Thanks, dtvdxr! This explains plenty. Much appreciated.
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AM Frequency of the Week: 1520
- Thread starter cyberdad
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Thanks, dtvdxr! This explains plenty. Much appreciated.
I remember those as well in the late '60s. Particularly for a rock/blues band, "The Fabulous Flippers" out of Lawrence, KS, IIRC. They had gigs all over Kansas, Nebraska, and the Dakotas and promoted them at night on KOMA. The station covered their entire geographical area of interest as well as their age demo. And indeed, speaking from experience, KOMA was more popular than WLS in the midwest/great plains between the Mississippi and the Rockies. Better signal and less clutter.
On Feb 4th KGDD 1520 switched to KXET with the Russian Format.
Feb 4th KXET 1150 switched to KGDD with La Gran D //93.5
Feb 12th KXET 1520 changed calls to KQRR
Feb 12th KQRR 1130 changed to KXET.
KQRR and KXET simulcast
That's interesting because I spent some time in 1968 & 69 in Oklahoma and although KOMA & WKY were the locals that everyone listened to, WLS at night came in like a local and many people down there had a car radio preset on 890 for WLS.
Well what's the old saying....from the Bible, actually....about having no honor in your home town?
Part of the problem where I was in eastern Iowa in the late 60s was that it was a convergence zone for WLS. The signal was so-so during the day, but at night it was prone to fading and distortion. KOMA wasn't all that much better, but there wasn't the fading and distortion. KAAY's signal was better yet, but they had a paid religion block for a while at around 9 or 10pm IIRC. Later came Clyde Clifford's Beaker Street. Each, to one extent or the other, drove away top 40 listeners. WLS also had a "tune out" of its own with an early evening half hour or hour news block that lasted until around 1967.
As you went further west from where I was into Iowa and Nebraska, WLS' signal recovered, but by then you were getting into KOMA's main lobe, where their nightime signal was an absolute monster. I remember years later being in a Holiday Inn in Columbus Nebraska. The cheap clock radio in my room produced an unremarkable signal from the two local daytimers (900 and 1510), while at night KOMA sounded like it was coming from across the street!
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I'm sure you were in the convergence zone. One time in the 70s I was driving to St Louis at night and WLS' signal became unlistenable around Rantoul. Then shortly after that it starting getting better. KAAY was gangbusters in the Midwest back in the 60s & 70s.
Back to KOMA, I found that their signal into the Chicago area in the 60s was pretty decent, but certainly not as good farther west as you pointed out. I'm sure they were big in Nebraska, and the Dakotas. A lady I know who grew up in Kansas told me they listened to either KOMA or WLS every night.
Back to KOMA, I found that their signal into the Chicago area in the 60s was pretty decent, but certainly not as good farther west as you pointed out. I'm sure they were big in Nebraska, and the Dakotas. A lady I know who grew up in Kansas told me they listened to either KOMA or WLS every night.
As a top 40 listener in Colorado, I found KOMA to be much more dependable than WLS...which frustrated me because WLS had *far* superior programming! KOMA sounded like radio in the cities they always mentioned in their unrelenting ads for cover bands: Kearney, NB...Lawrence, KS...Minot, ND. And WLS sounded like Chicago! John Records Landecker on WLS vs Shotgun Captain Dimwit on KOMA? There was no comparison. But KOMA's stronger signal earned them the win.
I remember traveling through Kansas in the daytime in the early 70s and hearing KOMA's local competitor WKY for the first time. WKY (though copying everything good about WLS at the time) had KOMA beat in everything but transmitter power.
I remember traveling through Kansas in the daytime in the early 70s and hearing KOMA's local competitor WKY for the first time. WKY (though copying everything good about WLS at the time) had KOMA beat in everything but transmitter power.
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rbrucecarter5
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Midland local top-40 was KCRS - a bit of a regional monster itself, except for a null towards San Antonio. The call letters were two of the Scharbauar brothers - Clarance and Ray I think - who brought the station to Midland. Problem was - they censored the top-40. Usually anybody criticizing that family by listening to an out of town station risked being ostracized. But kids notoriously break out of censorship - hence KOMA at night. They had a strong signal, but then any nighttime signal is subject to fading, and they had their share of fades. Not sure how many WLS listeners there were, but there were definitely some. DX was a popular hobby in Midland to get music not on the air locally. Record stores sold the music, kids would sometimes get together to listen to new albums. I remember when KRLD had album rock at night - enormously popular in Midland! KLIF had no following, but years later when they moved their music format to 570 for a time, it had a few listeners. When I proved Dallas FM was possible - antennas started sprouting up all over town. Rich kids were buying some good receivers for it. Eventually the cable company caught on and put Dallas FM on the cable. But FM band in cars was useless. Cars were all on other AM stations, the Lubbock 950 was popular. Still plenty of people settled for KCRS - but the embargo was broken. Like so many - KOMA included - they eventually went country.
Tried for KOMA in Columbus, Ohio around 1 a.m. ET today ... nothing very listenable. Sounded like two signals were fighting it out, and neither of them were strong enough to hear much. I have to think the culprits were WWKB and KOMA.
10K from Oklahoma up here is quite a haul, but I was still disappointed.
10K from Oklahoma up here is quite a haul, but I was still disappointed.
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rbrucecarter5
Guest
It is now KOKC - yet another talker, and as such pretty much devoid of interest. There was a time in the early 00's when they played oldies, and it was very nice to have them as I drove through isolated stretches of North and West Texas. I even souped up the AM antenna in my car to get a better signal in Dallas. Then they went talk - no more point to listening.
Yessir, RadioMan148 : While on vacation in Clearwater FL in 1969, I recall hearing some kind of jazz show via the other side of KAAY's pattern.
Thing is, the radio was the one that an all-night laundromat had on their speakers!
Casual search-and-questionings up here in Coal Country PA revealed a somewhat predictable inclination. I asked several people my age, who were NE PA natives, what stations they'd listen to at night, as teens, in the 60's.
If I remember the order of preference correctly : WKBW by far, then WABC, WLS, and WOWO.
And yes, a gal we know who was born and raised in Kansas maintains that KOMA, not any station from Kansas, was by far her nighttime choice when she was a teen back then.
Thing is, the radio was the one that an all-night laundromat had on their speakers!
Casual search-and-questionings up here in Coal Country PA revealed a somewhat predictable inclination. I asked several people my age, who were NE PA natives, what stations they'd listen to at night, as teens, in the 60's.
If I remember the order of preference correctly : WKBW by far, then WABC, WLS, and WOWO.
And yes, a gal we know who was born and raised in Kansas maintains that KOMA, not any station from Kansas, was by far her nighttime choice when she was a teen back then.
From '68 through '70, I lived in Johnson County KS, a suburb of Kansas City.
Days, the area was served by KUDL using the Drake format. WHB, while playing R&R, appealed to an older audience. Nights, KUDL powered down to a .5KW directional signal. I'm sure it missed a significant portion of greater KC.
Nights, KAAY had a huge signal in Kansas City, almost local grade. KOMA was also strong.
By then, there was also underground rock, so the bell bottom crowd listened to FM and KANU the University of Kansas station in Lawrence KS, which had an underground rock program at night. Of course, late nights we also listened to Clyde Clifford's Beaker Street on KAAY,
Days, the area was served by KUDL using the Drake format. WHB, while playing R&R, appealed to an older audience. Nights, KUDL powered down to a .5KW directional signal. I'm sure it missed a significant portion of greater KC.
Nights, KAAY had a huge signal in Kansas City, almost local grade. KOMA was also strong.
By then, there was also underground rock, so the bell bottom crowd listened to FM and KANU the University of Kansas station in Lawrence KS, which had an underground rock program at night. Of course, late nights we also listened to Clyde Clifford's Beaker Street on KAAY,
In the 1970s, I was surprised that WTTO 1520 came in, along with some high angle skywave of WKBW and KOMA before pattern change. As far as strong skywaves, WCFL, WOWO, and WLAC were probably the strongest. WLS was weaker due to the vertical pattern null and nondirectional signal, plus we had local WFDF which prevented hearing WLS on many radios much of the time in the pre NRSC era. WABC was hindered by WJR within its predicted 5 mV/m contour. Whether or not there was a strong local station influenced what people listened to. In Flint, Saginaw, and Bay City, WTAC 600 had a commanding signal, even at night with 500 watts. CKLW 800 blanketed the East side of the state. Many stations in Central to West Michigan signed off, such as WVIC 730, WPAG 1050, WKNX 1210, WGRD 1410, WMAX 1480, WYYY 1470, WTPS 1560, and WJML 1110. Others throughout the state had 250 watt Class IV signals, such as WSAM Saginaw, WJIM Lansing, WLAV Grand Rapids, and WIBM Jackson. Others had decent signals in some parts but not in others, such as WKNR 1310, WILS 1320, WTRX 1330, WKMI 1360, WAAM 1600, and WTRU 1600.
I could never figure out why WCFL didn't have better ratings vs. WLS. They had the same DJs at different times, a BETTER signal over much of the central Chicago Metro area, comparable sound quality, and other such factors. Since WCFL's towers were near 180 degrees, there was less of a fade out area in Michigan. West Michigan, East Lansing, and Ann Arbor listened to WLS and WCFL at night. WLS and WCFL influenced the West Michigan Charts like CKLW influenced Eastern Michigan, Toledo, Cleveland, and parts of the East Coast.
I could never figure out why WCFL didn't have better ratings vs. WLS. They had the same DJs at different times, a BETTER signal over much of the central Chicago Metro area, comparable sound quality, and other such factors. Since WCFL's towers were near 180 degrees, there was less of a fade out area in Michigan. West Michigan, East Lansing, and Ann Arbor listened to WLS and WCFL at night. WLS and WCFL influenced the West Michigan Charts like CKLW influenced Eastern Michigan, Toledo, Cleveland, and parts of the East Coast.
LS was owned by ABC and had the TV station to help cross promote (especially with Lujack's spots; the one with Rodney Dangerfield was a good example)....and the ABC News department was better...Remember CFL dropped out of the popular music race in the mid 70s....so WLS was left alone to continue on. BTW, it's tower is a 1/2wl tall as well as omni directional...true CFL had a better signal over the center Chicago Metro area (still does..so does WGN) but the jingles, the DJs, the PDs and the signature of "MusicRadio WLS" made it the leader for soo many years...WLS still commanded into the 80s...where as FM was taking over in most other major markets...only other AM in a major market to do as well as WLS did in the early 80s was 790 in Houston with John Lander and the Q Zoo....they took the former KULF and as KKBQ, in one book went from the cellar into the top 5! For an AM music station, that was unthinkable...then the FM came along but the AM (especially in CQUAM) sounded better to me but at the time, I was living north of Houston and 790s site...at night it went away with pattern change...and a local 880 killed reception of WLS...only time I heard it was driving back "home" to visit my mom and the Sony XRA33 pulled in WLS in stereo at night as long as I was out of 880's splatter range..
WLS was first which did give them an advantage from the start. WCFL did get close to them ratings wise a few times and actually beat WLS once in the spring of 1973 right after Larry Lujack came over.
Another problem that WCFL had as their signal was not great at night in the far western suburbs.
In the late 60s & early 70s I was a student at NIU in De Kalb, Il. WCFL in the daytime was only about half as strong as WLS. At night WCFL was much weaker than that and sounded like it was distant DX without the fading. You could only hear CFL on a car radio and even then it wasn't good. WLS was strong day & night.
On my drives west from Chicago WCFL dropped off west of Aurora during the day & at night that signal fell off a cliff quickly. WLS was equally strong in all directions around Chicago.
Another problem that WCFL had as their signal was not great at night in the far western suburbs.
In the late 60s & early 70s I was a student at NIU in De Kalb, Il. WCFL in the daytime was only about half as strong as WLS. At night WCFL was much weaker than that and sounded like it was distant DX without the fading. You could only hear CFL on a car radio and even then it wasn't good. WLS was strong day & night.
On my drives west from Chicago WCFL dropped off west of Aurora during the day & at night that signal fell off a cliff quickly. WLS was equally strong in all directions around Chicago.
I remember the WLS/WCFL battle from summer vacation (Honor, MI) in 1975. Honor actually skipped the radio age until the FM era, before FM, they waited until sunset to listen to the radio. WCFL's evening DJ was making fun of an awful song called "Run, Joey, Run".
When we came back for 1976, we found that WCFL had flipped to beautiful music (is it just me, or was beautiful an awful choice for a 50kW AM by 1976? Had the last FM with the format in Chi given up by then?) WLS was still T40 and had a strong signal, with the other strong music signal being WOWO (my older brother preferred WLS while I preferred WOWO, which leaned a little toward AC).
I was listening to some country music in that era as well, and living on the far east side of Detroit proper, Class IV WEXL and 1500 WDEE (which, at the time, probably had the tightest directional pattern in all radio - 12 towers, and in one tight lobe, unlike KLIF's) both got a lot of interference at night, so WSM actually had the best country signal at night (CKLW-FM was country, but the only FM radio in the house could not take earphones).
Anyway - back on topic - 1520.
In Detroit it was a very weak WYFC by day (WYFC was a tiny religious daytimer that moved to 990 years later), and nothing but WLAC and WCKY slop at night (no sign of KOMA nor WKBW, though I did once catch WKBW around sunrise).
In Temperance, I had picked up KOMA, WKBW, Muskegon and Sikeston, MO, none ever really listenable.
By day, it had been a station with 12 towers sprawled out over about 15 miles (!), with six of the towers just south of Temperance (less than half a mile north of the Ohio state line, a/k/a the Toledo city limits) for daytime broadcasting beaming south, and the other six south of Toledo, beaming north. The station has had many call letters, currently WNWT, but probably best remembered as WVOI. They later stopped using their Ohio night array, continuing to broadcast, but as a daytimer from the Michigan site/studio. In later years, only their audio ended at sunset - they continued to transmit a dead carrier from the daytime site all night.
About 10 years ago, they replaced both of those arrays with a single new five tower array a little further south of the old night array. Though their power actually dropped from 1kW to 500d/400n, the new array really gets out! I have not logged a new catch on 1520 from here since the new array came on. WSPD is the only Toledo AM that covers the market better than 1520 - and not much better at that (ironically, the best AM coverage of the Toledo area is from Detroit-COLed WJR, with CKLW and now - since an upgrade - CFCO in Chatham arguably covering the greater Toledo area better than WSPD).
When we came back for 1976, we found that WCFL had flipped to beautiful music (is it just me, or was beautiful an awful choice for a 50kW AM by 1976? Had the last FM with the format in Chi given up by then?) WLS was still T40 and had a strong signal, with the other strong music signal being WOWO (my older brother preferred WLS while I preferred WOWO, which leaned a little toward AC).
I was listening to some country music in that era as well, and living on the far east side of Detroit proper, Class IV WEXL and 1500 WDEE (which, at the time, probably had the tightest directional pattern in all radio - 12 towers, and in one tight lobe, unlike KLIF's) both got a lot of interference at night, so WSM actually had the best country signal at night (CKLW-FM was country, but the only FM radio in the house could not take earphones).
Anyway - back on topic - 1520.
In Detroit it was a very weak WYFC by day (WYFC was a tiny religious daytimer that moved to 990 years later), and nothing but WLAC and WCKY slop at night (no sign of KOMA nor WKBW, though I did once catch WKBW around sunrise).
In Temperance, I had picked up KOMA, WKBW, Muskegon and Sikeston, MO, none ever really listenable.
By day, it had been a station with 12 towers sprawled out over about 15 miles (!), with six of the towers just south of Temperance (less than half a mile north of the Ohio state line, a/k/a the Toledo city limits) for daytime broadcasting beaming south, and the other six south of Toledo, beaming north. The station has had many call letters, currently WNWT, but probably best remembered as WVOI. They later stopped using their Ohio night array, continuing to broadcast, but as a daytimer from the Michigan site/studio. In later years, only their audio ended at sunset - they continued to transmit a dead carrier from the daytime site all night.
About 10 years ago, they replaced both of those arrays with a single new five tower array a little further south of the old night array. Though their power actually dropped from 1kW to 500d/400n, the new array really gets out! I have not logged a new catch on 1520 from here since the new array came on. WSPD is the only Toledo AM that covers the market better than 1520 - and not much better at that (ironically, the best AM coverage of the Toledo area is from Detroit-COLed WJR, with CKLW and now - since an upgrade - CFCO in Chatham arguably covering the greater Toledo area better than WSPD).
I was a bit to to the NE of you and about 15 years earlier. At Omena, MI, I had fairly good daytime reception on most days from WLS. The alternatives were 1290 WHGR in Houghton Lake, which had Top 40 in the afternoon, or WKNX-1210 from the Bay City / Midland market. WJJD from Chicago also came in, and was my choice before WLS flipped to Top 40.
WTCM from Traverse City barely made it in daytime, and not at all at night. In 1961, WCCW came on the air, and was listenable but it was a daytimer.
What kind of radio and antenna were you using in Omena, David? We stayed on Crystal Lake a few times in the 1960s, about half way between Beulah and Frankfort. We had to put the telescoping antenna on the Delco car radio all the way up just to get WJR well enough to listen to in the daytime. I would imagine that except during critical hours, WKNX and WHGR would be pretty weak without a good antenna and preamp, or a loop antenna. WHGR might come in at night. I think the old WHGR facilities may still be shown in the Canadian database. It was 3 towers in a line just across the road from Houghton Lake. The stations I do remember coming in on the car radio and a Magnavox portable in the daytime were WDOR 910 Sturgeon Bay and WDBC 680 Escanaba. WCCW and WTCM were weak and about the same strength. I think WTCM used a 180+ degree tower, which gave it a little higher "ERP". I remember somebody, probably Mr. Anderson, telling a story on the air of how he had worked on a Merchant Marine ship with the radio call letters WCCW, and that WCCW 1310 was 5000 watts.
I knew some people who had a radio over Southeast from the Straits of Mackinac, and they apparently used a vertical antenna on their TV tower. I was amazed at what they got in the daytime. I heard spots from Saginaw, and assumed it was WSGW, but it was WKNX. The slide rule dial pointer didn't work, though, and I was told to stop playing with the radio, as it was difficult to get tuned back to where it was. Wouldn't have been for me, though, once I got oriented with the dial.
I knew some people who had a radio over Southeast from the Straits of Mackinac, and they apparently used a vertical antenna on their TV tower. I was amazed at what they got in the daytime. I heard spots from Saginaw, and assumed it was WSGW, but it was WKNX. The slide rule dial pointer didn't work, though, and I was told to stop playing with the radio, as it was difficult to get tuned back to where it was. Wouldn't have been for me, though, once I got oriented with the dial.
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Very well stated, sir. I'm sure they have some degree of local content from time to time that's of interest in their market. But now when you tune in, it's mostly the same canned filler that makes the station sound like thousands of others. Anywhere USA! (yawn).
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rbrucecarter5
Guest
Most of what passes for "local content" is traffic and weather that doesn't even have to be programmed locally. A sure tip-off it is being done remotely is when they mis-pronounce local street names. And of course local commercials - which are diminishing, too, in favor of national companies and chains. During the day, I can find the Rush / Hannity shows on at least a dozen frequencies from nearby markets.
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