The old KRTH

[K.M. Richards]

We didn't have any DJ's in 1986 aside from Dave Hull in mornings, but if you say that is what he said I have no problem with that? I was pretty sure the 1st 10 years meant 54 to 64 with a possible 1965 song thrown in.

You also had Steve Scott and Brian Beirne back then among others

No, not true I will repeat what I said, on AM 930 Dave Hull was the only live voice & Brother John voicers ran the other 20 hours. I seem to remember Al Connors did some limited on air work. In 88 or 89 they dropped the all Brother John sound

I think it is obvious that oldies76 was referring to KRTH-FM, based on the Brian Beirne reference.

 

[Thomps2525]

KHJ. Legendary call letters since 1922. Charles Kierulff. Don Lee. Steve Allen. Wonderful KHJ. Robert W Morgan. The Real Don Steele. Boss Radio. We all grew up to be cowboys. The Boss is back. Car radio. Yeah, in 1986 the FM was doing much better than the AM but what was the point of KHJ changing call letters to KRTH-AM, especially considering that the station would be known as simply "AM 930" except for the top-of-the-hour ID?

 

[oldies76]

No idea where I'd even start to look for something that relatively obscure, published 50 years ago, and apparently not referenced in the past 30.

If we even knew who "Doug Schmidt" is (I certainly don't), much less where he is, or even if he is still alive ...

He's still posting on M.I.A. Lost Hits, he's obviously still alive KM. The charts do exist, but unfortunately they are hard to find.

 

[michael hagerty]

Steve:

It was in preparation for the sale of the stations. RKO knew they'd have to divest, and expected a new buyer of KHJ-TV to find value in those call letters. There was none left in radio.

Of course, a little over a year later, Disney bought Channel 9 and changed the calls to KCAL.

Oops.

 

[K.M. Richards]

He's still posting on M.I.A. Lost Hits, he's obviously still alive KM. The charts do exist, but unfortunately they are hard to find.

You would know more about that discussion site than I, so thanks for the info.

I suspect there is a lot of station-related material out there, sitting in bankers boxes (or the equivalent) in various someone's basements. So I'd expand that "hard to find" to a level of "nearly impossible".

Although of extremely limited use in research because of their age, they would still be worth seeing from a historical perspective.

 

[oldies76]

He did send me a photo of one of the charts from back then, so here is a partial listing of the top 15 of the 30.

-----------

Los Angeles Hit Line January 26, 1957

LW TW

4 1 Too Much - Elvis Presley
1 2 Young Love - Tab Hunter
2 3 Banana Boat Song - Harry Belafonte
6 4 Blue Monday / What's the Reason - Fats Domino
3 5 Singing the Blues - Guy Mitchell
7 6 Banana Boat Song - Tarriers
13 7 Don't Forbid Me / Anastasia - Pat Boone
5 8 Green Door -Jim Lowe
10 9 Jamaica Farewell - Harry Belafonte
8 10 Jim Dandy - La Verne Baker
9 11 Love Me Tender - Elvis Presley
-- 12 Marianne - Terry Gilkyson
11 13 Love is Strange - Mickey and Sylvia
29 14 Cinco Robles - Russel Arms
12 15 Young Love - Sonny James

 

[Thomps2525]

Many songs did better in Los Angeles than they did nationally. One good example is the Doors' first single, Break On Through, which reached #21 on the KHJ Boss 30 and #30 on the KFWB Fabulous Forty but spent only a single week on the Bill;board Bubbling Under chart---at #126.

It's interesting to compare that January 1957 chart with the corresponding Billboard Top 100. Singing The Blues was in its tenth week at number one nationally but dropped from #3 to #5 in Los Angeles. Too Much climbed from #4 to number one in Los Angeles on the same week in which it debuted at #30 nationally. Young Love fell from the top spot locally but nationally jumped from #11 to #3 and wouldn't reach number one for another week. Russell Arms, one of the vocalists on Your Hit Parade, rose from #29 to #14 with Cinco Robles but nationally the song was at #46 and would eventually peak at #22.

More charts! More photos! Somebody must have some more!

 

[MadMan]

KHJ. Legendary call letters since 1922. Charles Kierulff. Don Lee. Steve Allen. Wonderful KHJ. Robert W Morgan. The Real Don Steele. Boss Radio. We all grew up to be cowboys. The Boss is back. Car radio. Yeah, in 1986 the FM was doing much better than the AM but what was the point of KHJ changing call letters to KRTH-AM, especially considering that the station would be known as simply "AM 930" except for the top-of-the-hour ID?

Possibly to sell ad's as a combo, much like KIIS FM & AM. Also RKO had great hope for the Smokin' Oldies format and KHJ was a pretty tainted Call sign by 1986. I always wondered why KODJ didn't use a varation of those letters and go Boss Radio at some point?

 

[oldies76]

Many songs did better in Los Angeles than they did nationally. One good example is the Doors' first single, Break On Through, which reached #21 on the KHJ Boss 30 and #30 on the KFWB Fabulous Forty but spent only a single week on the Bill;board Bubbling Under chart---at #126.

It's interesting to compare that January 1957 chart with the corresponding Billboard Top 100. Singing The Blues was in its tenth week at number one nationally but dropped from #3 to #5 in Los Angeles. Too Much climbed from #4 to number one in Los Angeles on the same week in which it debuted at #30 nationally. Young Love fell from the top spot locally but nationally jumped from #11 to #3 and wouldn't reach number one for another week. Russell Arms, one of the vocalists on Your Hit Parade, rose from #29 to #14 with Cinco Robles but nationally the song was at #46 and would eventually peak at #22.

More charts! More photos! Somebody must have some more!

I've got the full chart, but how do I attach it here? It won't let me paste it, either here or to your PM.

Doug did say on the Lost Hits thread, that KRTH (Bob Hamilton) used the Hit Lines from 1955 through the end of 1957 of their specials, so supposedly there are three years worth of weeklies out there, buried in basements, just like KM mentioned. I can't imagine all the older radio station treasures and memorabilia out there, if people would bother to "clean out their junk"!

 

[Thomps2525]

The KODJ call letters were chosen because "OD" sounded like "Oldies" and the "J" was a tribute to KHJ. I, too, hoped that KODJ would take the historic call letters and become the new 93/KHJ on FM. KODJ (later KCBS-FM) had five former KHJ DJs: Charlie Tuna, M.G. Kelly, Humble Harve, Danny Martinez and The Real Don Steele. Did no one at KODJ even consider changing calls to KHJ-FM?

 

[MadMan]

Many songs did better in Los Angeles than they did nationally. One good example is the Doors' first single, Break On Through, which reached #21 on the KHJ Boss 30 and #30 on the KFWB Fabulous Forty but spent only a single week on the Bill;board Bubbling Under chart---at #126.

It's interesting to compare that January 1957 chart with the corresponding Billboard Top 100. Singing The Blues was in its tenth week at number one nationally but dropped from #3 to #5 in Los Angeles. Too Much climbed from #4 to number one in Los Angeles on the same week in which it debuted at #30 nationally. Young Love fell from the top spot locally but nationally jumped from #11 to #3 and wouldn't reach number one for another week. Russell Arms, one of the vocalists on Your Hit Parade, rose from #29 to #14 with Cinco Robles but nationally the song was at #46 and would eventually peak at #22.

More charts! More photos! Somebody must have some more!

Shango did quite well on KHJ, still remember Steele with this one!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2ZXco32IRU

 

[oldies76]

Many songs did better in Los Angeles than they did nationally. One good example is the Doors' first single, Break On Through, which reached #21 on the KHJ Boss 30

If you looked at that #1 list I've linked earlier, you'll see that many songs did much better in L.A. than nationally. "Miserlou" is a good example in 1963. Also, the "Night Theme" by Mark II. Even a song like "Shaddap You Face" hitting #53 nationally, #1 in L.A.

On the other hand, "I Love Rock and Roll" did not hit #1 on KRTH in '82, but "That Girl" did.
I would imagine that Joan Jett fared better on other local charts like KIIS-FM or XTRA.

 

[Thomps2525]

Miserlou was a surf instrumental recorded in 1958 by Dick Dale & the Del-Tones. It was ahead of its time and did not chart. In fall of 1962, when surfing songs were starting to become popular, Miserlou was re-released and went to number one on both the KFWB Fabulous Forty and the KRLA Tune-Dex but it failed to chart nationally. Here is the band pretending to play the song in the movie A Swingin' Affair:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIU0RMV_II8

 

[K.M. Richards]

Did no one at KODJ even consider changing calls to KHJ-FM?

They legally couldn't. At that point in time, FM 93.1 would have to have been under common ownership with TV 9 for the calls to be also assigned to the FM. Since RKO still owned KHJ-TV at that point (barely) and not CBS (that came two ownership changes later), what you ask could not have even for a second been considered.

KHJ (AM) became KRTH 2/1/86.
KNX-FM became KODJ 3/2/89.
KHJ-TV became KCAL-TV 12/2/89.

I thought the question of three-letter calls had been asked and answered here before. Am I remembering incorrectly?

 

[ChannelFlipper]

They legally couldn't. At that point in time, FM 93.1 would have to have been under common ownership with TV 9 for the calls to be also assigned to the FM. Since RKO still owned KHJ-TV at that point (barely) and not CBS (that came two ownership changes later), what you ask could not have even for a second been considered.

KHJ (AM) became KRTH 2/1/86.
KNX-FM became KODJ 3/2/89.
KHJ-TV became KCAL-TV 12/2/89.

I thought the question of three-letter calls had been asked and answered here before. Am I remembering incorrectly?

KMR,

the nature of a board such as this is that posters come and go, and topics that were "answered before" may be relevant or topical again, especially for someone who is new to the board. A newbie, or even a long-time poster for that matter, is not required to search the reams of posts that have come before in order to pose a topic or ask a question. Therefore, repeat topics can and will come up. Here is some friendly advice, from one poster to another: Deal with it and quit putting down other posters.

 

[MadMan]

They legally couldn't. At that point in time, FM 93.1 would have to have been under common ownership with TV 9 for the calls to be also assigned to the FM. Since RKO still owned KHJ-TV at that point (barely) and not CBS (that came two ownership changes later), what you ask could not have even for a second been considered.

KHJ (AM) became KRTH 2/1/86.
KNX-FM became KODJ 3/2/89.
KHJ-TV became KCAL-TV 12/2/89.

I thought the question of three-letter calls had been asked and answered here before. Am I remembering incorrectly?

You confuse me KMR? Why couldn't Oldies KODJ become 93 KKHJ or KHJ on 12/3/89 possibly using Bill Drake's short lived Satellite Boss Radio Format? You answer these questions like you are all knowing? KKHR, KNX, KODJ, & Arrow 93 all enjoyed little success. Why couldn't 93 KHJ return on FM in 89 on 93.1?

 

[davideduardo]

You confuse me KMR? Why couldn't Oldies KODJ become 93 KKHJ or KHJ on 12/3/89 possibly using Bill Drake's short lived Satellite Boss Radio Format? You answer these questions like you are all knowing? KKHR, KNX, KODJ, & Arrow 93 all enjoyed little success. Why couldn't 93 KHJ return on FM in 89 on 93.1?

"New" 3-letter calls had not been granted for about a half a century in 1989.

Stations that abandoned 3-letter calls could recover them if they were still under the same ownership as they had when the calls were abandoned. New owners of the same frequency could not recover them. Other licensees could not apply for them as the FCC was granting no 3-letter calls.

Existing 3-letter calls can be given to a different facility under the same ownership if the calls are currently active. Example: Clear Channel moved KOY from AM 550 to AM 1230 in Phoenix. And then CBS applied the active WJZ calls it has on TV to an AM and FM in Baltimore that they also own.

So, to become "KHJ" the station would have had to be KKHJ or KHJA to KHJZ to get that 3-letter sequence

 

[LKellerIII]

"New" 3-letter calls had not been granted for about a half a century in 1989.

Stations that abandoned 3-letter calls could recover them if they were still under the same ownership as they had when the calls were abandoned. New owners of the same frequency could not recover them. Other licensees could not apply for them as the FCC was granting no 3-letter calls.

Existing 3-letter calls can be given to a different facility under the same ownership if the calls are currently active. Example: Clear Channel moved KOY from AM 550 to AM 1230 in Phoenix. And then CBS applied the active WJZ calls it has on TV to an AM and FM in Baltimore that they also own.

So, to become "KHJ" the station would have had to be KKHJ or KHJA to KHJZ to get that 3-letter sequence

Another example - in San Francisco, KYA-FM became KLHT for awhile (K-Lite 93), but when they couldn't siphon any ratings away from Light Rock KOIT, they changed formats and went back to KYA-FM.

Also - couldn't "KHJ" have been considered a 'brand' of sorts? I imagine that even if it had been legal by FCC standards, RKO General would not have been pleased about it. Example of this - in the mid 1990s, KBGG in San Francisco was "Big 98.1. It became K-Big 98.1 when Clear Channel sucked up the station in the late 90s which I believe already owned KBIG in Los Angeles.

 

[K.M. Richards]

You confuse me KMR? Why couldn't Oldies KODJ become 93 KKHJ or KHJ on 12/3/89 possibly using Bill Drake's short lived Satellite Boss Radio Format? You answer these questions like you are all knowing? KKHR, KNX, KODJ, & Arrow 93 all enjoyed little success. Why couldn't 93 KHJ return on FM in 89 on 93.1?

Let me try again.

The KHJ call letters had continued to be used on RKO-owned channel 9 after they gave them up on AM 930 concurrent with the sale to Beasley in 1986.

When Disney-Fidelity took over channel 9 they changed the call sign to KCAL-TV. At that point, RKO went out of business, as KHJ-TV was the last of their broadcast properties. RKO, as David points out, was the last holder of the KHJ calls and only they could reclaim them. Further, the calls would have to have been reclaimed by RKO on AM 930 ... which was not possible since the ownership changed simultaneously.

KODJ was (and still is, as KCBS-FM) owned by CBS. KODJ was on FM (and therefore was not AM 930), and not owned by RKO, therefore ineligible on both counts to take the calls KHJ-FM.

The recovery of the KHJ calls by Liberman in 2000 required special FCC action, and it still had to be AM 930 that got them.

In this case, I am "all-knowing" because I had researched the question back in 2000 when the Liberman request was made.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Also - couldn't "KHJ" have been considered a 'brand' of sorts? I imagine that even if it had been legal by FCC standards, RKO General would not have been pleased about it.

Llew, RKO no longer existed after it sold KHJ-TV to Disney-Fidelity in 1989. Whatever lawyers were remaining on the clock to finish winding down their corporate affairs likely weren't going to start a lawsuit over the KHJ "brand" when they knew the opposing side could use the argument of those being FCC-assigned call letters going back to before their prominence.