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The Triple A Format "Adult Album Alternative"

" Look around the larger markets and check how many successful newer AAA stations there are... meaning ones launched since the year 2000. "
"AAA has not had a successful launch that I can think of in the last decade or more."

How about WXPK 107.1 ? They launched in 2004 and are celebrating their 11th anniversary next month.

"It does not matter whether I am familiar with the songs on a station... any station. It matters what the listeners or potential listeners to the station and its formats know and, even more, want to hear."

We already addressed that --


Regarding Emmis AGAIN they did NOT know how to program (read playlist) a "AAA" station. They played a LOT of tracks NO AAA station was playing or would play. Easy to make that statement David when, by your own admission, "even more than 95% of the music" is "unfamiliar to me".

The OP was talking about AAA working on a full market signal in a big market. We know we know. Times are different today and broadcast companies cannot afford the patience to nurture an audience for example like in LA for a AAA format, we know the format works in other big markets because of favorable demographics and long time practitioners of the genre.
 
SuperRadioFan said:
How about WXPK 107.1 ? They launched in 2004 and are celebrating their 11th anniversary next month.
Click to expand...

OK, if you think 20th in a small market is a definition of "success".

I accept that they have competition from most of the significant NYC stations, but for an exclusive format that does not seem like particularly good performance.

Interestingly, in Fall of 2011 they changed their format description on the Arbitron SIP from "AAA" to "rock". And over the next three years, billings increased although the ratings did not. From your perspective, was there a significant change in the format, or was the description just cosmetic?

Regarding Emmis AGAIN they did NOT know how to program (read playlist) a "AAA" station. They played a LOT of tracks NO AAA station was playing or would play. Easy to make that statement David when, by your own admission, "even more than 95% of the music" is "unfamiliar to me".
Click to expand...

Yet Emmis is a very programming oriented company. These are the folks who took the risk to try the contemporary standards "Red" format in St Louis... something nobody else would do.

I programmed a classic rock station for that same company in a very large market where we got what was likely the highest classic rock share anywhere in the last 20 years. The company understood the format, did all the right things in research, promotion and staffing. So I think that the NYC attempt was really a search for a way to make AAA work in markets where it had no real heritage.

Times are different today and broadcast companies cannot afford the patience to nurture an audience for example like in LA for a AAA format, we know the format works in other big markets because of favorable demographics and long time practitioners of the genre.
Click to expand...

KSCA under Golden West gave the format way too much time. After over 3 years, the station continued to have around a 1.1 share and was not profitable.
 
DavidEduardo said:


That is likely part of the issue, but there may be a causal effect that encouraged listeners to go to personal music collections or new media sources.

While I don't have a great deal of experience with AAA except having helped put an AAA station out of its misery, I have been at a couple of music tests for Alternative rock listeners. All were primary listeners to a local alternative station. But each of them only loved about a third of the library. Any group had their favorites, plus songs they tolerated plus just as many they hated. But the hated songs for one group were the favorites of another.

As BigA says, this is a format that is perfect for new media as the music has fragmented so much that an OTA station has a hard time finding consensus music library without also including a lot of disliked songs.
Click to expand...

I can only think of two ways this could turn out. Either they left out all the favorites that just as many hated and just kept the tolerated ones OR they kept all the high scoring songs, in spite of just as many negatives, along with the tolerable ones. Either way, I can't imagine anyone wanting to listen!
 
TheBigA said:
To me, the most fascinating part about studying fans of this genre is the low tolerance it has for songs outside their favorites. No other format or genre has this problem, or experiences it to this extreme. As I've said here before, the benefits of this format don't make up for the negatives. It's easier to simply do something else.
Click to expand...

If you've ever met the average XPN listener, you'd understand. Snob would be putting it nicely.
 
Look, in all honesty, I just wish that the triple A format would work as a full market station like MMR or MGK. I love that format, and love hearing new artists in the indie scene so you can see my bias towards it. Also, my favorite philly station is WKDU, another bias for triple A. I know that radio is a business and only works if that audience is listening. But, I am a bit tired of stations playing nothing but the classics or the same 5 current songs. Sure, it *seems* to be pleasing the audience, but seeing as how the market for stations like 965 or 102.1 pretty much only uses iphones, I would bet radio needs some tweaking. I fully believe it is time for new formats to be made. I really wanna make the college stations like WKDU, and take its free format style (basically like triple a) and make it a full market station. I really think that since it is so different by hearing new artists that it has a big success potential.
 
WXPN is full market and beyond. What's your point? People know where the station is and what it plays. They either want to listen, or they do not. Really, it's that simple.
 
DavidEduardo said:


OK, if you think 20th in a small market is a definition of "success".

I accept that they have competition from most of the significant NYC stations, but for an exclusive format that does not seem like particularly good performance.

Interestingly, in Fall of 2011 they changed their format description on the Arbitron SIP from "AAA" to "rock". And over the next three years, billings increased although the ratings did not. From your perspective, was there a significant change in the format, or was the description just cosmetic?



Yet Emmis is a very programming oriented company. These are the folks who took the risk to try the contemporary standards "Red" format in St Louis... something nobody else would do.

I programmed a classic rock station for that same company in a very large market where we got what was likely the highest classic rock share anywhere in the last 20 years. The company understood the format, did all the right things in research, promotion and staffing. So I think that the NYC attempt was really a search for a way to make AAA work in markets where it had no real heritage.



KSCA under Golden West gave the format way too much time. After over 3 years, the station continued to have around a 1.1 share and was not profitable.
Click to expand...

Any station like WXPK that can keep the same format for 11 years and facing the radio dial claustrophobia by sharing the 107.1 FM signal with not one, not two, but three other metropolitan area stations in MY book is a "success". Not to mention they have the absolutely BEST air staff of any station in the format.

David what does "SIP" stand for and I thought it was Nielson not Arbitron rating radio now?

Regarding the nomenclature change, mostly cosmetic for the playlist though in the last few years WXPK along with many other AAA stations has infused more tracks that used to be exclusive on Alternative Rock stations. WXPK does play more classic rock tracks and/or classic rock artists deeper cuts. Though I have never heard them play the studio version of "Hotel California" or "Stairway to Heaven". The latter is part of the "Stairway to Heaven" rule instituted at the Peak's commencement.

I liked the "RED" format, 'twas nice.

For the record, and I know its nitpicking but I'm not the only one here who nitpicks, the AAA KSCA was on for 2 years 7 months and 3 days IIRC. (THAT one you can verify, David.)
 
SuperRadioFan said:
Since you're in Cleveland, have you checked out oWow??

http://owownow.com/

http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2015/02/former_wmms_program_director_a.html

http://radioinsight.com/blog/headlines/92032/john-gorman-launching-cleveland-internet-aaa/



http://www.crainscleveland.com/arti...pendent-internet-station-owow-brings-timeless
Click to expand...
I've been meaning to, but unfortunately have not had a spare hour to stream anything lately. I may give it a shot this weekend. It's quite an interesting concept for a radio station, to say the least.
 
DavidEduardo said:
Look at WRNR, the OP's reference. It gets an average of around a 0.4 share and is ranked between 35th and 40th in the market.
Click to expand...

RNR is a bad example to use to support the "AAA doesn't work" point since it's a limited signal and it only targets Annapolis, which is a tiny fraction of the Baltimore market. It also has bigger signal non-comm competition in the form of WTMD.

That said, the broader point is correct, especially as it relates to Philadelphia. The places commercial AAA works are heavily white, not too old, and have a bit of a hippie vibe. That's not Philadelphia. You also have to consider that the market already has a non-comm AAA in WXPN, a softish Alternative station in WRFF, and a heritage rocker in WMMR. There's just no room for another player in that space.

AAA seems to work targeting some non-rated markets, or targeting small sections of rated markets. That's what WRNR and WXPK do, and each seems to have achieved some success with it when you take into account their limited signals. There's just no way the format is best use of a 50kW blowtorch in a big mid-Atlantic city.
 
Notes

As I write this 3/2015, KFOG in San Francisco (#4) and WXRT in Chicago (#3) are the top-rated rock station in their markets.

I don't know why The Big A and David Edurado are so hostile to the format. In both San Francisco and Chicago, AAA makes mincemeat out of the market's Country stations. Does that mean Country is a despicable format? No,of course not. It means it's either not the right format for the market, it isn't being done right, or both. Doesn't make it a worthless format.

I'd also like to point out the huge difference between Commercial AAAs and non-coms, such as WXPN. To ignore that difference in a critique is to be disingenuous to say the least.
 
But you didn't point out the huge difference, even if you'd like to.
 
Unregistered said:
As I write this 3/2015, KFOG in San Francisco (#4) and WXRT in Chicago (#3) are the top-rated rock station in their markets.
Click to expand...
While I agree that WXRT is a strong performer, I wouldn't say being the top rock station in SF is a feat, especially since they've only beaten Live 105 once in the past six books. In terms of KFOG, I'd say they are the ace of a bad pitching staff.
 
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More notes

Unregistered said:
But you didn't point out the huge difference, even if you'd like to.
Click to expand...

As you would like more explication, here are 3.

#1 Rotations. Non-coms' most played currents get about 1/2 as many spins a s a typical commercial AAA; roughly 15 vs roughly 30. Commercials stations also rack up way more total spins on currents, then move them to recurrent for more spins. Non-coms rarely get past 200 spins on a current,. and utilize recurrents far less. If you don't have BDS or Mediabase you can see all sorts of spin info on allaccess.com

#2 Selections. Commercial AAAs play far more music than crosses over to other formats such as Classic Rock, Hot AC, and Alternative. Non-coms have a strong preference music that is exclusively theirs. Good recent example; Chateau Lobby #4 (In C For Two Virgins) by Father John Misty. WXPN has played it 144 times (a lot for them), KBCO 3 times.

#3 Goals. Commercial stations want ratings. Non-coms want donations. Not the same at all.

As to whether KFOG beating 2 Classic Rocks, an Alternative, and the Country station is because those other stations suck even worse; so what? A win is a win. It's not like I'm a fan of KFOG's PD. For example, I hear mixed reports on him being human and not a pod person from Invasion of the Body Snatchers. But when you beat the competition, you are the winner. Ask any General Manager.

Of course, they'll also tell you they need more cume next time.
 
Again, they've beaten Live 105 (one of the worst performing Alternative brands in PPM) once in the past six books. The only way they're a winner is that they consistently outbill Live (Again, not really a feat). And, given KFOG's billing levels, their "win" is not an argument to launch AAA in Philadelphia.
 
atrainradio said:
Look, in all honesty, I just wish that the triple A format would work as a full market station like MMR or MGK. I love that format, and love hearing new artists in the indie scene so you can see my bias towards it. Also, my favorite philly station is WKDU, another bias for triple A. I know that radio is a business and only works if that audience is listening. But, I am a bit tired of stations playing nothing but the classics or the same 5 current songs. Sure, it *seems* to be pleasing the audience, but seeing as how the market for stations like 965 or 102.1 pretty much only uses iphones, I would bet radio needs some tweaking. I fully believe it is time for new formats to be made. I really wanna make the college stations like WKDU, and take its free format style (basically like triple a) and make it a full market station. I really think that since it is so different by hearing new artists that it has a big success potential.
Click to expand...

MMR and MGK don't have their own chain of music theaters. I think the people who run XPN are doing just fine. For the niche appeal of the format, they're raking in money hand over fist.
 
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