Just when you thought Michael Bolton couldn't get any worse

[vchimpanzee]

The title (and topic) of this thread is Just when you thought Michael Bolton couldn't get any worse, and a description of his stint as a guest star on Two and a Half Men. So maybe you didn't criticize his acting, but I was addressing the topic of the thread.

I hadn't even seen the episode and didn't even know he acted since all I had seen was the commercial, but the acting was pretty bad too.

When I did see the episode somehow his singing wasn't as bad as it seemed on the commercial, but I was always glad when they told him to be quiet.

 

[vchimpanzee]

I find it hard to believe that anyone who listens to much music isn't aware of the term "Power Ballad". There are lots of solo artists and bands that specialize in power ballads, at least as part of their repertoire. Bands like Journey, Foreigner, and REO Speedwagon had most of their hits in the Power Ballad genre, as did solo artists Laura Branigan and Celine Dion. Gary Puckett and the Union Gap was one of the earliest bands to achieve most of their success with Power Ballads.

I despise the music of most of these people. I actually like Gary Puckett and the Union Gap, who get played a lot on America's Best Music. Even "Glee" did a version of one of their songs. I do make an exception for Laura Branigan's "How Am I Supposed to Live Without You", which Michael wrote and recorded (and wrecked). It's still not really my taste but not that bad.

 

[landtuna]

You're reminding me of my dad. He's gotten extremely picky about music in his old age. My mom is the total opposite. Her tastes have broadened.

My tastes have remained pretty much the same since I was a teen. The only thing I listen to now that wasn't even available when I was a kid is what we now call New Age but I am pretty selective on artists within that genre.

My father was an acoustic guitar player and specialized in singing songs in the Marty Robbins style. As real young kids my sisters and I would go to sleep with him playing and singing. So you see, I was introduced to ballads at a very early age and pretty much know Ives and Robbins by heart.

 

[Music Lover]

The point that Avid Listener and I were making earlier is that ballads aren't just limited to the story-song style. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballad#Pop_and_rock_ballads

 

[Avid Listener]

I apologize for having missed your declaration that the meaning of "ballad" had been changed. However, you failed also to notify Merriam-Webster and a whole boatload of other definers of the proper English language.

I will stick with the traditional until notified by reasonable authority thenk yew.

I did not say "changed", I said "expanded".

You might consider other sources for the definition of the phrase "power ballad". And note, that's phrase we're talking about, not a word. One definition is:

power ballad(Noun)
An emotional rock song, generally focused on love, delivered with powerful vocals.

I despise the music of most of these people. I actually like Gary Puckett and the Union Gap, who get played a lot on America's Best Music. Even "Glee" did a version of one of their songs. I do make an exception for Laura Branigan's "How Am I Supposed to Live Without You", which Michael wrote and recorded (and wrecked). It's still not really my taste but not that bad.

So, all that proves is you're an old fart whose musical tastes are stuck in the past.

My tastes have remained pretty much the same since I was a teen. The only thing I listen to now that wasn't even available when I was a kid is what we now call New Age but I am pretty selective on artists within that genre.

And another old fart checks in. I am an old fart myself, but I have tried to keep growing my entire life. Even though I could have done better, I would never publicly admit to my tastes remaining mired in what I liked in my teens. Granted, I still like most of what I liked then, but I'm proud and happy that I've increased the scope of what I like and appreciate far beyond that. To do otherwise is pretty pathetic.

 

[vchimpanzee]

We already know that but I like to post exceptions to the rule whenever I can.

 

[Music Lover]

Right on Avid Listener!

 

[landtuna]

The point that Avid Listener and I were making earlier is that ballads aren't just limited to the story-song style. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballad#Pop_and_rock_ballads

I really hate to be the one to inform you of this but Wikipedia, as useful as it sometimes can be, is not an authoritative source for the English language (or most any other subject).

 

[Avid Listener]

I really hate to be the one to inform you of this but Wikipedia, as useful as it sometimes can be, is not an authoritative source for the English language (or most any other subject).

And it gives me great pleasure to inform you that despite Wikipedia's lack of gravitas as a source of information, it is usually well footnoted. So, even if you reject the entry that Music Lover linked to, the original source is also cited. You can go to the original source of information, N. Cohen, Folk Music: a Regional Exploration (Greenwood, 2005), p. 297.

When you've checked that book out of the library, or actually bought it, and read it, or at least read page 297, get back to us.

 

[landtuna]

I did not say "changed", I said "expanded".

You might consider other sources for the definition of the phrase "power ballad". And note, that's phrase we're talking about, not a word.

Since when does "change" not also mean "expanded" (or "contracted" or "replaced")?

We are talking about the meaning of the word "ballad" and unless and until it is revised by the recognized authority on the English language it remains as defined previously.

I am an old fart myself, but I have tried to keep growing my entire life. Even though I could have done better, I would never publicly admit to my tastes remaining mired in what I liked in my teens.

I did not admit to my tastes being "mired". Perhaps my teen years were much more fulfilling than yours. Perhaps my teen years were subjected to much more variety than yours. Perhaps I was just a happier person and perfectly content in what I had discovered. I have sampled many other forms of music since then including having played first chair cornet in a marching band but I haven't listened to band music in quite some time. Had my fill of it. Listened to disco and hated most of it. Listened to grunge, rap, hip-hop and would love to kill the inventors of those collective pieces of crap. Developed a taste for some forms of classical music and, as mentioned before, New Age. You seem to think I still am musically in my teens. You could not be more wrong.

And, before calling anyone "pathetic" please observe you don't know me, not even one little bit. You know only what you've been told here and that isn't enough to insult someone. I have tried very hard to put up with your inane comments as I did with Mr. Leonard but I am not having much success at maintaining a polite conversation so, if you desire, you can join Fred in Ignoreland. Just say the word. I am done arguing with you.

 

[Music Lover]

And it gives me great pleasure to inform you that despite Wikipedia's lack of gravitas as a source of information, it is usually well footnoted. So, even if you reject the entry that Music Lover linked to, the original source is also cited. You can go to the original source of information, N. Cohen, Folk Music: a Regional Exploration (Greenwood, 2005), p. 297.

When you've checked that book out of the library, or actually bought it, and read it, or at least read page 297, get back to us.

I second that. Wikipedia entries are very well footnoted. That's why I find it to be just as reliable as any other encyclopedia.

 

[landtuna]

I second that. Wikipedia entries are very well footnoted. That's why I find it to be just as reliable as any other encyclopedia.

Except that said footnote applied to a music source, not a language source. We are discussing the definition of 'ballad', not whether or not a specific song is a ballad.

Here, again, the definition from a recognized language source:

A ballad is a song that tells a story, and it can be dramatic, funny, or romantic. You can find ballads in a variety of musical styles, from country-western to rock n' roll.

So, if it tells a story it can be a ballad. If not, well, you know.

 

[Avid Listener]

Since when does "change" not also mean "expanded" (or "contracted" or "replaced")?

We are talking about the meaning of the word "ballad" and unless and until it is revised by the recognized authority on the English language it remains as defined previously.

Expanded is a more precise variation on change. Not all changes are expansions, even though all expansions are changes. And, we are not talking about the meaning of the word "ballad", we're talking about the meaning of the phrase "power ballad".

And, before calling anyone "pathetic" please observe you don't know me, not even one little bit.

Re-read what I wrote. I described a particular action (more specifically, an inaction) as pathetic. I described a particular size of shoe. You're the one who choose to believe I was saying the shoe fits you.

Except that said footnote applied to a music source, not a language source. We are discussing the definition of 'ballad', not whether or not a specific song is a ballad.

I repeat, we are discussing a phrase, not just a single word.

 

[Music Lover]

Except that said footnote applied to a music source, not a language source. We are discussing the definition of 'ballad', not whether or not a specific song is a ballad.

Getting fed up with you Mr. Know It All. We are talking about ballad here in terms of music, therefore a music source applies.


perfect song www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C_oNMH0GT

 

[ContinuousWave]

Actually this post started concerning Michael Bolton.......the ballad argument needs to be in an another thread

 

[landtuna]

And, we are not talking about the meaning of the word "ballad", we're talking about the meaning of the phrase "power ballad".

Noooooooo. I was always questioning the definition of ballad. I believe I stated very early on I had never heard of a genre called power ballad. You people seem to think if a song has a powerful vocal it is a ballad. Untrue.

Re-read what I wrote. I described a particular action (more specifically, an inaction) as pathetic. I described a particular size of shoe. You're the one who choose to believe I was saying the shoe fits you.

We both know exactly what you meant.

I repeat, we are discussing a phrase, not just a single word.

I am not discussing anything, any longer. You can use your language in any way you desire but don't call it English.

 

[Avid Listener]

Actually this post started concerning Michael Bolton.......the ballad argument needs to be in an another thread

Michael Bolton is one of the foremost singers of power ballads out there. He built his career out of writing and singing power ballads. Therefore, discussing the phrase "power ballad" is totally germane to discussing Michael Bolton.

 

[Avid Listener]

Speaking of "Power Ballads", check this list of the Top 25 Power Ballads of all time.

The article is almost unreadable. The opinions expressed therein are bogus. But, it is a fairly representative list of Power Ballads, and might help those who cannot grasp the concept to understand what Power Ballads actually are.

 

[landtuna]

Ballad definition: a song that tells a story Therefore:

Love Hurts - Nazarth - Does not tell a story therefore not a ballad
Headed For A Heartbreak - Winger - ditto
Alone Again - Dokken - nope
High Enough - Damn Yankees - nope
Can't Live Without Your Love and Affection - Nelson - lyrics undefined
More Than Words - Extreme - nada
Silent Lucidity - Queensryche - nope, not even close
Carrie - Europe - nice try
Heaven - Warrant - must hold the record for titles but no, not a chance
Close My Eyes Forever - Lita Ford - nope
Cryin' - Aerosmith - nah
Fly To The Angels - Slaughter - you kiddin' me?
To Be With You - Mr. Big - another million title song with different lyrics but.....no
Don't Close Your Eyes - Kix - not even close
When The Children Cry - White Lion - nope
The Ballad of Jayne - L.A. Guns - despite 'ballad' in the title, it isn't
Every Rose Has Its Thorn - Poison - no
Home Sweet Home - Motley Crue - nope, just more schmaltz
Here I Go Again - Whitesnake - not even close
Civil War - Gun's 'n Roses - stolen movie lines but not a ballad
18 and Life - Skid Row - wow, we have a winnah although it is most forgettable as a song of any genre
The Price - Twisted Sister - nope
All I Want to Do Is Make Love to You - Heart - another winnah despite the incredible cheesy lyrics
Bringin’ on the Heartbreak - Def Leppard - nope
Dream On - Aerosmith - no

2 out of 25 but read some of the comments:

"the writer of this article is an idiot, like most yahoo writers,"
"These are all head bangers ballads, not necessarily power ballads."
"Some of these "Hairspray Metal" power ballads are not actually ballads."
"Garbage list."

You seem to think that any song with a huge, thunderous lead vocal is a power ballad. Not true. Loud does not equal ballad. A ballad has to tell a story. No story = no ballad.

 

[Music Lover]

LOL! You still don't get it!

Here's a source you will trust, which explains that ballad has expanded to equal a song with a slow tempo: www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/469977/pop-ballad

Even the Oxford English Dictionary includes that:

(Oxford English Dictionary) Etymology: medieval Italian ballata, Spanish ballade, Middle French balade

1. a. A light, simple song of any kind; (now) spec. a sentimental or romantic composition, typically consisting of two or more verses sung to the same melody with only light musical accompaniment.

b. A popular, usually narrative, song, spec. one celebrating or scurrilously attacking persons or institutions.
c. A narrative poem in short stanzas, esp. one that tells a popular story.

d. In jazz and popular music: a slow song or piece of music, esp. one of a sentimental or romantic nature.

Those songs on that list fall under definition D.