AM Signals Now Versus Then

[cyberdad]

It seems like in every thread, there's an example of some former powerhouse AM signal that's not as good as it was "back in the day". Of course there are some perfectly good explanations of this. Aging equipment, urban development, higher noise levels, IBOC, more crowded frequencies, etc.

Since this has been discussed and explained numerous times, I thought I'd take a different tack....

Are any of you guys experiencing an instance where it seems to you that a station is actually getting out better than it did years ago using the exact same power, antenna pattern, etc.? I'm not talking about where a station has been lax with maintaining its antenna pattern, forgetting to power down, etc. I'm talking about where as far as can be determined, the station has been operating exactly as has been licensed for many years. Does that make sense?

I'm thinking of a couple of examples: The first is WCCO. The night signal here has always been decent, but it used to be "just one of the crowd" of the former 1-A "clears". Now, more often than not, it booms in. Splattering onto WBAP and WHAS instead of the other way around. WABC and WCBS also SEEM to be doing better hear at night than in past decades, but those two are a little tougher to determine..

Daytime, WOI from Ames,IA is one I never used to hear at my location. 5kw ND from roughly 300 miles (over a really good ground conductivity path). Now, with a good radio, it's not unusual to hear it underneath WMFN from near Grand Rapids, MI. 1.2kw ND from about 130 miles (and a not-so-good conductivity path). I'm also hearing another Iowan, KXIC from Iowa City, that I never used to hear around here, but that could have something to do with their DA.

 

[icybluelake]

I agree with you about WCCO being better at night than in the olden days. The other one that comes to mind is WFAN. It's not a regular for me at night, but I sure hear it more often than, say, WNBC (in those days) which was a rarity. WABC may be better than it was decades ago, too -- at least better than I remember. I tried pretty hard to find it because they had music I actually wanted to hear. Their programming now never interests me.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

It's interesting that all of those signals you mentioned as being better are in the Northern part of the country. I wonder if it has to do with lowest solar activity that we have had in a long time. I have noticed some strong signals coming in the last few days later at night, and reminding me of Winter conditions. The skywave model used for domestic calculations uses a geomagnetic midpoint, and I'm thinking that this is not accurate under current solar conditions. WCCO for many years seemed to lag the others in signal, and I was thinking that they are the furthest North of any Class I-A station in the US. What about CBK, CFZM, CJBC, and the 690 in Montreal? Any observations? The only thing is I think some of them are not using 1/2 wave antennas anymore as commercial properties.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

It's interesting that all of those signals you mentioned as being better are in the Northern part of the country. I wonder if it has to do with lowest solar activity that we have had in a long time. I have noticed some strong signals coming in the last few days later at night, and reminding me of Winter conditions. The skywave model used for domestic calculations uses a geomagnetic midpoint, and I'm thinking that this is not accurate under current solar conditions. WCCO for many years seemed to lag the others in signal, and I was thinking that they are the furthest North of any Class I-A station in the US. What about CBK, CFZM, CJBC, and the 690 in Montreal? Any observations? The only thing is I think some of them are not using 1/2 wave antennas anymore as commercial properties.

It is funny that many of the stations mentioned are actually worse now for me from Houston.

WFAN - I have never heard a single trace of this station anywhere in Texas from the mid 60's to the present.
WABC - it was a fairly easy receive in Houston in the 60's and 70's - all you had to do is throw a null towards KOB. Now not a trace.
WCBS - I have heard it as far West as Lubbock in the 60's but KRVN coming on the wrecked the reception. Now from Houston, even KRVN is buried in Spanish language stuff, and WCBS is nowhere to be heard. It was also absent a few years ago when I listened from Dallas.
WCCO - much weaker than even a decade ago. It is a rare catch now buried in Spanish language stuff.

The only two stations that have improved radically are semi-locals WBAP and WOAI. Since dumping IBOC, both are much stronger over Houston. I can clear the static completely from both if I am in a quiet listening environment.

I expect the situation to improve as Mexican stations migrate to FM, but I have heard any benefit yet. I'm also hoping that the economy will clear out some of the nonsensical US station glut on the AM dial, clearing up some of these frequencies.

 

[radioman148]

Here in the near north Chicago suburbs I also am finding WCCO stronger than it used to be. However, I used to hear WOI during the day a long time ago, but WMFN is way over it now at my location. Regarding WABC, I used to hear it quite well in it's music days, but I'm too close to WBBM & it's IBOC to hear it at all now. When WSCR turns off IBOC WFAN is stronger than in it's WNBC days. WCBS has always been the best NYC catch here and still is.

 

[cyberdad]

. What about CBK, CFZM, CJBC, and the 690 in Montreal? Any observations? The only thing is I think some of them are not using 1/2 wave antennas anymore as commercial properties.

For me, anyway, CFZM is a monster. It may fall into the category of "stronger", but CJBC seems to be just about the same as it's always been. These two are still diplexed the same tower west of Toronto. CBK is a little tough to evaluate given the presence of Milwaukee's 540 aimed right at me. It's usually audible underneath. The new incarnation of 690 from Montreal, if anything, may be weaker than the former CBF. But I haven't heard enough of it to say for sure. As for WFAN, it's tough to say. They usually aren't strong enough to break through WSCR's IBOC splatter, and even in their WNBC days they were the toughest of the former "1-A" New Yorkers for me.

 

[schmave]

KDKA has been sounding better on skywave recently here in central Ohio than it has in a long time. It's usually been a terrible signal day and night as long as I can remember.
As far as a station I've listened to for years, WSCR has been a better signal the past 5-10 years in this region largely because it doesn't face the interference from the Cuban 670 that it did 20 or so years ago. Said it in other threads, but the Cuban used to be so loud some nights around here that you couldn't even null it out by turning the radio. It would take out then-WMAQ. Was beyond obnoxious.

 

[Icangelp]

I agree with schmave that KDKA has an improved skywave signal.

Years ago, 850/KOA was an infrequent night visitor here. Now, it is weak but regular.

1170/WWVA almost never made it to Cincinnati after sunset. Now I occasionally receive it.

1010/CFRB seems to have a stronger signal than years ago, and by years I mean 1990 or so. Have they in any way changed their pattern?

 

[spiritof67]

From my location (St. Louis), CFZM has a much more reliable signal than in the old days when they were the CBC.

 

[cyberdad]

I agree with schmave that KDKA has an improved skywave signal.

Years ago, 850/KOA was an infrequent night visitor here. Now, it is weak but regular.

1170/WWVA almost never made it to Cincinnati after sunset. Now I occasionally receive it.

1010/CFRB seems to have a stronger signal than years ago, and by years I mean 1990 or so. Have they in any way changed their pattern?

I definitely concur that KDKA's skywave signal has gotten better recently. It had really been anemic for a while. But I still don't think it's a good as it was a dozen or so years ago. As for KOA, I'd say that used to be about 90% reliable here northwest of Chicago. Now it's closer to 100%...and usually with a good signal. I can't speak to WWVA, since it's always been a tough catch here. CFRB is still doable here, but not as common as it used to be. I'm not sure if that has something to do with their pattern or just more stuff on the channel.

 

[gar hi]

When I moved down here in 1984, WLS was by far the strongest northern signal at night.

I loved to listen to them on my Sony AM Stereo Walkman too.

Now, they are barely audible most of the time under the Cuban station on the same frequency.

In this case, maybe it's just because of the much closer station from Cuba but considering what a powerhouse WLS was in the past, I would have assumed they would be louder.

There's a Cuban station on 880 that I can even hear in the daytime and it often buries WCBS almost completely but much the time, WCBS is still the dominant one.

On some nights, WLS has been dominant on 890 but it's rare and short lasting.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

When I moved down here in 1984, WLS was by far the strongest northern signal at night.

I loved to listen to them on my Sony AM Stereo Walkman too.

Now, they are barely audible most of the time under the Cuban station on the same frequency.

In this case, maybe it's just because of the much closer station from Cuba but considering what a powerhouse WLS was in the past, I would have assumed they would be louder.

There's a Cuban station on 880 that I can even hear in the daytime and it often buries WCBS almost completely but much the time, WCBS is still the dominant one.

On some nights, WLS has been dominant on 890 but it's rare and short lasting.

Same from Houston in the early 80's - WLS was very strong at night and in perfect stereo on a walkman (SRF-A1). Still a great little radio, although FM suffers from images. Sony's little wonder chip - the CXA1129 beats their old superhet design on both bands.

WLS would start coming in on the beach at Galveston as early as mid afternoon. When the music died on KILT about 1981 - I remember walking down the beach and hearing WLS coming from at least three different radios. That, and WNOE.

I think the problem with WLS is housing subdivisions near its towers, changing ground conductivity. That, or they just don't care any more about their ground radials. There is more to their woes than IBOC, although that seems to be hurting WMAQ, WGN, and WBBM - or whatever call letters they have today. They used to be overnight powerhouses in Houston, now only WBBM. Oh and the station on 1000 - they used to be a lot better than they are now. I remember a trip to Baltimore - about mid afternoon I was waiting for a plane at the airport, I tuned around and 1000 was the strongest station on the radio. I assumed it was a local, but no - it was Chicago. I think it was a Christian station then.

Back to New York stations - I know when I lived in Daytona Beach Shores, 660, 770, and 880 were easy to hear all day long on a GE SR-2 with only its internal ferrite. I lived in that house on the intercoastal waterway for 10 months - reception never varied with season. At night they were obliterated by Cubans for the most part. WOR was never there, a strong 710 in Miami swamped them. As for Chicago stations in the daytime - no luck although WLW was there all day long. WSB was really strong as well, but something broke the path to Chicago. I don't remember WSM or WHAS in the daytime, and I did listen for them. I moved a few miles inland in Port Orange - not a trace of the New York or other stations. I need to get back to Florida one of these times and do a "sanity check"on my earlier observations to confirm them. This time with a video.

 

[Steve Green NEPA]

The majority of the stations I've heard being weaker are way too numerous. And as someone mentioned, the WNBC's and WABC's of the world no longer entertain the people who listened to them when the dial was clearer .... and before IBOC ..... and the QRM.

Last Christmas Eve, CJBC was booming in. They sort of alternate year-to-year. See, they're an annual ritual here. I had their stream one year, but we all know that'll never be the same thing. I went back to the radio after that. As someone here posted, the wavering differences most likely are affected by the northern latitude. Plus, the Holidays are during the good DX season.

It was a few years ago, while on a paint job, *just* past sunset, and I tuned in what I thought was a new Pottsville station. It was louder than the locals WPPA and WPAM!
Of course, it was WWKBW. Wow, what a rocket or reception that was.

WRVA 1140 is another one that doesn't seem to've changed all these decades. (Until lately I'd never known they were directional 24/7, incidentally). And they don't send all THAT much power toward me in NE Pennsylvania. But they're always there clearly ; sometimes crashing onto WBBR 1130 -- which DOES send a nice nub of signal directly our way at night.

About ten-twelve years ago, WTIC Hartford signed off overnight amid a much-publicized DX-fest here in the Northeast in the form of one KRLD Dallas.
KRLD came in so loudly here that an engineering buddy of mine out on Long Island, who tuned in late, waved off the 1080 monitoring. He thought it was WTIC!

Well, on the whole and for the most part, I can only say that by me, nighttime reception of the big clears is noticeably but not alarmingly less than it had been years ago. Added stations, Auroral Cx, Mid-Winter Anomaly commotion, IBOC, et al will remain obstacles. But DXers have put up with this junk before.

 

[charlestondxman]

I have been DXing AM for 16-17 years (I am 23), and I have noticed a lot of changes with signals. Talking about daytime, WSB and WBT used to be easy weak pickups here daytime. WBT still comes in, but not WSB. Only during the winter does WSB come in. I have noticed some stronger signals with stations like WIOD 610 out of Miami. I used to never get that daytime here, but 600 got a little weaker out of Jacksonville, while 610 is on STA for higher power, and that is an everyday pickup for me now. I remember around 2002 or so Jacksonville 600 briefly simulcast the FM oldies station (Kool 96.9) while they were getting sold to ABC for Radio Disney, and it was an easy get here. I listened to it a lot.

At night, signals like WCBS seem to be a little stronger. WFAN though is weaker than it used to be here. There's a difference here with WFAN and WCBS, even though they have the same transmitter site. I don't get as many signals like I used to from the Midwest either. WSCR might come in a few times a year, while WGN is usually blotted out in metro Charleston by a local 730. WBBM, WLS and WMVP are the only consistent signals. WLW still blasts in like it used to. WHO is a little weaker, and WCCO doesn't come in much at all. WOWO is much weaker. Even on the old 9.8 KW signal they had, it was an easy get in the early 2000s.

Local daytime signals seem to be coming in stronger than they used to. It helps when I have better radios in my car.

 

[gar hi]

Same from Houston in the early 80's - WLS was very strong at night and in perfect stereo on a walkman (SRF-A1). Still a great little radio, although FM suffers from images. Sony's little wonder chip - the CXA1129 beats their old superhet design on both bands.

WLS would start coming in on the beach at Galveston as early as mid afternoon. When the music died on KILT about 1981 - I remember walking down the beach and hearing WLS coming from at least three different radios. That, and WNOE.

I think the problem with WLS is housing subdivisions near its towers, changing ground conductivity. That, or they just don't care any more about their ground radials. There is more to their woes than IBOC, although that seems to be hurting WMAQ, WGN, and WBBM - or whatever call letters they have today. They used to be overnight powerhouses in Houston, now only WBBM. Oh and the station on 1000 - they used to be a lot better than they are now. I remember a trip to Baltimore - about mid afternoon I was waiting for a plane at the airport, I tuned around and 1000 was the strongest station on the radio. I assumed it was a local, but no - it was Chicago. I think it was a Christian station then.

Back to New York stations - I know when I lived in Daytona Beach Shores, 660, 770, and 880 were easy to hear all day long on a GE SR-2 with only its internal ferrite. I lived in that house on the intercoastal waterway for 10 months - reception never varied with season. At night they were obliterated by Cubans for the most part. WOR was never there, a strong 710 in Miami swamped them. As for Chicago stations in the daytime - no luck although WLW was there all day long. WSB was really strong as well, but something broke the path to Chicago. I don't remember WSM or WHAS in the daytime, and I did listen for them. I moved a few miles inland in Port Orange - not a trace of the New York or other stations. I need to get back to Florida one of these times and do a "sanity check"on my earlier observations to confirm them. This time with a video.

It sounds like you were in the perfect spot with saltwater on all sides which likely makes a big difference compared to where I was the couple times I DXed from Daytona Beach.

The first time was only a brief day trip and I set my stuff up near the beach not far south from the causeway.

The only distant station I might have had a slight trace of was WCBS because there was blatant co frequency interference fluttering with WZAB which had a weak barely audible signal.

The second time, I stayed overnight in the same area. That night, WABC and WCBS sounded as close as they do where I grew up 80 miles from New York.

It was a huge difference between how they sound here on the west coast of Florida at night.