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What's happening at KTWV "The Wave"?

In 2008, someone on another site started a thread titled "No More Smooth Jazz Format." KTWV had dropped the "Smooth Jazz" identifier in favor of "Smooth AC." The poster---okay, okay, it was me---quoted general manager Dan Weiner: "Our format is an AC hybrid with many contemporary vocals and instrumental covers. Over twenty years ago, New AC was launched and the audience began describing the music as smooth jazz. Today the listeners still identify positively with that description but in agencies we feel that Smooth AC is a better way to describe the format." At the risk of K.M. chastising me for being sarcastic even in 2008, I invite everyone here to see the KTWV discussion:

http://xmfan.com/viewtopic.php?t=92576&start=0
 
K.M., the station hasn't changed much in the past six years. For your amazement and amusement I will share this post that I made on June 6, 2009:

Today KTWV played Al Green's I'm Still In Love With You, the Eagles' I Can't Tell You Why and the Jackson Five's Never Can Say Goodbye. "Smooth jazz"??? In the station's first decade, they boasted a 4000-song playlist. Now the everyday playlist is down to a few hundred songs and most of these top-40 pop hits are being played every day. Yikes!

And this one from June 9, 2009:

Ooh-wee, more great jazz classics today: Me & Mrs. Jones by Billy Paul, Close To You by Maxi Priest, Every Breath You Take by the Police, and Sailing and Ride Like The Wind by Christopher Cross. "Miles Davis? John Coltrane? Bill Evans? Chet Baker? Sorry, never heard of 'em!"
 
Why do you insist on revisiting all of your past posts on the subject, Steve?

This thread is allegedly about what changes CBS is making/will make at 94.7 in the aftermath of the 92.3 format change.

I will be happy to stipulate that there have been lots of changes there over the years, if you will just stop reminding us what they were.
 
K.M., I mentioned the thread on that other site because I thought some of you might like to read the comments about KTWV and about the smooth jazz format in general. So far today, KTWV has played no smooth jazz instrumentals...but they've played September, Suavecito, Let's Groove, Let's Get It On, Let's Stay Together, I'll Be Around, Sexual Healing, Always & Forever, My Girl, Evil Ways, Could It Be I'm Falling In Love.....and quite a few songs have already been played twice today. Ralph Stewart and Alexa Smith must be thinking, "Hey, it works for KRTH!"

Until KTWV makes a definite format change, I shall refrain from making any more comments here...although you all know I'm not the refrainer I used to be.
 
LARadioRewind said:
So far today, KTWV has played no smooth jazz instrumentals...but they've played September, Suavecito, Let's Groove, Let's Get It On, Let's Stay Together, I'll Be Around, Sexual Healing, Always & Forever, My Girl, Evil Ways, Could It Be I'm Falling In Love.....and quite a few songs have already been played twice today. Ralph Stewart and Alexa Smith must be thinking, "Hey, it works for KRTH!"
Click to expand...

And the answer to that is the same as was explained in various threads on KRTH: Song repetition, if controlled properly by the scheduling software, are not noticeable by the average listener. Those who check online playlists or listen for 12 hours at a time are not "average".

(For the record, the "power" songs at the station I consult in Albuquerque also play at least twice per 24-hour day, but have a minimum of eight hours between plays.)

Until KTWV makes a definite format change, I shall refrain from making any more comments here...although you all know I'm not the refrainer I used to be.
Click to expand...

Sounds to me from the first comments that you are implying they have already.
 
K.M. Richards said:
And the answer to that is the same as was explained in various threads on KRTH: Song repetition, if controlled properly by the scheduling software, are not noticeable by the average listener. Those who check online playlists or listen for 12 hours at a time are not "average".
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No, but those who check out a station for a half an hour or less on their 6:00 am drive to work and again when they come home at 6:30 or 7:00 at night ARE normal listeners, and if they only get to hear a few songs a day (particularly on a gold based station) they most likely don't want to hear the same ones on their way in and on their way home. So while you are proud that you only rotated after eight ours (in this case, twelve) the listener now thinks that you are playing the same songs all day. They of course, are right.
 
ChannelFlipper said:
K.M. Richards said:
And the answer to that is the same as was explained in various threads on KRTH: Song repetition, if controlled properly by the scheduling software, are not noticeable by the average listener. Those who check online playlists or listen for 12 hours at a time are not "average".
Click to expand...

No, but those who check out a station for a half an hour or less on their 6:00 am drive to work and again when they come home at 6:30 or 7:00 at night ARE normal listeners, and if they only get to hear a few songs a day (particularly on a gold based station) they most likely don't want to hear the same ones on their way in and on their way home. So while you are proud that you only rotated after eight ours (in this case, twelve) the listener now thinks that you are playing the same songs all day. They of course, are right.
Click to expand...

I had to read that three times and I still don't see how you made that connection.

Your claim of a 12-hour rotation appears to have been based on my description of an atypical listener, which you conveniently boldfaced. An eight-hour rotation actually works for your prototype listener:

On Monday, songs that play in the 6:00-6:30am hour repeat around 2:00-2:30pm ... more than four hours before your prototype listener drives home. He hears songs that previously played around 10:30-11:00am.

On Tuesday, those 6:30-7:00pm Monday evening songs play around 8:30-9:00am.

Of course, you're also presuming that eight hours is a strict repeat, which we all know is not the case when scheduler rules such as next day play separation or artist separation have an effect on same. That's what is meant by "controlled properly by the scheduling software" ... realistically, that eight hours easily becomes nine (or maybe ten) hours, increasing every time you run through the entire category. That means the Monday morning songs are playing around 9:00am on Tuesday, 1:00pm on Wednesday, 5:00pm Thursday, and 9:00pm Friday. None of those times fall into the afternoon commute time of 6:30pm.

So much for your "gotcha". You must really believe I'm stupid if you think I would take only number of hours into consideration when creating scheduling rules, Flipper.
 
K.M. Richards said:
So much for your "gotcha". You must really believe I'm stupid if you think I would take only number of hours into consideration when creating scheduling rules, Flipper.
Click to expand...

Those of us using Selector or MusicMaster can create rotational rules for gold and recurrents that avoid matching drive time pairs such as the 8 AM hour and the 4 to 6 PM hours for repeats.

And what the armchair experts forget is that a considerable amount of the daily repetition is caused by gold recycling where the songs used in, typically, 11 AM to 4 PM are reused in Midnight to 6 AM or Midnight to 5 AM... it looks like two plays a day, when for 99% of listeners, it is not.
 
K.M. Richards said:
I had to read that three times and I still don't see how you made that connection.

Your claim of a 12-hour rotation appears to have been based on my description of an atypical listener, which you conveniently boldfaced. An eight-hour rotation actually works for your prototype listener:

On Monday, songs that play in the 6:00-6:30am hour repeat around 2:00-2:30pm ... more than four hours before your prototype listener drives home. He hears songs that previously played around 10:30-11:00am.

On Tuesday, those 6:30-7:00pm Monday evening songs play around 8:30-9:00am.

Of course, you're also presuming that eight hours is a strict repeat, which we all know is not the case when scheduler rules such as next day play separation or artist separation have an effect on same. That's what is meant by "controlled properly by the scheduling software" ... realistically, that eight hours easily becomes nine (or maybe ten) hours, increasing every time you run through the entire category. That means the Monday morning songs are playing around 9:00am on Tuesday, 1:00pm on Wednesday, 5:00pm Thursday, and 9:00pm Friday. None of those times fall into the afternoon commute time of 6:30pm.

So much for your "gotcha". You must really believe I'm stupid if you think I would take only number of hours into consideration when creating scheduling rules, Flipper.
Click to expand...

I love how you simultaneously say you don't understand my point while completely validating it. Normal people who listen to a station check it out at all different times. I just gave but one example. Many people have irregular schedules and just because a song plays in the morning drive on one day, mid days the next, and evening the day after doesn't mean listeners don't notice, and one doesn't have to be an abnormal listener to notice. There will always be a % of the audience that hears at least two of the airings, some all three.

When I was in college and juggling many jobs along with my classes, I was such a listener who listened at different times on different days depending on my schedule, and was amazed at the obvious rotation schedule you describe (and worse - I have heard the same song three times in a day on a local oldies station before - I couldn't believe they were on the same, uh, planet as me). You think you're outsmarting your audience, and I suppose for some, maybe most you are. But there is a small % that sees right through you and you're alienating them. The point is, they are not abnormal, you just think they are. They're just intelligent, and don't like having that intelligence insulted.
 
I call foul.

ChannelFlipper said:
I love how you simultaneously say you don't understand my point while completely validating it. Normal people who listen to a station check it out at all different times. I just gave but one example. Many people have irregular schedules and just because a song plays in the morning drive on one day, mid days the next, and evening the day after doesn't mean listeners don't notice, and one doesn't have to be an abnormal listener to notice. There will always be a % of the audience that hears at least two of the airings, some all three.
Click to expand...

First you give me a precise example (your listener who has a half-hour commute to work at 6:00am and a return at 6:30pm) and try to tell me why scheduling methodology doesn't work for that listener. When I prove that it does, you shift gears and give me the argument that listeners are all different.

By your latest logic, there is no way to program music properly. I guess the entire industry should give up.
 
ChannelFlipper said:
There will always be a % of the audience that hears at least two of the airings, some all three.
Click to expand...

I don't understand the problem. There is a routine to most people's lives. They wake up around the same time, they brush their teeth, eat basically the same breakfast, take the same commute to work, do basically the same job, with basically the same people, and go home at night to the same wife. None of that seems to be a problem. So hearing the same song a couple times a day shouldn't be out of the ordinary. Especially if it's a favorite.

The whole idea of format radio is to deliver a certain level of predictability. That way the listener gets what he expects when he tunes in. If he feels like a change, he tunes in a different station. If the routine of the station is too predictable, listen to a different station for the commute home. A radio station can't anticipate your every move. You have to take some responsibility.

In the meantime, what does this have to do with KTWV and why has this thread been hijacked once again to talking about another station? If you listen every now and then to The Wave, you'll hear songs you never hear on KRTH, and there will be less repetition. Problem solved.
 
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Don Barrett is taking a few days off. There will be no LARadio.com columns until June 24 or 25. This thread seems like an appropriate place for me to post today's Rewind feature. And it's patriotic too!

LARadio Rewind: June 18, 2014. KTWV morning host Pat Prescott and Los Angeles City Council member Bernard Parks announce KTWV's sponsorship of a Fourth Of July Fireworks Extravaganza at Van Ness Park in South Los Angeles, The event will feature live music, food trucks, children's activities and a fireworks display presented by Pyro Spectaculars of Rialto with a KTWV mixer synchronizing music to the fireworks. Parks had staged 11 previous Fireworks Extravaganzas at Memorial Coliseum. In 2015, his annual July 4th celebration will again be held at Van Ness Park, starting at noon.
 
LARadioRewind said:
Don Barrett is taking a few days off. There will be no LARadio.com columns until June 24 or 25. This thread seems like an appropriate place for me to post today's Rewind feature. And it's patriotic too!

LARadio Rewind: June 18, 2014. KTWV morning host Pat Prescott and Los Angeles City Council member Bernard Parks announce KTWV's sponsorship of a Fourth Of July Fireworks Extravaganza at Van Ness Park in South Los Angeles, The event will feature live music, food trucks, children's activities and a fireworks display presented by Pyro Spectaculars of Rialto with a KTWV mixer synchronizing music to the fireworks. Parks had staged 11 previous Fireworks Extravaganzas at Memorial Coliseum. In 2015, his annual July 4th celebration will again be held at Van Ness Park, starting at noon.
Click to expand...

Maybe the site should be LARadioRewind.com with Don occasionally filing his content?
 
I started writing the daily trivia feature in 2003 when Jim Hawthorne became ill. I was supposed to be filling in for a few months.....and the fill-in became permanent. Jim, whose columns were titled Hawthorne's HIStory, died in 2007. I used to write a much lengthier Rewind. I included celebrity birthdays, music trivia, radio trivia and the top songs from a particular date. A few months ago, Don decided he wanted only a single paragraph each day and it has to be about a Los Angeles radio station or DJ. He also prefers that the stories be from the past 30 years or so. I'm doing my best to work within those limitations.
 
LARadioRewind said:
I started writing the daily trivia feature in 2003 when Jim Hawthorne became ill. I was supposed to be filling in for a few months.....and the fill-in became permanent. Jim, whose columns were titled Hawthorne's HIStory, died in 2007. I used to write a much lengthier Rewind. I included celebrity birthdays, music trivia, radio trivia and the top songs from a particular date. A few months ago, Don decided he wanted only a single paragraph each day and it has to be about a Los Angeles radio station or DJ. He also prefers that the stories be from the past 30 years or so. I'm doing my best to work within those limitations.
Click to expand...

Seriously? Don's limiting you to 1985 and onward (more or less)?

Yikes! In a town with as rich a radio history as Los Angeles (and with arguably the best stories coming from pre-'85), that's not a call I'd make.
 
michael hagerty said:
Seriously? Don's limiting you to 1985 and onward (more or less)?

Yikes! In a town with as rich a radio history as Los Angeles (and with arguably the best stories coming from pre-'85), that's not a call I'd make.
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Don is simply trying to stay in demo and the kids just don't care about old stories of KMPC and The Swingin' Gentlemen of Color Radio KFWB 98. You gotta appeal to the kids, you can't monetize advertising aimed at geezers.
 
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