dying AM radio

[Unregistered]

AM radio is approaching the graveyard. HD AM won't help.

other nations are moving AM station to FM it seems.
When will the USA do it ?

 

[MarioMania]

Never

 

[Rebel Rouser]

Correct. The United States has more people in it than Russia and China. When the On Line Stations go off during a storm, FM Stations get hit hard with their transmitter sites on some big hill or mountain somewhere in more of a remote area, a small AM station is easy to get back on the air than FM. We can do the old fashion thing of string a copper wire between tow poles, tune it up, and the AM Station is back on.

BTW: Cumulus, Clear Channel, CBS, and Emmis have too much money tied up in AM and Digital AM. They would take a huge hit on the stock market if they abandon their investments in their AM Stations.

 

[Avid Listener]

AM radio is approaching the graveyard. HD AM won't help.

other nations are moving AM station to FM it seems.
When will the USA do it ?

It will take time. The big corporations who have large investments in AM technology are milking their assets for all they can get from them, but they aren't investing in upgrading. Eventually, the AM facilities will be used up, worn out, and then they'll be abandoned. It'll take some time, but eventually the AM frequency band will be re-allocated to some other purpose and AM radio will disappear. Just don't expect it to happen soon.

 

[davideduardo]

Correct. The United States has more people in it than Russia and China.

Huh? China has about five times the population of the USA.

When the On Line Stations go off during a storm, FM Stations get hit hard with their transmitter sites on some big hill or mountain somewhere in more of a remote area, a small AM station is easy to get back on the air than FM. We can do the old fashion thing of string a copper wire between tow poles, tune it up, and the AM Station is back on.

First, not all that many "small AM station" engineers have the gear (an OIB, for example) to rig an inverted L antenna.

But more important, just as many AM stations are in rural locations as FMs. In fact, far more FMs are in central city locations (Hancock, Willis, ESB, etc.) than AM stations. AM's are often on the lowest, most flood prone land and can be difficult to reach in major storms.

If anything, I'd say it's a toss up since AM's and FM's can be equally accessible or inaccessible.

BTW: Cumulus, Clear Channel, CBS, and Emmis have too much money tied up in AM and Digital AM. They would take a huge hit on the stock market if they abandon their investments in their AM Stations.

The large public companies have all taken impairment charges on their AM stations, so the asset values are nowhere near the level they might have been at a decade or so ago. The investment in HD for AM's in major markets is a very small figure, and likely has been fully amortized already.

As long as an AM is making money or serves a significant strategic function in a local cluster, none of the major operators will be shutting of a KFI or WiNS or KLBJ or WSB. But when the station is of no value and can never be made profitable, it will go away, either by a sale or closure (think 1310 in Dearborn, MI or WQEW in New York).

 

[davideduardo]

It will take time. The big corporations who have large investments in AM technology are milking their assets for all they can get from them, but they aren't investing in upgrading. Eventually, the AM facilities will be used up, worn out, and then they'll be abandoned. It'll take some time, but eventually the AM frequency band will be re-allocated to some other purpose and AM radio will disappear. Just don't expect it to happen soon.

Most AMs are being treated like MLPs. They will have a declining revenue stream, but as long as they produce, they are of value.

Since the major broadcast companies have already taken severe impairment charges for AM asset values, there is really nowhere near the "large investment" amount you would seem to believe exists. And there is no unamortized investment in technology at all.

 

[davideduardo]

AM radio is approaching the graveyard. HD AM won't help.

other nations are moving AM station to FM it seems.
When will the USA do it ?

Other countries did not license anywhere near the number of FMs in proportion to the population as the US has done. So in the US, there are few opportunities to move AMs to FM without buying an existing FM or accepting a mediocre translator as a solution.

 

[Ravens]

We're all approaching the graveyard.

 

[ContinuousWave]

Correct. The United States has more people in it than Russia and China. When the On Line Stations go off during a storm, FM Stations get hit hard with their transmitter sites on some big hill or mountain somewhere in more of a remote area, a small AM station is easy to get back on the air than FM. We can do the old fashion thing of string a copper wire between tow poles, tune it up, and the AM Station is back on.

BTW: Cumulus, Clear Channel, CBS, and Emmis have too much money tied up in AM and Digital AM. They would take a huge hit on the stock market if they abandon their investments in their AM Stations.

I don't know where you get your "facts" but you are sadly WRONG!!!!

China is the most populist country in the world...India is second....US is THIRD!!!
http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats8.htm

As to HD AM, CC/iHeart, Cumeless and others have turned OFF a lot of their HD AMs.....KTRH in Houston (cc/iF) is a 50KW and the best coverage AM in the market....HD has been off for almost a year if not more...Cumeless turned off HD on WLS and other top10 AMs.....In fact, only certain markets under Cumeless gets HD on FMs...and then not all stations....same with cc/iF...only top 20 markets get FM HD on all or most signals...(AND I KNOW THIS for a fact from engineers in both Houston, #6 and Dallas, #5 and other Texas markets!!)..

Next time, before you post, you really need to read the right facts....

IS AM going away?? NOPE not where the signal has good coverage......small AMs have been known to turn off for almost a year, come back for a day, and then go silent for another almost year time, just to keep the license in hopes someone will buy it...others have been turned in and deleted....(a Class C 60m north that had been owned by several owners in less than 5 years finally shut off for good and the license had been deleted...shame as it was the ONLY signal in the town of ~6000.....)

I rest my facts...


-.-. .-- forever!!

 

[ContinuousWave]

Huh? China has about five times the population of the USA.



First, not all that many "small AM station" engineers have the gear (an OIB, for example) to rig an inverted L antenna.

Dont need an OIB David...an inverted L cut to 90 degrees length or 1/4wl then put up with as much as vertical as possible loads easily around 50ohms....I did that as a teenager on 80m ham bands....found I had cut it short....a simple 4inch long, 4turns per inch of stock coil from a local electronics shop brought SWR down to 1.2:1 compared to the former 10:1 but I did not see any real signal improvement..but it DID transmit and cover fine for this 14 yr old with a 200w tube transmitter to work stations both local and distant...if the "engineer" is not smart enough to do something that simple, he IS the problem...and one of those types stations hire...who do not know RF and antennas at all

The rest of your statement I agree with.......

CW forever...it is the ORIGINAL digital/binary system.......1 or 0, dash or dot It aint dead yet either!!

 

[davideduardo]

O

Dont need an OIB David...an inverted L cut to 90 degrees length or 1/4wl then put up with as much as vertical as possible loads easily around 50ohms....!

My experience is that a tape-measure inverted L has two problems. First is that the imprecise tuning and differences in the vertical component often cause harmonics of some magnitude. Then you have the issue that some fussy transmitters won't talk to anything but a perfectly matched load.

When I built my first AM 50 years ago 38 of my 42 local competitors had long wire antennas and some had more RF on the harmonics than on the fundamental. I made some nice extra money tuning those suckers...

 

[John Gallagher]

Depends on the format and the city I suppose. Just saw the Nov 14 Chicago ratings and WBBM-AM seems to still do well.

 

[Avid Listener]

Depends on the format and the city I suppose. Just saw the Nov 14 Chicago ratings and WBBM-AM seems to still do well.

That's the standard response, used in every single thread about the decline of any sort of media. There are plenty of AM radio stations that "still do well", if you count holding on to their audience as it grows older and dies as "doing well". But ask yourself, how much competition do they have in the all-news market? How are they doing with younger demographics? Are new listeners tuning in WBBM-AM, or are new listeners tuning in WCFS-FM? Do they have an increasing share of a declining market? Does one station in Chicago prove that most of the other AM stations across the country are not doing very well?

 

[Ravens]

"Doing well" means one thing. They make money. Ratings don't mean jack except they can be used to sell the station.

Lots of AM stations make money. The AM band isn't going to be shuttered anytime in the next couple decades.

 

[semoochie]

Huh? China has about five times the population of the USA.



First, not all that many "small AM station" engineers have the gear (an OIB, for example) to rig an inverted L antenna.

But more important, just as many AM stations are in rural locations as FMs. In fact, far more FMs are in central city locations (Hancock, Willis, ESB, etc.) than AM stations. AM's are often on the lowest, most flood prone land and can be difficult to reach in major storms.

If anything, I'd say it's a toss up since AM's and FM's can be equally accessible or inaccessible.



The large public companies have all taken impairment charges on their AM stations, so the asset values are nowhere near the level they might have been at a decade or so ago. The investment in HD for AM's in major markets is a very small figure, and likely has been fully amortized already.

As long as an AM is making money or serves a significant strategic function in a local cluster, none of the major operators will be shutting of a KFI or WiNS or KLBJ or WSB. But when the station is of no value and can never be made profitable, it will go away, either by a sale or closure (think 1310 in Dearborn, MI or WQEW in New York).

When you mentioned 1310 in Dearborn MI, I happened to remember that back in college, I was made aware of the station and it's ID, which read, "WKNR Dearborn, Detroit's only rock & roll station!".

 

[davideduardo]

When you mentioned 1310 in Dearborn MI, I happened to remember that back in college, I was made aware of the station and it's ID, which read, "WKNR Dearborn, Detroit's only rock & roll station!".

And back in the late 40's it called itself "Detroit's Most Powerful Independent".

 

[Avid Listener]

"Doing well" means one thing. They make money. Ratings don't mean jack except they can be used to sell the station.

Lots of AM stations make money. The AM band isn't going to be shuttered anytime in the next couple decades.

These kinds of things don't take place in a vacuum. The decision on whether or not to re-allocate the AM band to some other purpose will be made by politicians and bureaucrats, not by the business people who operate radio stations. If a small number of AM stations remain profitable but the majority are losing money, and if other businesses are demanding access to the frequency band allocated to AM radio, it will come down to a question of which group is petitioning the government for action more effectively. It's not a question of media companies making a unilateral decision. It will come down to the companies who are operating the last few profitable AM stations deciding which they'd rather have, continued access to the AM band or some other profitable thing.

For example, as a purely hypothetical example, if given a choice between the government expanding the current FM band by allocating more of the current spectrum so that there would be more FM stations combined with a relaxation of the rules so that those few operators of AM stations could have extra FM stations versus maintaining the status quo on AM, how many of the corporations operating AM stations would chose to support maintaining the status quo? Bear in mind, those corporations would also probably stand to make nice profits from their endeavours that would benefit from alternate uses for the current AM band as well.

The example eriedj posted, WBBM-AM, is a CBS owned and operated property. The content of WBBM-AM is simulcast on WCFS-FM. Do you think CBS would object to losing access to 780 KHz in an AM band reallocation if the government would allow CBS to own a few more TV stations, or some other equally valuable consideration?

 

[TheBigA]

If a small number of AM stations remain profitable but the majority are losing money, and if other businesses are demanding access to the frequency band allocated to AM radio, it will come down to a question of which group is petitioning the government for action more effectively.

But no other business is demanding access to AM. There's really nothing else that can be done with it. The telecom carriers want space higher in the spectrum. We've discussed this many times elsewhere. One of the reasons why it's doubtful the government would ever move it to another part of the spectrum, if because no one wants the part of the spectrum where it currently operates.

 

[Rebel Rouser]

Wow, I just scan read some of your comments. AM is not coming to an end just yet. It make take 10 years or so before Congress and the Commission have reposition all the small market AMs to FM Translators. After a Thunderstorm with a Tornado in it, AM is easier to get back on than a FM. Many AM still have transmitter/studio sites together, and if they do, they should hang on to them. David Eduardo is correct on what he is saying about rebuilding and tuning the ATU at the AM Site and feed it into some emergency antenna. I'm not a engineer, but I have heard that a L Network is not that hard to build, just keep the parts on hand. Old tube transmitters don't need to see 50 Ohms, they can feed into a coat hanger, but the new solid state boxes are fussy, and would load into nothing that is not 50 Ohms.

 

[davideduardo]

These kinds of things don't take place in a vacuum. The decision on whether or not to re-allocate the AM band to some other purpose will be made by politicians and bureaucrats, not by the business people who operate radio stations. If a small number of AM stations remain profitable but the majority are losing money, and if other businesses are demanding access to the frequency band allocated to AM radio, it will come down to a question of which group is petitioning the government for action more effectively. It's not a question of media companies making a unilateral decision. It will come down to the companies who are operating the last few profitable AM stations deciding which they'd rather have, continued access to the AM band or some other profitable thing.

The AM band is just 1.1 MHz wide, conducted by groundwave only in the daytime and subject to highly variable skip at vast distances at night.

There is not enough spectrum to be useful for anything. And the propagation characteristics are so bizarre that nobody would want .54 to 1.7 MHz for anything.

On the other hand, several things are happening in the very same non-vacuum you describe.

First, some of the several thousand "stations that should never have been licensed" are thinning out. Over time, this may allow some of the better or more viable signals to improve.

Second, there are plenty of ways for an AM to be profitable without ratings. The many ethnic options ranging from Farsi programming in LA to Russian programming in New York to Spanish in Minneapolis can be very profitable if the station is bought at the right price. Then there are the religious options, ranging from IHR which just bought KHJ in Los Angeles to Family Radio which purchased WQEW in New York. Beyond that, there are plenty of other non-ratings-dependent things that will make money for an AM.

The band will thin out. But for the moment, the number of stations going silent is so few that we can get the impression that there are still buyers out there and there are viable formats.

So you have a tiny piece of spectrum that probably nobody wants vs. 5000 operating AM stations, most of which are on the air and trying to make a profit.