Not true worship

[rbrucecarter5]

Yes, it was. Which was why I posted "Below is the most complete summary of the 'broadest - and simplest - set of Christian tenets as possible.'", though I neglected to mention it was the Nicene. What's much, much more important is rbrucecarter5's response, if he makes one, indicating what things that are in the Nicene Creed are "wrong" and what was left out. He did, after all, claim that he was promoting, "the 'broadest - and simplest - set of Christian tenets as possible." If that's the case, surely he can provide some reason why that creed, or the simpler Apostle's Creed, fails to meet his definition.

I took some time off from this post, only to find out somebody was trying to hack my password. REPREHENSIBLE. If they succeed, beware of posts supposedly from me.

Yes, I am between stations. I have been for some time. Sorry if the posts sounded like present tense. I'll be back, better than ever, even if it is only webcast.

Apostle's / Nicene creed - do fine if you are into that sort of thing until I get to 'holy catholic church". No. I don't believe in the Catholic church. Its fine for its members, but it isn't necessary for salvation. Period. So I don't recite the creed or belong to a church that does. I bow to Jesus Christ, not some old man in Rome and all that extra biblical stuff. Dead pieces of saints (relics) - really? BURY dead things! Sheesh! Prayers to Mary? She is DEAD. Mary also created a virgin? No! Not in the Bible. Transubstantiation? If true - it is cannibalism! Not even ISIS practices cannibalism. So - flame away. But when I get back on the air, I'm not broadcasting that Catholic stuff. It is NONSENSE to me, it clouds the simple issue of Christ's death on the cross for our sins, and would probably offend every single listener I have - or will have. Catholics want to promote that stuff, they can buy stations for their members to listen to. Best case scenario for me is I wouldn't begin to know how to promote doctrines that are weird and completely foreign to me. Worst case, I'd turn off people to the Christian faith and I am not willing to do that. Believe what you want, broadcast what you want. I will do the same. Our listener base won't intersect, so I won't be taking your ratings and vice versa. But I bet a lot of Catholic kids will tune in because my programming will be a heck of a lot more fun than Catholic radio I have heard. They are very welcome to listen and have their faith in Christ increased.

 

[Silkie]

But everything in the creeds is fact, even if you substitute the term "ekklesia kath holos," or Church throughout all the world for the word "Catholic". I believe it may translate out from the Acts of the Apostles.

More simply put: Episcopalians will be in heaven. Probably some Pentecostals, Lutherans and Methodists too. The Southern Baptists would never believe the Northern Baptists will be there. There will be Jewish people, and Lawd Ha' Merceh! A Roman Catholic walking around up there there too, and anyone else who makes the true confession faith in Christ.

As a famous TV character once asked, "Who loves ya, baby?".

 

[boombox4]

I agree with Mr. Carter in that being a member of the Catholic Church (with a big "C") is not a prerequisite for salvation. Being enrolled in any particular church is not a prerequisite, either. Salvation is based on a relationship between an individual and Jesus Christ.

But the word used in the Creed is catholic with a small "C" (taken from the Greek 'katholikos' = universal, acc. to Merriam Webster). And bear in mind, Anglicans and Episcopalians who recite the creed (with a small "c") are not Roman Catholics. The Lutherans substitute the word "Christian" for "catholic".

As for extra-Biblical things, a lot of denominations, including evangelical ones, have their pet doctrines and practices, many of which are not in the New Testament. I hear some of them expounded upon on Christian talk radio from time to time. Over emphasis on prophecy & end times (= fear), tithing (= OT Law, not NT charity), etc.

If Mr. Carter programs a station that extolls what he says he wants to extoll, it should do O.K., because it sounds like it would appeal to Christians of whatever denomination. Scratch deep in nearly every denomination there are central truths all Christians believe.

 

[Silkie]

Prophecy and tithing are not extra Biblical. Christ did not make the Old Testament irrelevant; He fulfilled it and added some weights. There is no expiration date on any part of the Bible.

 

[boombox4]

Extra NT teaching, then. Tithing is OT law, and has the curse & blessing that goes along with it. And by prophecy I was referring to an overemphasis on it which I think many ministries use to make money by scaring people. Some ministries use it to teach members to celebrate the OT feasts and other forms of legalism. There is a lot of OT legalism in many modern evangelical churches.

My point is that Catholics have no corner on peculiarities that weren't taught by the apostles.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

My point is that Catholics have no corner on peculiarities that weren't taught by the apostles.

Absolutely!!! Some of the latest of the non-Catholic heresies / non-salvation issues / general idiocy: creationism, King James only-ism, anti-Harry Potter, baptize vs. bap-TIZE (yeah you know who I am talking about), anti-drums / instrumental only / anti-anapestic beat Christian music-ism. ALL as is ALL of that garbage has no place on a broadly based CCM station, if you want to appeal to a broad audience and secure enough donations to stay on the air.

 

[anotherguyTN]

I'd also add things like Word of Faith theology, obsession with end times, conspiracy theorists, and excessive legalism over personal appearance (hair, clothes, etc.) that should be left off of a broad based CCM station. Actually ALL Christian radio would be better off if a lot of these and what Bruce has mentioned were left off. I do think that there is a time for teaching doctrine, but that should be done on an intelligent Christian talk station or network. That's were networks like Moody, Salem, and Bott have a place. Unfortunately even they have bad doctrine and programming at times. And that isn't counting the dollar a holler outfits that allow anything on for a buck.

Too many times there are people who put their faith more in their denomination or pet doctrines rather than in Christ, and there are people who are guilty of that in all denominations or theological leanings.

 

[Silkie]

The thread is looking more and more like a "what do I get to do?" thread.

 

[anotherguyTN]

Here we go again... Have you read ANY of this thread???

 

[rbrucecarter5]

I remember one time Jimmy's song leader at the time, Stephen Potter made a few comments against Kathy Trocolli because he was against CCM and so was the guy who held the same position at JSM later on too, Reggie Wilcox so both of Jimmy's song leaders were against CCM(and it hurt my Mom because she sometimes liked CCM too) I think there were some people against that music even then(and when you think about it those two guys who were leading singing for Jimmy at different times back then preferred a host of church favorites such as “Leaning on the Everlasting Arms”, where as Miss Trocolli was singing stuff that was more pop style back then) I give credit to Stephen and Reggie as well as Brother Swaggart for standing up against CCM-I would never listen to Kathy Trocolli I would listen to Jimmy Swaggart instead!

Gee, I thought it was because she showed slight cleavage on the cover of CCM magazine. Jimmy Swaggart's problem with lust is well documented. His opinion on anything is unimportant to me, and I do not hear his words. He has no further influence on the Christian faith to speak of. He cannot stop God's movement to new, creative musical styles such as those broadcast on NGEN, The Rock, and Hot 95.9. If his minuscule church wants to oppose God's ministry to young people, that is fine - but young people within that church probably won't stand for a repressive atmosphere and I expect will defect from his church - if not the Christian faith altogether - in adulthood. Such is the fate of many young people coming from churches that don't love and accept them at their point of spiritual need instead of their parent's point of spiritual need.

 

[Silkie]

Long as it tickles their ears, that's all that matters...as if God needs anyone to manage how He ministers to anyone.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Long as it tickles their ears, that's all that matters...as if God needs anyone to manage how He ministers to anyone.

Which includes the anti-CCM crowd as well. It frankly saddens and discourages me that this debate is still going on. The debate is more about power and control over young people than it is ministry. Many a church and radio station spout out "we love young people" - and they do as long as they dress right, listen to good ole' gospel music, etc. The moment a young person has questions, or a style that is contrary to the norm, or likes music with a beat to it - un oh we have to lead them back to the straight and narrow.

I was recruited to speak in a church to young people about music. I went on for at least 10 minutes about the benefit of Christian radio, when one young man stood up and told me point blank that if I was there to push W___ (the conservative Christian station that played praise and worship), that he wasn't going to do it. I thank God for that young man, because I was able to push the upbeat, CHR CCM station in the area. More than one kid came up to me afterward and told me that their parents wouldn't let them listen to it. We are talking about a station totally focused on Jesus Christ, good doctrine, etc. - that was formatted Christian CHR! The parents were trying to fit those kids into their mold, which included only the praise and worship and preaching station. Sad - REALLY sad! Walkmans with radios were just coming on the market - so I told them to buy one and listen to the music God wanted them to - music that drew them closer to Christ. And - yes - listen to the station they were forbidden to listen to, because if that was where Christ was ministering to them, that is what they needed to listen to. Better that than secular - which a lot of the parents didn't mind! (Oh country music isn't bad) REALLY?! I would like to give those parents about two dozen choice examples from country music. Or secular top-40. They shouldn't be threatened by the mere existence of a CHR CCM station. They should be threatened by the existence of secular country and secular top-40.

I wasn't invited to speak there again. I don't care. I care more about the tattoo'ed 16 year old girl with the funny hairstyle, etc - that she gets ministry - than I do about a parent being uncomfortable with CHR CCM. Jesus died for her, too, and if she makes conservative church members uncomfortable by her presence in church - that is the church's problem and not hers!!!

 

[Silkie]

That speaks for itself, but not really the Church.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

That speaks for itself, but not really the Church.

Didn't mean to be mysterious -

The thing is, the church where I was asked to speak was Spring Arbor Free Methodist, and the CHR CCM station was operated by that church! The parents didn't like the station run by their own church! It was WSAE - they stopped being CCM for a while, then they were back, now they are a mixture of secular and Christian called "Home FM" and part of a regional network up there: http://home.fm/ Whatever, they were CHR CCM at the time, way before the praise and worship movement devastated CCM. WUFN - the conservative station preferred by the parents, now seems to be part of Family Life Radio, looks like they are out of Minneapolis. In a twist of irony - the only station I was ever on up there was WUFN - I promoted a new chapter of the American Family Association in Jackson, MI one evening! Run by a nice lady out of a trailer at the time. I didn't have the heart to tell her my radio was always set to WSAE!

Good times - but more than a quarter of a century ago. I only pray that those kids grew to be the adults God would have them be. And that the new CCM station up there - Smile FM 88.1 from Lansing - has CCM that kids living there now find appealing.

 

[Silkie]

See? He gets around to it in His Own good time, so you can stop gnawing your nails down to your elbows. One sows, another reaps.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

my folks once saw Leslie Phillips in either 83 or 84(cant remember the year) and she was nice..you dont see nice people like that in CCM these days..

We had the same experience - before her concert she was playing with the little kids that came to the concert with their parents. Too bad she was shunned by the Dove Awards - who called her a fluff head and gave award after award to adultress Sandy Patti. God was not fooled - all those awards were burned in a fire. Leslie - her heart broken by her treatment, did the only thing she could - she went secular, re-branded herself as "Sam" Phillips. Last time I heard of her, she did the theme song for the ABC Family show "Bunheads".

 

[frankberry]

I deleted it because it was not a valid question.

 

[frankberry]

It's my responsibility to keep this site under control. The first post which I deleted was, in my opinion, a snarky comment.
Your original response was a "popcorn-eating emoticon" which did nothing more than fan the flames.
It's not always what we say ..... It's HOW we say it.

 

[frankberry]

I appreciate your input. I am probably tainted by some of the things which I see daily.

 

[gr8oldies]

Just to add briefly, I added that comment because I thought the castigation of Ms. Patti was gratuitous. According to the "letter of the law", my wife and I are both in adultery. We just happen to believe there is such a thing as forgiveness and new starts. I wasn't aware that the role of individual Christians was to do God's judging for him.