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kabc switches lineup again
- Thread starter hotpatrick2004
- Start date
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Thomps2525
Guest
In his syndicated radio column today, Richard Wagoner expresses skepticism that new 9-to-noon host Christina Perez will help KABC's ratings. She has hosted the tv shows Cristina's Court, La Corte De Familia and Justice For All, which Wagoner calls "cheap schlock trying to live on the reputation of the old People's Court and hardly the basis for a radio station trying to make a comeback." He also says that KABC should get rid of the low-rated Mark Levin, then move Peter Tilden to the 6-to-9 pm slot and let him "run wild." Wagoner notes that the weekend infomercials "bring in money but keep ratings down." His conclusion about the station's recent changes: KABC has the potential to do something. This is not the way." Right on, Richard!
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K.M. Richards
Guest
Has he looked at the deterioration of 790's signal as the market grew outward and the sources of interference increased?
Wow kabc has just commited suicide. Judge christina BORING!!! Dr drew psycho mike not much better. Should have stuck with suits n elder. Jillian n john r fine. Whom ever made these decisions really screwed up and should be terminated!!!
Whom ever buys any spots n these two shows just doesnt want customers. Loveline should have been retired when adam left.
Whom ever buys any spots n these two shows just doesnt want customers. Loveline should have been retired when adam left.
You can't kill something that's already dead.
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K.M. Richards
Guest
Thanks for the update, Captain Obvious.
Cumulus has a problem here, and they are showing the desperation they should be. The problem is (as has been stated in this thread and practically every thread on KABC and the Talk format in general in L.A.) 790 never had a signal that covered more than the metropolitan market area relatively static-free. That signal, plus a lack of real competition for the first couple of decades of the format, meant they were doing just fine. KFI took a lot of wind out of their sails, though ... not unexpected when a 50,000 non-directional blowtorch goes head to head in the "serious" division of the Talk genre. And those 5,000 watts coming from La Cienega Blvd. no longer cover the entire rated market and what area it does cover is now subjected to levels of electrical interference the engineers back in the 1960s could not have imagined ever having to deal with.
So ... poor little KABC has watched helplessly as their listeners slowly defected to 640. Let's face facts: The format has been slowly watered down every time a new lineup was announced for the past 15 years. Larry Elder, as good a talker as I consider him to be, was out of place there.
When you can't win the Talk battle, you do one of three things: (1) Switch to brokered ethnic or religious programming; (2) look for a buyer and get the hell out; or (3) run a version of Talk which is easy to produce and relatively inoffensive, therefore advertiser-friendly. #1 isn't the Dickeys' style, #2 may well be happening behind the scenes, and #3 is what we get at least for the interim.
I feel sorriest for Marko Radlovic, Cumulus' Sales Manager for the L.A. stations, who was still an up-and-coming account executive in the late 1980s (we both worked at KTMS and Y97 in Santa Barbara at the same time) and now has to try to maximize sales for this latest version of KABC. He better learn how to push a rope uphill pretty damned quickly.
A side thought: If Cumulus does sell KABC, that leaves them running a solo FM in the market (KLOS). That will make them the second major market player in the market with only one station rather than a cluster, Bonneville being the other. I wonder what is more important to them: Being in Market #2, even if only with one station ... or getting out before the economies of scale do them in. For all I know, the economies are already causing them problems.
I don't see them as sellers.
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K.M. Richards
Guest
The Dickeys usually aren't, but in smaller markets where they could not get a toehold, they've done trades and sales to create new or larger clusters. You only need to go up 101 a couple of hours to see where they did it fairly recently: They essentially got out of the Santa Barbara market a couple of years ago by moving KRRF/106.3 from Goleta to Oak View in Ventura County, trading KRUZ/97.5 to EMF for KXPC/103.7 in Lebanon (Eugene) OR (where it became a replacement for KNRQ/97.9, which moved to the Portland market and then -- gasp -- sold ... to EMF), and repositioning KVYB/103.3 as a Ventura County station.
Granted, those are much, much smaller markets than L.A. but if KABC were to be spun off and KLOS left on its own, Los Angeles would be one of only five markets (Washington DC, Kokomo IN, Monroe MI and Houston TX are the others) where Cumulus would own a standalone station. I'm thinking that at some point Bonneville may buy KLOS from Cumulus, or vice versa. Maybe not tomorrow, but eventually.
If they did it, Lew would have a lotta 'splainin' to do. He's been telling investors for the last few years that he wants to be a major market owner. Selling a station in LA, albeit a dog, would send a bad message, unless it was part of a trade that got them another FM. And I don't see Bonneville selling either.
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K.M. Richards
Guest
I'm not saying it's likely in the near future, but if you and I and RD are all still here in 2020, let's look up this thread again.
But Cumulus is no stranger to rimshots.
In DC they have WMAL FM from somewhat suburban Woodbridge as well as WMAL and WRQX.
It looks like a few of the stand-alones came with companies they acquired, such as Susquehanna in the case of KRBE. Those deals look somewhat sour when they can't get additional stations and selling stand-alones would represent a big paper loss.
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K.M. Richards
Guest
I think I may have gotten my hands on an incomplete list of Cumulus properties. Thanks for the correction.
Cumulus had rimshots east of Houston...but thats the wrong side for signals...one, 103.7, they paid $32 million for 10 years ago..(just for the license!)..then another 5-6million for the 2000 foot tower and equipment...and it went through several formats that never worked...(Cumulus kept changing things so many times, no wonder!)...It was placed in the trust along with 97.5 (a Beaumont upgrade/move) and both were sold for $5 mill each....real good ROI there
(97.5 didn't cost as much since they already owned it from the Beaumont, TX market but still a 2000 ft tower and gear isn't cheap...and both sites were flooded by Hurricane Ike). Cumulus was no where near the cap as to signals in Houston...but noone is selling anything decent...they got KRBE and it has always been a good performer.
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Thomps2525
Guest
Larry Elder is alive and well. He has launched an Internet-only talk show, streaming live from 3 to 6 pm (of course!) Monday through Friday at http://www.larryelder.com/ and anyone who pays for a premium "Elderado" subscription will get a DVD of Elder's Michael & Me documentary plus access to commercial-free podcasts. I'm anxious to see if Elder's program will attract more listeners than the program of Jillian Barberie and John Phillips over at that AM radio station.
I happened to look at another David Eduardo post on another thread, showing us the top stations in the US in 1974. At that time, KABC was the nation's #12 station, and the highest ranking Los Angeles station. Add two zeros to the numbers after the city of license for their cume totals...
1. WABC New York 2523
2. WOR New York 2053
3. WLS Chicago 1856
4. WGN Chicago 1644
5. WCBS New York 1318
6. WJR Detroit 1284
7. WRFM-FM New York 1257
8. WBLS-FM New York 1185
9. KDKA Pittsburgh 1157
10. WMAQ Chicago 1098
11. WCCO Minneapolis 1036
12. KABC Los Angeles 1005
This is based on cume, not the regular Arbitron ratings. But it is amazing that LA has no stations in the top 10. KABC is #12, the only LA station with over a million listeners tuning each week. KBIG is #19 (as a Beautiful music station), KNX is #38, KHJ is #40 (as a Top 40 station). And KFI (as an MOR station - Sinatra, Carpenters, Dionne Warwick) doesn't make this list till #55.
Numerous stations in Chicago are ahead of the highest ranking LA station. Even one station from Detroit, Pittsburgh and Minneapolis get bigger cumes than the highest ranking LA station.
So it truly is amazing that KABC's 5000 watt signal could give it such excellent ratings in the 1970s, while today that same signal doesn't cover the market, and much of it falls on ears more accustomed to Spanish, Korean, Urdu or Farsi, than English.
I still think a station that plays the pop and rhythmic hits of the 60s and 70s would work. Even if English is your second language, you were listening to The Supremes, The Beatles, and Donna Summer in your youth. Is this audience 55+? Yeah, but isn't most of the audience for Conservative Talk Radio 55+? Very few AM stations make their money from the 25-54 demo with a "You kids get off my lawn!" line up of Limbaugh, Savage and Beck. If you're on AM, that's how you gotta sell your product.
1. WABC New York 2523
2. WOR New York 2053
3. WLS Chicago 1856
4. WGN Chicago 1644
5. WCBS New York 1318
6. WJR Detroit 1284
7. WRFM-FM New York 1257
8. WBLS-FM New York 1185
9. KDKA Pittsburgh 1157
10. WMAQ Chicago 1098
11. WCCO Minneapolis 1036
12. KABC Los Angeles 1005
This is based on cume, not the regular Arbitron ratings. But it is amazing that LA has no stations in the top 10. KABC is #12, the only LA station with over a million listeners tuning each week. KBIG is #19 (as a Beautiful music station), KNX is #38, KHJ is #40 (as a Top 40 station). And KFI (as an MOR station - Sinatra, Carpenters, Dionne Warwick) doesn't make this list till #55.
Numerous stations in Chicago are ahead of the highest ranking LA station. Even one station from Detroit, Pittsburgh and Minneapolis get bigger cumes than the highest ranking LA station.
So it truly is amazing that KABC's 5000 watt signal could give it such excellent ratings in the 1970s, while today that same signal doesn't cover the market, and much of it falls on ears more accustomed to Spanish, Korean, Urdu or Farsi, than English.
I still think a station that plays the pop and rhythmic hits of the 60s and 70s would work. Even if English is your second language, you were listening to The Supremes, The Beatles, and Donna Summer in your youth. Is this audience 55+? Yeah, but isn't most of the audience for Conservative Talk Radio 55+? Very few AM stations make their money from the 25-54 demo with a "You kids get off my lawn!" line up of Limbaugh, Savage and Beck. If you're on AM, that's how you gotta sell your product.
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Maybe not so amazing. If WABC's signal in the 1970s had been what it is today (that's relative to the other signals as they were in the '70s) I doubt the station would have even made the list.
Today due to deteriorating ground wave systems, greater building density, interference of all kinds -- old and new -- and poorer AM receivers, I can drive for half a mile sometimes and hear nothing by hash and electrical noise on 770. For some reason that frequency seem especially prone to some forms of electronic jamming.
I live 50 miles from Manhattan and WABCs signal was rock solid in the '70s.
The areas that KABC did not cover in the 70s did not matter as much. The population of OC was half what it is now, and mostly in the northern area or coastal. The San Fernando Valley was nowhere nearly as heavily populated, nor was the Santa Clarita area, the Lancaster / Palmdale area and the eastern part of the San Gabriel Valley. Now, most of the talk audience lives exclusively in those areas.
The increase in noise levels has reduced the average station's usable coverage by at least 25% and sometimes more. Add in today's crummy AM radios and KABC has no chance.
Of course, the area they do cover is much more ethnic and immigrant than the market as a whole. The interest in hearing white lifestyle talk is going to be limited.
KFI is frequently in the top 10 in 25-54, and the other stations that sell based on ratings use the 25-54 numbers as a base. The advantage of doing a religious or ethnic format is that those do not require ratings to sell. And sports, which occupies a whole handful of our better AM signals, sells based on many factors that are not ratings related.
60's and 70's rhythmic hits... the "low rider oldies" of KRLA... became unsalable two decades ago. General market music radio is nearly always going to be ratings driven in markets the size of LA.
And if you look at the ethnic groups inside the KABC signal, you find that few would be users of an English pop music driven format.
Hispanics are more likely to look to a Spanish language oldies format like KRCD. Most came from rural areas of Mexico and Central America, and did not listen to English language pop in their youth before coming here as young adults. That applies in even greater percentages to Asians and Persians and other groups living under the KABC signal. Only the born-here or "arrived as a child" residents might have been exposed to KHJ and KIIS and have a taste for US pop music, but that is the minority among 45+ ethnic group members. And, with much of the African American population of nearly 800,000 living in the KABC area, a "white pop" format is not going to have impact. Supremes: maybe. Beatles: Not.
Gregg, a couple of things to consider, amplifying on what David wrote above:
In the early-mid 70s, the New York metro population was about 17 million. LA's was about 8 million, or a little less than half. So there was simply more cume available for the New York stations. They could split it and still come up with huge cume figures.
Chicago was close to L.A. in population and Detroit, Pittsburgh and Minneapolis were smaller, but those were far less fragmented markets, with long-standing dominant stations in the format. There really never has been an L.A. equivalent to WJR, KDKA or WCCO. Even 41 years ago, Los Angeles was extremely competitive, with a chunk of stations cannibalizing each other. The best any L.A. station was going to do in Arbitron 12+ share was an 8 or so. WGN in Chicago was getting 15s. So was WJR in Detroit. KDKA, Pittsburgh was getting 25s and WCCO, Minneapolis was doing 30 shares (yes, 30 shares).
And it's not really amazing that KABC's signal could get #1 ratings in 1974 but not today. 80% of the population growth in the L.A. metro area has been outside the city of Los Angeles, in areas where the signal wasn't phenomenal even in 1974. And although you say "that same signal today ", it's not. In the intervening 41 years, KABC paved over the ground around the towers, meaning the soil can't get wet, which increases ground conductivity. To my knowledge, there has been no maintenance of the radials underground, so there's 41 years of rot. They don't work as well now. Electronic interference has increased exponentially, mostly from devices that didn't even exist in 1974.
As for the changes in the serviceable signal area of KABC today, non-Hispanic whites made up 70% of the population of Los Angeles County 40 years ago. It's 27% today. Immgrants from all countries as a percent of Los Angeles County's population was about 10-15% in the early-mid 70s. It's 35% now. 77% of all immigrants living in Los Angeles County have arrived since 1980. These are not people who buy a house in Orange County and commute in. They gravitate toward the center of the city. And since there's not been a lot of new housing built in the core of the city, the immigrants have largely replaced former residents who were English-speakers. And all that has happened where the footprint of KABC's signal is the strongest.
A bunch can change in 41 years. Los Angeles, as usual, is change defined, times your zip code.
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Thomps2525
Guest
In one of my many notebooks in which I wrote down all kinds of radio information from various trade publications, I found a list of the 25 most-listened-to stations in March of 1977. In order, they were WABC, WOR, WGN, WCBS, WLS, WINS, WBLS, WRFM, WJR, WCCO, WHN (which was country then), WMAQ, WPLJ, KDKA, KMOX, WBZ, WBBM, KYW, KABC, WCBS-FM, WBAP, KBIG, WXLO, WMCA and WWSH. Several New York and Chicago stations and only two from Los Angeles. In three years, KABC had slipped from 12th to 19th nationally but was still number one in Los Angeles. Way to go, Ken & Bob and Michael!
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