Could 1210 WPHT be a better talk station if.........

[Jul]

They had an actual news department and followed the lead of WCAU-AM and WWDB-FM and be a full service general interest talk station that's not all conservative talk, all the time? WPHT should not let KYW restrict them in any way. It would be good to have a 3rd option for radio news in this town, (KYW and WHYY being the 2 that cover local news)

 

[AMRocks]

They don't need their own news department. They have one already -- KYW. Why couldn't an anchor from KYW do a cut in or two every hour on 1210? Their co-owned. So why not have an update from the KYW newsroom with a tag line of something like, "for details on these stories and more, tune to KYW 1060." Great cross promotion.

 

[FredLeonard]

Even the Daily News operates with a newsroom separate of and independent from the Inquirer. They don't just serve as a vehicle for "cross promotion." They offer a choice.
The right keeps saying competition is good but apparently cost cutting and cross promotion are better - for the company, if not the public.
WPHT already has out-sourced news. Going from one out-sourced provider to another doesn't seem to be adding or changing much.

Times was when WCAU offered vigorous competition in local news to KYW. So did WIP for that matter. WWDB not so much. No more. No competition and KYW has gotten fat and lazy. They don't cover local news any more - that is unless you consider doing man on the street interviews at the Melrose Diner or reading wire copy over a cell phone from where something happened yesterday is "coverage."

But it's not going to happen. Forget it, Julius. WPHT won't ever be any better. Neither will KYW. They will keep cutting costs and audiences and ad revenues will continue to decline. WPHT and KYW are like SEPTA. Service is bad, so people stop riding. Revenue goes down, so they make cuts and service gets worse. More people stop riding. So more cuts and even worse service. This is the typical end-cycle in lots of industries.

And WPHT won't ever be less right-wing. Just less local. Broadcasting lacks people with any creativity, so all they are capable of doing is what they've always done and what everyone else does.

AMRocks, your solution represents the disease that now is killing radio.

 

[Unregistered]

I am neither a fan of WPHT, nor looking for substantial change in direction. As an disinterested 3rd party, the station appears to make enough money providing a format that performs similarly in most markets. It makes little sense to duplicate a full scale news department. It's not always clear whether local and/or non-political talk will either be better or more successful (take a look at the Lehigh Valley/Reading board message on WEEU)

Further, CBS is one of the few companies maintaining any kind of serious AM radio presence in major markets like Philadelphia, New York, Los Angeles, Boston, San Francisco, Detroit, and Chicago. It is arguably the most represented.

In the case of WPHT, it means there's no incentive to dump it, nor any hope of doing substantially better with any new format. That's especially true with AM, even in the NE corridor. If CBS were to sell it, it would likely become brokered or religious, or both. And I believe that those most dissatisfied with it currently are not hoping for that outcome either. Is there something here I'm not seeing?

 

[PhillyWatch]

What would be so wrong with synergy between KYW & WPHT? It almost seems too simple; boot the blowhard hosts (or keep them, who's listening anyway?) & have WPHT flank KYW as the place to turn to for expanded analysis & the opportunity to chime in on stories that are briefly covered on KYW in their rapid-fire format. Local, national, whatever the hell is most pertinent could be what the hosts at WPHT could be discussing and covering (while featuring reporters from KYW to offer details). Would this even cost CBS more $$$?

I unfortunately believe the root of all the mediocrity is that AM radio is simply irrelevant. Looking at the C. Crane website, I was disappointed to see their internet radios did not offer any AM reception until I thought for a half-second and realized I could simply stream any (or most of the) AM stations on the device in a much better quality. Don't get me wrong, I still have an AM/FM radio bedside and was loving being able to tune in WSB-AM and CZFM a few nights ago. Then again, I could just as easily stream them.

Any AM radio station should be promoting their online stream and/or mobile app just as often as their call letters, numbers, or branding to stay relevant.

Or they can cheerlead the triumphant return of Rushbo to their airwaves.

Whatever.

 

[FredLeonard]

PhillyWatch: It sounds like you are suggesting that WPHT become the equivalent of Newsradio 880 and KYW function as Philly's 1010 WINS. Setting aside the issue of reduced competition (which is what would be so wrong), this does work in New York. It worked for a time in LA. It did not work in Chicago. And, once upon a time, it did not work in Philly.

It works in New York because there is more potential audience. Because coverage areas of the two stations are distinct enough to allow one to target the 'burbs and one to target the city. And because the two developed distinct styles and identities. And, most important, because they started doing this almost a half century ago when AM radio was still relevant.

 

[Bob Eubanks]

Even the Daily News operates with a newsroom separate of and independent from the Inquirer. They don't just serve as a vehicle for "cross promotion." They offer a choice.
The right keeps saying competition is good but apparently cost cutting and cross promotion are better - for the company, if not the public.
WPHT already has out-sourced news. Going from one out-sourced provider to another doesn't seem to be adding or changing much.

It's a false, straw-man argument to make it about "right" or "left." CBS is accused of being liberal when it comes to some business decisions and content--see CBS News--and on the right when it comes to something like 1210. Right...left....irrelevant. People whose ability to pay the bills depends on this kind of stuff look at the options, and if there were a viable way to be more profitable by adding their own news, why would they turn it down? But there isn't. Sometimes that's just the way it is.

Even the newspaper analogy is partially bogus, since while there are two print titles, the digital realm recently abandoned the distinction of two separate sites. The content intermingles.

Times was when WCAU offered vigorous competition in local news to KYW. So did WIP for that matter. WWDB not so much. No more. No competition and KYW has gotten fat and lazy. They don't cover local news any more - that is unless you consider doing man on the street interviews at the Melrose Diner or reading wire copy over a cell phone from where something happened yesterday is "coverage."

WIP has been sports for, what, 25 years now? Yes, I remember listening to WIP and those long newscasts every morning with Ken Garland and company. But you know what else didn't exist back then? Four local TV stations running newscasts for multiple hours. Ubiquitous Internet access. Smartphones. More choices for news exist. The competition has simply evolved with the times.

But it's not going to happen. Forget it, Julius. WPHT won't ever be any better. Neither will KYW. They will keep cutting costs and audiences and ad revenues will continue to decline.

Not all businesses can find success by spending more. Budgets are a bear...and competition from all sides means the pie slices get smaller. There's a point at which you have to deal with the reality as it is, not as it was decades ago.

WPHT and KYW are like SEPTA. Service is bad, so people stop riding. Revenue goes down, so they make cuts and service gets worse. More people stop riding. So more cuts and even worse service. This is the typical end-cycle in lots of industries.

Except, of course, SEPTA's ridership is up. For multiple years now. New train cars. New busses. Maintenance projects ramping up now that there's actually funding for them thanks to the transportation bill. Once more, a false analogy contradicted by facts.

And WPHT won't ever be less right-wing. Just less local. Broadcasting lacks people with any creativity, so all they are capable of doing is what they've always done and what everyone else does.

However, you appear to be suggesting that stations should be doing what they did decades ago. That would seem to fall under the heading of doing what they've done before.

 

[Krazyjoe]

They had an actual news department and followed the lead of WCAU-AM and WWDB-FM and be a full service general interest talk station that's not all conservative talk, all the time? WPHT should not let KYW restrict them in any way. It would be good to have a 3rd option for radio news in this town, (KYW and WHYY being the 2 that cover local news)

All WPHT needs is to bring back Glenn Beck, and move Sean back to 3:00. They were the best station in town back in '04 and until about 2010 when they foolishly let Glenn and Sean go. Ever since, it's been subpar.

 

[Jul]

All WPHT needs is to bring back Glenn Beck, and move Sean back to 3:00. They were the best station in town back in '04 and until about 2010 when they foolishly let Glenn and Sean go. Ever since, it's been subpar.

I think the station's has been downhill since they made the first wave of changes back in 2011. Does anyone think that the format on 1210 WPHT-AM can be saved or is it too little, too late?

 

[FredLeonard]

BobEubanks: The fact that you would take the screen name of a "puker," and the worst game show host of all time (hosting the worst game show ever) pretty much says it all.

Who says CBS News is "liberal." Right-wingers to the hide the fact that CBS has and has always had a corporate right-wing bias.

However, content may be "mixed" on Philly.com, the Inquirer and the Daily News have separate newsrooms in distinct competition with each other.

Whatever excuses you want to make - and competition seems to be the industry's favorite excuse - competition no longer exists in radio news. There is less competition today, not more. It doesn't matter how news is distributed. What matter is news gathering is almost non-existent.

SEPTA ridership is up? You must have read "How To Lie With Statistics." Or you're just making stuff up - which right-wingers typically do. SEPTA's own report says it's currently flat. Yes, new trains and new buses may have stemmed the decline for now but ridership is far below what it was years ago - before schedules were curtailed and routes were cut.

The problem is not competition. The problem is terrestrial radio has failed to compete. And nobody competes successfully by doing less.

Just because you repeat the same old, same old industry line doesn't mean you know what you're talking about, "Bob." Now back to "What will your husband say is the strangest place you two ever made whoopee?"

 

[davideduardo]

BobEubanks: The fact that you would take the screen name of a "puker," and the worst game show host of all time (hosting the worst game show ever) pretty much says it all.

You are forgetting that Eubanks started in radio in Oxnard at KACY in 1956 and moved on to the very important Top 40 station, KRLA, where he spent about a decade on the air. He also was the promoter for the first Beatles tour stop in LA, and presented many others like the Rolling Stones.

While most people will think of him for The Newlywed Game due to its enormous success, he began as a radio person and throughout his career always took the time to do a little radio... such as guest hosting AT40 several times.

 

[BOZ Profit]

Fred, I'm not going to wait for BobEubanks to report your post.. I am going to use this post as an example.

BobEubanks: The fact that you would take the screen name of a "puker," and the worst game show host of all time (hosting the worst game show ever) pretty much says it all.

This is an ad hominem attack. First, you do not know BobEubanks personally, so no... it cannot "pretty much say it all". Avoid writing things like this so your post will not be reported.

Who says CBS News is "liberal." Right-wingers to the hide the fact that CBS has and has always had a corporate right-wing bias.

This is one of those posts that can easily be swapped with "left-wingers" and "left-wing bias". This is nothing but a nonsensical accusation. There are no "facts" to back up the opinion. The same goes for members posting with the opinion in the other direction. This is an opinion, not a fact. There is no way you can prove it otherwise.

You must have read "How To Lie With Statistics." Or you're just making stuff up - which right-wingers typically do.

More ad hominem attacks: "You must have read..." ... "you're just making stuff up..." ... "right wingers typically do...". These add nothing to your argument. They actually take away any credibility you have. The agenda is clear: it is to incite an argument, not to discuss a topic or opinions.

Just because you repeat the same old, same old industry line doesn't mean you know what you're talking about, "Bob."

Again, this is an ad hominem and it's one of those posts where the shoe can be put on the other foot.

This is a post that is abusive and Fred, you are purposely being offensive. When choosing to be personal with phrases or sentences including "You... this or that" in a negative way, you are attacking, flaming and/or being insulting.

If you are going to express your dissatisfaction with a group of people, and you are going to generalize about them, remember that people have the right to lump you in a general stereotype as well. Maybe if people remember they do not like being stereotyped, they will stop stereotyping themselves. Or.. maybe not...

 

[Bob Eubanks]

SEPTA ridership is up? You must have read "How To Lie With Statistics." Or you're just making stuff up - which right-wingers typically do. SEPTA's own report says it's currently flat. Yes, new trains and new buses may have stemmed the decline for now but ridership is far below what it was years ago - before schedules were curtailed and routes were cut.

I did not read that undoubtedly thrilling recommendation. But I did read this. It's one example but there are others.
Edit: I messed up trying to do the link formatting on my iPad. My mistake. Here is the link: http://articles.philly.com/2014-10-...ilverliner-v-cars-12-fewer-seats-septa-trains

The problem is not competition. The problem is terrestrial radio has failed to compete. And nobody competes successfully by doing less.

It seems the two sentences leading off that paragraph are in contradiction. If we accept the notion, for the sake of discussion, that terrestrial radio has failed to compete, then who has it failed to compete with, if not other sources offering similar content? And isn't that, by definition, competition?

It is easy to be critical and say what folks have done wrong. And heck sometimes it's fun.

But I'm curious--what's the solution you recommend? How would, let's say WPHT, find success comparable to its "golden days," however you want to define that. With all of the technology and innovations that have come along since then, with the changes in demographic trends, with the generational changes in audience tastes, what is the formula that would supply enough cash flow to pay the number of bodies that would be required to sustain the effort in the long term? What would bring in enough listeners for a long enough period of time that advertisers would be willing to pony up that amount of money? It's not intended as a smart aleck question. I'd like to hear how, in 2015, a business model could be built that would closely replicate that of 1965, 75, 85 or 95.

 

[AMRocks]

Even the Daily News operates with a newsroom separate of and independent from the Inquirer. They don't just serve as a vehicle for "cross promotion." They offer a choice.
The right keeps saying competition is good but apparently cost cutting and cross promotion are better - for the company, if not the public.
WPHT already has out-sourced news. Going from one out-sourced provider to another doesn't seem to be adding or changing much.

Times was when WCAU offered vigorous competition in local news to KYW. So did WIP for that matter. WWDB not so much. No more. No competition and KYW has gotten fat and lazy. They don't cover local news any more - that is unless you consider doing man on the street interviews at the Melrose Diner or reading wire copy over a cell phone from where something happened yesterday is "coverage."

But it's not going to happen. Forget it, Julius. WPHT won't ever be any better. Neither will KYW. They will keep cutting costs and audiences and ad revenues will continue to decline. WPHT and KYW are like SEPTA. Service is bad, so people stop riding. Revenue goes down, so they make cuts and service gets worse. More people stop riding. So more cuts and even worse service. This is the typical end-cycle in lots of industries.

And WPHT won't ever be less right-wing. Just less local. Broadcasting lacks people with any creativity, so all they are capable of doing is what they've always done and what everyone else does.

AMRocks, your solution represents the disease that now is killing radio.

I totally disagree. You're going under the assumption that the two stations should compete. Why? 1210 is TALK and 1060 is NEWS. They are owned by the same company. Why would CBS make the two compete? That would be crazy. People can enjoy both.

I can't disagree that both stations haven't gotten sloppy, though. I totally agree with you there. That's not my point. IF 1060 has the best news and IF 1210 had the best talk, they could work together to help each other.

The ONLY way either (or both) stations will get better is if someone (another company) comes into the market and competes with them. It's no different than a music station. They also only get better when someone changes format and competes with them.

 

[TheBigA]

The problem is not competition. The problem is terrestrial radio has failed to compete. And nobody competes successfully by doing less.

"Failed to compete?" First of all, that's not true. But truthfully, the audience doesn't care about competition. They care about what they like and what they want. If they get what they want cheaply, then it doesn't matter if they got it because of competition, or because of a monopoly. They like monopolies when they get what they want. When they don't, they complain.

The ONLY way either (or both) stations will get better is if someone (another company) comes into the market and competes with them.

Let me ask you a simple question: Did having IQ in Philly make WPHT better? And was IQ better than WPHT? In other words, when there WAS competition in Philly, was either station improved because of it? I say the answers are No, no, and no.

 

[Bob Eubanks]

Valid point, and my tastes agree on the "no" front. But there is a competitor, and has been, on 990, if the category is "talk radio." Being an underdog doesn't mean you're not there.