to build them where the skill sets were plentiful.

Woodworkers were found in a number of places. Tell me where Conestoga wagons were built.

And tell me what part of the country was devasted by over-harvesting of trees to make wood spokes for the early automobile along with other wood used in cars. (The family vehicle that we owned when I was a child had a wood floorboard!) Yes, long before strip mining for coal became an issue in Appalachia, deforestation by automakers was a major problem.

Yes, I am quite familiar with the furniture manufacturers in Michigan. I worked for a business that had a location in Grand Rapids and my daughter was based in Kalamazoo for about 7 years. I don't want to thread-jack and start a political discussion here, but I have an observation about furniture makers in Michigan.

The folks that make the FINE office furniture (and there are several companies located there) tend to be the Dutch living in Western Michigan around Grand Rapids and Holland. And for many years, the dominant religious thinking of the area was provided by the people of The Dutch Reformed Church. They tended to be a 'conservative theology' group. And one of the earliest community struggles over the issue of how the church would deal with homosexuality that came to my attention was in the Grand Have/Spring Lake area. And when I inquired as to how that could happen in a Dutch Reformed setting as conservative as they were, the answer I got was: "It was a self inflicted wound. When office furniture lost it's boxy, government look and became stylish, the old conservative furniture manufacturers brought in artistic stylists to make beautiful designs for their prestige office furniture. And guess what comes with the package when you import artists and stylists." You brought them here to work for you. Now they want to worship with you. Good luck with that.

I have no knowledge how many Dutch wood working folks populated Eastern Michigan and the Detroit area. So we are left with the question: If wood workers drove the location of automobile manufacturing, why didn't it happen at Holland or Muskegon or maybe Benton Harbor?

I may stay awake all night worrying about that tonight.

 

[landtuna]

Woodworkers were found in a number of places.

Yes, I am quite familiar with the furniture manufacturers in Michigan.

The folks that make the FINE office furniture (and there are several companies located there) tend to be the Dutch living in Western Michigan around Grand Rapids and Holland.

I am also familiar with the woodworkers of Grand Rapids and Holland because half of my family came out of that region, one owned and operated his own furniture factory for many years. Recently I found my mother's high school yearbook online and browsing through the kids in her class the majority of them had Dutch surnames. I never associated that with any type of religious affiliation, just that the predominate industry surrounding Grand Rapids was working with wood. It certainly wasn't the only place however. One of the largest and oldest carriage makers were the Studebaker Brothers who were based in South Bend, IN., and as people here have noted there were many others scattered around the upper Midwest.

To answer your question about the location of the auto industry requires a look at the turn of the 19th century and geographics. The Great Depression was very hard on the auto industry and many of the little companies didn't make it. Of those who did most ended up consolidating with other marques and most of those ended up in and around Detroit. The original auto makers probably originated in Detroit due to a combination of advantages:

1. An available workforce (immigration had brought a ton of skilled craftsmen to the USA and a great many had migrated to Michigan).
2. Transportation for both raw materials (coal, steel, ores on the Great Lakes) and a conflux of railroads.
3. Raw materials (iron ore from MN, coal from Appalachia, steel from Pittsburgh etc.). It is said that Ford's River Rouge plant could take in raw materials at one end and finished cars would drive out the other.
4. Markets - most of the population of the USA was then located east of the Mississippi River so distance to the majority of buyers was closer than if the factories had been located in the Deep South or West.

And, if you have ever watched Ford Motor's semi-documentary "The American Road" you can see another reason - the demand from rural America for better transportation than the horse and buggy. Roads were non-existent or in terrible repair and the original horseless buggies were designed to travel over those roads at speeds that could not be matched by horse and buggy. Farmers now had access to cities in reasonable time. Doctors and tradesmen could sell their services and products to farmers and other rural dwellers. The horseless carriages opened up American to commercial expansion in ways never before possible. Detroit was in the center of this supply and demand and was a natural location for this industry at that time.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

I am also familiar with the woodworkers of Grand Rapids and Holland because half of my family came out of that region, one owned and operated his own furniture factory for many years. Recently I found my mother's high school yearbook online and browsing through the kids in her class the majority of them had Dutch surnames. I never associated that with any type of religious affiliation, just that the predominate industry surrounding Grand Rapids was working with wood. It certainly wasn't the only place however.

People in Christian church organizations sometimes speak of Nashville TN being "The Buckle of the Bible BELT."

Well, there is a NORTHERN/MID-WESTERN Bible Belt also and if it has a buckle, it is Grand Rapids. Universities, Seminaries, Publishing houses, denominational headquarters, etc. Back 50 years ago when religious content on the radio was quite different in style to today's programs, a large portion of those old broadcasts originated in Grand Rapids.

In 1975 we took a camping tour up the coast of Western Michigan. We were at a campground in Holland, MI and I was reading the local paper. It was election season for the Holland City Council. Of the 11 candidates, 10 listed the Reformed Church as their 'religion connection'. (The Midwest at the South are places where you would make such information prominent.)

It would be years later that I would learn their are two major branches of The Dutch Reformed Church in this country, and I use this term with a smile... "they SMOTHERED the Northern Bible Belt and Michigan in particular the way the Southern Baptists smothered the South."

My father "grew up with the automobile age". He talked cars and features the way men today discuss baseball and football. I have in my garage the 80 year old set of Craftsman socket wrenches and other tools that earned him enough money working on people cars and tractors to buy his first farm. He talked about Henry Ford and other players in the world of automobiles like you and I might discuss NASCAR drivers of today.

The industry that shaped Detroit (and maybe the other way around also) changed the shape of the entire nation.

 

[davideduardo]

I don't know about a redefinition of radio but the current definition is: the transmission and reception of electromagnetic waves of radio frequency, especially those carrying sound messages.

That's an old dictionary definition. Most Americans under 50 consider the word to mean a real time audios source that does not have pictures. Since radio and advertising are consumer driven, that is the definition the industries have to follow.

Rediffusion TV was the brand of a Hong Kong TV broadcaster when last I was in HK in 1966. I assume it lasted until the Crown Colony became a Chinese province.

Redifiussion may be a brand in that specific case, but in general it is written with a lower case "r" as in rediffusion. It was first used in the 30's to distribute radio programs by wire, with one use being to provide programming that was not allowed over the air due to government monopolies. Places as diverse as Hong Kong, Bermuda and Trinidad had redifussion systems with separate programming which was called "radio " although distributed by wires. It is a nearly 80 year old example of how the perception of radio is not just LW, MW, SW and FM RF signals.

Not only the Brits but virtually everyone worldwide called early "radio" "the wireless".

Only where English was spoken. It was not called "wireless" in Latin America or wherever else English was not the language. In America, wireless tended to be thought of as point to point communication, with radio being the broadcast application. However, publications used "wireless" generically well into the 20's. But an example of the transformation was "Wireless Age" becoming "Popular Radio" in the mid-20's, while in England "Wireless World" continued on for about 80 years.

Although the frequencies are different there is a purpose in identifying satellite radio as "radio" in the company of AM, FM, amateur, etc. Streaming is streaming radio programming, not radio and there is no logic in referring to it in the same context as OTA radio. The fact that people use incorrect labels does not make them correct.

But if, for example, folks stop using "phone" as part of "cellular phone" the companies that market them will adapt to the terminology without batting an eyelash. You are using what in marketing is called the "manufacturing model" where the design engineers know what the public should have. Those using the "marketing model" consult with the consumer and make products that they want.

Consumers call all forms of real time audio "radio" so that is the correct definition of the term. To insist otherwise is a formula for bankruptcy.

The circuitry within a smartphone allows you to listen to radio programming sent over cellular circuits but it isn't radio in the sense that a real radio receiver cannot receive or decode it. You are listening to radio programming over your smartphone (which is not so much a phone as it is a combination of receivers, and a camera and a web browser etc.).

You are looking at how the thing is made. The consumer looks at how it is used. One of its functions is being a radio.

What will destroy radio broadcasting is not how consumers use the term but rather the continuing growth of banality in programming coupled with the onslaught of commercial load.

Commercial loads today are, on average, at least 25% lower than in the 50's and 60's. And one persons banality is another's entertainment.

I have given up radio for the most part because I cannot find programming I like in my market (and yes, I realize I am not inside their desired demo but losing any previously faithful listener cannot be good for the station or the industry).

You have admitted to be pushing 70. Radio cares little for 55-64 and not at all for the geezer demos. They can't make any money from them, so they don't try to serve them directly.