KRTH playing 2004 music!

[oldies76]

You're on the right track but they don't evenly rotate 90,000 songs. They drop in a few "lost gems"(or whatever you want to call them) per hour. For the most part a "music fan"(your word, not mine)would probably recognize and appreciate most of it. The masses probably would not. For one thing, it's possible to hear "adult leaning" songs back to back, say "Calcutta" followed by "King of the Road" but generally, it's a nice experience IF you occasionally like to hear something like "He's Sure the Boy I Love" and don't mind sitting though an occasional totally unfamiliar song.

Well, even with the musical knowledge and likes, even for my tastes, 90,000 songs is way over the top. I'd settle for 2000-4000 songs. But I do get yours and Big A's points. The "lost gem" idea 2-3x an hour is a good idea, but yes I know, some stations cannot do that in some markets. I get the picture guys...

 

[semoochie]

But let's be clear about this: The motivation here is to attract some people who will pay money for this kind of radio, and it's my experience that it's a very small group. Nothing wrong with that but it means that small group HAS to be willing to pay. Otherwise it's a very expensive hobby.

That's true and their website bears it out but according to said website, they have 16 underwriters, which I think is pretty good in the first three months, when you consider that the 65dbu contour barely clears the bottom of the mountain. Let me go off topic for just a moment to say that I think "KISN" is the best set of call letters ever, for a Top 40 station! They had a jingle, starting in 1959, for the overnight show that ended "...and we're gonna be kissin' 'til dawn.". How could anything else make that kind of connection at that time? It was even a little risque'!

 

[TheBigA]

It's an interesting story, and I see they also did a Kickstarter campaign to move the transmitter to Portland earlier this year.

I went to their website and noticed that they don't stream their signal.

 

[semoochie]

It's an interesting story, and I see they also did a Kickstarter campaign to move the transmitter to Portland earlier this year.

I went to their website and noticed that they don't stream their signal.

It's supposed to be in the planning stages but I'm not going to say anything if/when it happens because I don't want to put them out of business. They really DO need to do something else about these streaming rules! I'm a little confused about your concept of moving the transmitter site to Portland. It's a new LPFM that was already assigned to Portland. They just had to find a site.

 

[TheBigA]

From what I could see, they had been operating on another frequency, and then bought this one. This is from their press release:

The new KISN will be a listener supported, non-profit, non commercial station funded by underwriters and the listeners themselves. The Kickstarter campaign aims to raise $10,000 to acquire the necessary equipment, licenses, and infrastructure to put the station back on the air and on the web and mobile devices. The Kickstarter will run for 30 days, ending on March 10, 2015.

As for streaming, it's a big issue, and it won't be getting cheaper or easier. The music industry hates free streaming because it has destroyed their business model. So they're making it expensive and difficult for broadcasters.

 

[semoochie]

From what I could see, they had been operating on another frequency, and then bought this one. This is from their press release:

The new KISN will be a listener supported, non-profit, non commercial station funded by underwriters and the listeners themselves. The Kickstarter campaign aims to raise $10,000 to acquire the necessary equipment, licenses, and infrastructure to put the station back on the air and on the web and mobile devices. The Kickstarter will run for 30 days, ending on March 10, 2015.

As for streaming, it's a big issue, and it won't be getting cheaper or easier. The music industry hates free streaming because it has destroyed their business model. So they're making it expensive and difficult for broadcasters.

I see why you're confused. When they refer to putting the station back on the air, they're talking about the legacy of KISN. They did the same thing when it was an online only effort. Come to think of it, they could also be referring to the online effort, since it's the same people behind it but either way, the LPFM is a new station.

 

[Thomps2525]

Since Frank used this thread to accuse me of being "childish" in noting how frequently certain songs are played on KRTH, I am responding here. I posted my comments about the songs played on KRTH on this thread, which is about the songs played on KRTH. I was not off topic---I was on topic. And now somebody using the name WeNeverKnew quoted Frank's comments on another message board. Some people just do not like us discussing radio, even when we give facts and not just opinions. I don't understand that.

https://radioinsight.com/community/topic/krth-30-years-ago/page/11/#post-139064

 

[davideduardo]

I see why you're confused. When they refer to putting the station back on the air, they're talking about the legacy of KISN.

What "legacy" does KISN have now, about 40 years after the FCC "condemned" Don Burden's little empire of stations for doing all kinds of evil things.

When I think of Don Burden, I am reminded of when I visited one of his stations as a kid. A staffer was kind enough to give me a tour. When we came around a corner in a hallway, I bumped right into a guy who said, "who's this little f---er?". At that point, the tour ended... and I had just "met" Don Burden.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Since Frank used this thread to accuse me of being "childish" in noting how frequently certain songs are played on KRTH, I am responding here. I posted my comments about the songs played on KRTH on this thread, which is about the songs played on KRTH. I was not off topic---I was on topic.

Doesn't matter what you think, Steve. Frank is the board General Manager and if he tells you to stop doing something, my advice is to stop doing it.

Possibly, he is responding to complaints from people who are tired of your posts in that vein. Maybe, he is reacting to my "stop flogging a dead horse" post. Neither you or I know, but we should both know that Streamline pays him to manage this site, including moderating posts.

Personally, I'm glad it isn't me having to do his thankless job.

 

[AM FM listener]

Music tests are far more specific than 25-54. One might do 21-36, another might do women 25-44 and so one.

To see what you missed, take a look at a real music test being done here: http://www.americanradiohistory.com/research_AMT.htm

Very interesting. Thanks. Would have liked being at one of these in person.

 

[Thomps2525]

Actually, WeNeverKnew, for many years I have been complaining about KRTH's repetition and dinky playlists on the XMFan site. The complaints on RadioDiscussions and RadioInsight are more recent. Frank asked me to cease and I will honor his wish. Happy?

 

[semoochie]

What "legacy" does KISN have now, about 40 years after the FCC "condemned" Don Burden's little empire of stations for doing all kinds of evil things.

When I think of Don Burden, I am reminded of when I visited one of his stations as a kid. A staffer was kind enough to give me a tour. When we came around a corner in a hallway, I bumped right into a guy who said, "who's this little f---er?". At that point, the tour ended... and I had just "met" Don Burden.

"All kinds of evil things" that are perfectly legal now but the answer is "Absolutely None!". It was over with a decade ago as a commercial identity but for an LPFM courting 60+ and since they're 60+, it's kind of like "Hey, let's put on a show, kids!". After all, this was the station of The Real Don Steele, World Famous Tom Murphy and other LA mainstays.

 

[oldies76]

Actually, WeNeverKnew, for many years I have been complaining about KRTH's repetition and dinky playlists on the XMFan site. The complaints on RadioDiscussions and RadioInsight are more recent. Frank asked me to cease and I will honor his wish. Happy?

As I said on another site, KRTH is a lost cause and no longer appeals to us. It used to, but for the foreseeable future, it no longer will. As much as us and others would like KRTH to change to it's originalities, it won't. I've accepted that now and really, you should too. That's why I listen to local radio now and other stations or sources that play songs I enjoy.

Why complain about repetition any longer? Really, there's no need to. KRTH will never return to the way it used to be. I used to complain also, believe me, but really....what's the point now.

My suggestion Steve: Just don't listen or check the media base lists any longer. I hardly do. We know what's better and we should try those avenues instead.

If L.A. audiences are content in hearing Eagles music everyday, so be it. Our playlists on portable devices and listening to small market radio are key for our musical enjoyments today and we know that.

Will KRTH ever play the #1's, like they did in 1985? No. But, I will be at home this Labor Day weekend to play all 645 of them and guess what....I'll be happy as ever.

It's my little tribute to what once was...

Enjoy man!!

 

[davideduardo]

"All kinds of evil things" that are perfectly legal now but the answer is "Absolutely None!". It was over with a decade ago as a commercial identity but for an LPFM courting 60+ and since they're 60+, it's kind of like "Hey, let's put on a show, kids!". After all, this was the station of The Real Don Steele, World Famous Tom Murphy and other LA mainstays.

Bribing congressmen is still as illegal as ever. "Lack of Candor" in dealing with the FCC is still as illegal as ever. That's most of what they got Burden for.

 

[TheBigA]

KRTH will never return to the way it used to be.

You can expand that to say NOTHING will return to the way it used to be. Larry King used to make himself miserable about the Dodgers leaving Brooklyn. He was absolutely heartbroken. When they demolished Ebbetts Field, it was the final blow. He knew they would never return. So he left Brooklyn for Miami, where he made a career interviewing celebrities on the radio. The rest is history. He never went back, and for that reason, he never worked in New York. He did his radio and TV shows from his new home: Washington DC. Of course, years later, fate and his career brought him to Los Angeles. He now has two young boys who love baseball as much as he did. And he takes them to Dodger games. He knows it's not the same as it was when he was a kid. But he's happy his boys love baseball. The point is he's not bitter about it, and doesn't beat himself up about it anymore. His friends who remember the old team are fewer and fewer. It is what it is. They're not going back to Brooklyn, and neither is he.

 

[semoochie]

Bribing congressmen is still as illegal as ever. "Lack of Candor" in dealing with the FCC is still as illegal as ever. That's most of what they got Burden for.

Eventually yes but they were after him for years for improper station identification and trying to tie the station to Portland, when it was actually licensed to Vancouver WA.

 

[davideduardo]

Eventually yes but they were after him for years for improper station identification and trying to tie the station to Portland, when it was actually licensed to Vancouver WA.

But those were minor issues compared to the overwhelming one that cost him all his properties, including Omaha and Indianapolis, too.

From "Broadcasting" May 31, 1975:

But the commission's decision outlined
a history of alleged misconduct on the part
of Mr. Burden that extended back to 1964.
Among other things, Mr. Burden was said
to have used his stations improperly to
favor political candidates of his choice.
The commission said WIFE gave free advertising
time to Senator Vance Hartke
(D -Ind.) in his 1964 campaign and favored
him in its newscasts and that KISN's
coverage of the Oregon senatorial race in
1966 was designed to aid the candidacy of
then governor and now Senator Mark Hatfield (R -Ore)

And from March, 1970:

Groundwork laid for Burden probe
FCC hearing -probably closed -will focus on charges
concerned with equal -time, contests, lotteries, billings
The FCC last week lifted a corner of
the screen obscuring its wide -ranging
investigation into the activities of broadcaster
Don Burden. It published an
order providing for a formal investigation
( "Closed Circuit," March 2),
which indicates the scope of the investigation.
The order, which could lead to revocation
proceedings against one or more
of the Burden licenses, is cast in general
terms. But it states that the inquiry
is aimed at determining whether any
of Burden's three licensee corporations
or any of their principals or employes
has violated Section 315 of the Communications
Act, statutes prohibiting
fraudulent contests and banning the
broadcast of lottery information, and
commission rules regarding the filing of
contracts.
Previously published reports indicate
that the equal -time law matter might be
concerned with charges involving Senator
Vance Hartke (D -Ind.) and Senator
Mark Hatfield (R -Ore.) (BaomcAsrrNo,
Dec. 18, 1969). Senator Hartke is said to have been given free
time on Mr. Burden's wIFE(AM) Indianapolis
during his 1964 re- election
campaign. And Mr. Burden is said to
have directed his reporters to favor
Senator Hatfield in his 1966 Senate
race; if true, this could provide grounds
for a charge of violation of the fairness
doctrine, which is incorporated in Section
315.
The commission's inquiry is also intended
to uncover whether any of the
Burden licensee corporations or their
principals or employes made misrepresentations
to the public in broadcast
announcements regarding contests, or
the commission in connection with previous
inquiries into the operations of
the Burden stations. And it raises the
general question as to "whether the
licensees or their principals have otherwise
so conducted themselves as to raise
questions as to their qualifications to
remain licensees."
The Burden stations are KISN(AM)
Vancouver, Wash., licensed to Star
Broadcasting Inc.; KOIL -AM -FM Omaha,

 

[semoochie]

But those were minor issues compared to the overwhelming one that cost him all his properties, including Omaha and Indianapolis, too.

From "Broadcasting" May 31, 1975:

But the commission's decision outlined
a history of alleged misconduct on the part
of Mr. Burden that extended back to 1964.
Among other things, Mr. Burden was said
to have used his stations improperly to
favor political candidates of his choice.
The commission said WIFE gave free advertising
time to Senator Vance Hartke
(D -Ind.) in his 1964 campaign and favored
him in its newscasts and that KISN's
coverage of the Oregon senatorial race in
1966 was designed to aid the candidacy of
then governor and now Senator Mark Hatfield

No argument here. The unfortunate thing for Burden is that he had the chance to just lose WIFE and save the rest of the stations but didn't and lost them all.

 

[K.M. Richards]

As I said on another site, KRTH is a lost cause and no longer appeals to us. It used to, but for the foreseeable future, it no longer will. As much as us and others would like KRTH to change to it's originalities, it won't.

I feel for you, waving that white flag over in the corner, but reality is what it is, KRTH's numbers are solid in the money demos (which makes CBS happy), and it would take a major paradigm shift in the way advertising agencies buy radio for "change to [sic] it's originalities" to happen.

The bottom line continues to be that a radio station's success is dependent on making the highest number of listeners want to tune in. Since KRTH is doing so well now, one has to conclude that they're doing that. Those who want otherwise are in the minority.

As Spock put it: "The needs of the many outweigh the concerns of the few."

Now, here is what I am happy about for you ... technology now allows you to have personal playlists and call up the songs you want to hear that radio can't play anymore. You can sit at home over Labor Day weekend and play all 645 songs that made the #1 slot. You can even repeat ones you particularly like.

I just wish you hadn't had to bloody your forehead by hitting it against that brick wall as much as you did to get to the level of understanding you now have. (I also hope Steve takes your advice and stops his song counting, as I get the feeling he is on thin ice on both discussion boards now for that.)

I'm glad we were able to expand your knowledge of the business. I hope we can do it again sometime, without the same level of contentiousness.

 

[davideduardo]

(I also hope Steve takes your advice and stops his song counting, as I get the feeling he is on thin ice on both discussion boards now for that.)

Song counting here should be prohibited, just as card counting is prohibited at casinos.