• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Hypothetical Question: AM Daytimer Style

Interested to see what the panel of experts thinks about this hypothetical question.

You are given the keys to an AM Daytimer. Has nothing established. No ties to the community. Just running like a ghost ship.

How would you program it? What would you do to make it successful?

If you will take this seriously, this could be an intriguing discussion.

Dan
 
Dan, what a great post.

I am assuming you might be describing a small market station.

If not, I think the only viable option is leasing the station if in a large market because no matter what you do in programming, an FM can do it better and the chances are the percentage of listeners you can attain will be so small it will be difficult for a single location business to see results from the few listeners within the business trade area. Certainly, in most cases, advertising agency dollars are nil on a good day. I manage a major market daytimer.

If you speak of a small town AM, then analysis of what is already serving the area comes in to play.

Being in radio since the day of 45s and cart machines, I would say making money to sustain the station by whatever means are available is priority one, even if it differs from the plan you have for the station.

My first boss told me if a radio station was a reflection of life in the community it would gain listeners and advertisers that would fund it. His concept is by serving the rest falls in to place. I know from experience, advertising does not fall from the sky, so equal effort, at least must go to cultivate relationships with the local business community.

I'm of the school local is best, especially in a small market. In fact, I'd take it a step further: I'd prefer be the best choice for local information versus the favorite music station. In music selection, I'd choose to ruffle as few feathers as possible, to attempt to earn at work listening and build a reputation of being the local station, even if it is more by perception.

I would think a website, perhaps streaming and eventually a FM translator would be part of the plan.

I would focus more on information than music. All the small market trappings of a buy-sell-trade program, local community announcements, frequent weather and especially local voices would be a key factor. In one market I simply could not compete with the newspaper owned FM station with high school sports and heritage reputation, so I used liners to allow anyone who would do so, to record a station ID to give the perception of local. I also used social media to give the illusion that if you wanted to know what was going on locally you'd stay with the station or you might miss something.

Almost as important, diving in to the local community is essential. You need to know the folks in town, be at ribbon cuttings, work with local non-profits and such to create a physical awareness in addition to the local imagery on the station.

A friend of mine years ago explained success with a small daytimer in a small market meant getting as many locals on the air as possible. Much of this was via short phone calls. For example, in one small isolated town with only a couple of signals, I had the local NWS weather observer call in each morning with the official high, low and precipitation. I had a weekly library report, high school coach report and more. Mondays we had summaries of local church services called in. One station I knew of had a school absentee report. I had a County Extension Agent with the recipe of the day sponsored by the local grocery store. We ran funeral announcements and even had the head of the local historical society call in every Friday. I had a daily call for the police and fire report. In fact, I even stole the idea that when the fire trucks went out, we announced it. The City had a weekly report as did the county. There was a smattering of short devotionals and a fishing report too. We carried local pricing reported by the farm and feed store, livestock auction reports and such. Many were short but almost everything was sponsored.

I would say about 30% of programming was news, information and weather including the above features on average. Advertising was around 8 minutes an hour. Music was based on well known songs regardless of when it came out or whether it was country, top 40, etc. Simply put, if the song was pretty much universally known and not offensive to most all listeners, we played it. We leaned heavily about 40+ in listeners.

As you might suspect, we did a couple of specialty music shows on the weekend, Christian music Sunday mornings and a few local ministry programs or Church Services. Our objective was to try to keep the community feeding us information allowing us to run and sell the station. We had to spend some time 'prodding' or 'encouraging' the contributors. Since many features were called in or we'd call, many were placed in automation to save money.

By no means were we a cash cow but we made ends meet with a tiny staff. Eventually the station upgraded with a directional array to hit many more people but for a time, it was the sound of local community radio. It was a fun time. I never really got used to the way I sold much of the advertising, sitting in a booth over a slice of pie and coffee at the cafe, then buying everyone's coffee when I left. And I have fond memories being a part of 5 employees that made it happen for way too little money.

We used the liner "we sound like home" and 'welcome home'. Our Christmas programming was 'Home for the Holidays'. At one point when a dairy did delivery door to door (not that long ago) we had the driver call in with his daily observations. The temperature was given as 'on the front porch it's...'. I can't take credit for this as much as simply carrying the ball. But it sure felt good to be important in the eyes of the listeners.
 
Last edited:
Hopefully the land has value. I don't believe you could make any money. Even a 24 hour a.m. can not make money. The only ones that have a chance are the 50kw all news heritage stations, such as a WCBS. I have been in this business a very long time and I believe that an a.m. signal no longer has any value.
 
Interested to see what the panel of experts thinks about this hypothetical question.

You are given the keys to an AM Daytimer. Has nothing established. No ties to the community. Just running like a ghost ship.

How would you program it? What would you do to make it successful?

If you will take this seriously, this could be an intriguing discussion.

Dan

Hmmm, if this were me in SC, let's say my hometown of Charleston I'd go Urban Oldies and translate it to a FM translator!
 
It depends where...

I'll just say Beaufort Co., since I lived there for a good portion of my life.

I would first look to acquire a FM translator quickly. That being said, the market can do OK with a daytimer.

I'd look at one of two options for an AM daytimer (or for that matter, flea-power at night) around those parts: Tourist-oriented radio for Hilton Head or a local news/talk station.

With the tourist-oriented station, the reduced operating hours in winter are fairly irrelevant. Being able to run the station 5:30a-8:30p in the summer would be fine. Run 2-5 minute ads for various businesses along the way to the beach, traffic updates, weather/tide info every 15 minutes, all interspersed with beach music. Depending on the success after the first year in the winter I'd determine if it would make more sense to just broker the station out (or offer it to be programmed by a college) October-April in the future. Having a strong promotion program and visible studios would be key for this to work, though.

For the news/talker, I'd be "live & local" (unless a translator was had...in which case, I'd run live 6a-6p) since the area has a separate identity from Savannah and Charleston where a majority of the news/talk options for this area are. Perhaps some college sports and sports talk in the evenings/night hours.

A FM translator would open up the game to local music formats and the opportunity to sell bulk ads in the evening/overnight hours.

Radio-X
 
The best areas where an AM daytimer could "restart" would be in ex-urban areas, i.e., county-seat towns within 40 or 50 miles of a top 100 radio market. An ideal target would be those towns where the only FM became a move-in or rim-shotter targeting the metro market.

These markets would also be the least likely to get new FM competition in the future, since the spectrum is already used up by the metro market. (Unless the 92 to 108 goes contour-protection like the 88 to 92, in which case all bets are off) And yes, FM translator is a must.
 
Excellent point joebtsflk1. With all the rimshots now, there are many quite viable communities with a differing identity from the metro that would likely really appreciate a local station again. An FM translator is certainly a must but I suspect if local content was included, a stand alone AM would have a chance even if a daytimer.

On the LPFM front, a station moved from their town, going from a local to regional emphasis. The LPFM came in and has incredible support and enough local listening to make things work. They, while mostly automated, are purely local in non-entertainment programming. In fact, they lured high school sports away from a regional FM.

Talking Tourist Information Radio, as an earlier poster, I studied the format and spoke to several operators of such stations. The biggest problem was merchants signing up for the reduced annual rate only to cancel after the primary tourist season was over.

I pretty much learned that the station had to be more than a station. You need print and website to complete the package. Offering brochures with space sold for listings, coupled with website doing the same, perhaps a seasonal tabloid geared toward tourists and an over the air presence with a mix that can go up to 30 minutes an hour of advertising is not out of the norm. For the visitor, listening to the radio station should immerse them in the community making them aware of sites and merchants offering what the tourist will utilize, giving good directions for motorists. It was suggested using business owners on spots and local voices representing local attractions as the key to success.

On an advertising end, it was suggested an organization membership with annual fee to be a part of the marketing to visitors. One fellow charged $1,800 for membership annually or if you wanted just, say Memorial Day through Labor Day it was $1,500 with another $500 for the big Christmas thing the town did from Thanksgiving to Christmas. The idea was to get folks to kick in $300 more to be on all year. Merchants got a listing in the bi-annual tabloid and all related brochures plus a listing on the radio (and the website). There was a short write up on the business in the tabloid and the radio station did a minute long interview about the business that rotated on the radio station (and maybe stream). If a business wanted an ad, radio, online or in the tabloid, there was an additional charge. This guy went Sports Talk after 3 years but at the time he switched he had over $100,000 annually in advertising/memberships and had convinced the Visitors Bureau to funnel a portion of the room occupancy tax to the organization. He was carried by the cable TV system on a message channel as well. He figured he could have stayed with it and topped out at about $300,000 annually. He used only part time staff. The radio format was totally automated. He had rotations of certain information every 15 minutes and staggered rotations on features. The station was a daytimer that had a tunable signal for about 40 miles. Another thing he did was try for billboard space from advertisers with a small "Tune to..." amid the merchant's message. He had the state, county, city and even the feds erect signs on highways saying for tourist information tune...

Of the stations I looked at, one was almost all commercials. Another had no commercials but mentioned businesses that were members. For example, at exit 405, you'll find... with a bit of description of the businesses. These repeated every 15 minutes. Others used a 30, 60 or 120 minute rotation, mostly selling a spot an hour for about $250 to $300 a month. The most interesting was the use of trivia questions spaced within the hour, offering the answer a few minutes later to keep listeners tuned in. Some gave weather forecasts and others didn't. Some did traffic and parking reports but some didn't. In all instances, the use of local people from the police to the local museum and such was emphasized. The most clever use was a 'roving reporter' stopping in to businesses to ask the owner to tell them about the business. Many business owners were told the visitor came by because they heard them on the radio.

Most stations using the VIR "Visitors Information Radio" Format were short lived.

A very unique VIR station was a live daytimer. In each hour was a calendar of events every 15 minutes, complete weather every 30 minutes and two 5 minute interviews each hour. Advertising was 8 minutes an hour using a combination of 5 second and 30 second units. In a quarter hour there might be 3 5 second units and 3 30 second units with two of those being sponsorships of either the calendar of events, weather or interview. The filler was music but restricted to only musicians that played in the town's venues. At one point the station billed just under $50,000 a month. Quite frankly, it was a pretty much year-round tourist town. This, by the way, was almost 30 years ago. It should be noted their location meant FM signals were few and they were the only radio station locally.

Billing for VIR stations ranged from a high of almost $50,000 to about $30,000 for the almost all commercial VIR station to about $8,000+ to A couple in the $5,000 a month range to one non-comm FM doing the format that only cracked about $100 a month, but in perspective, they were funded by the local Visitors Bureau.

One of the most unique was Bob Meadows when he had KMBL in Junction, Texas. If you have ever driven I-10 across Texas, you know towns are few and far between in West Texas. Whether coming out of San Antonio, you had a couple of hours plus on the road by the time you hit Junction and if coming from the west, you had many hours of driving through some of the more sparsely populated area of the USA, so you were ready to stop. Bob took his station to a Visitors Information format from 7 to 10 in the evening. The deal was he would get $1,000 a month (if my memory is correct) in room tax money to do it. Clients could buy ads for $1 to reach visitors. Bob said he never made a dollar after 7 unless it was a high school football game, so it was sort of icing on the cake. My understanding was all parties were quite pleased but he got many complaints from business owners about the music being gone in the evening (the same businesses that refused to allow any of their spots to play after 6pm). KMBL had highways signs, was on billboards (included in the billboard image although the billboard might be for a gas station, motel or restaurant, it would say tune 1450 at the bottom).
 
My first question would be: What's my starting budget? I need to know that to know how many people I can hire, how long I can pay the bills before the money runs out, and if I can afford an all-local format, or use one by satellite. Even when I started my paper route when I was ten, I had a starting budget.
 
Absolutely, it starts with your budget. Then you need a very educated and researched plan to reach breakeven on a certain schedule. All local can be purely automated and even satellite delivered in respect to the breaks you cover with local content. Lots of folks forget when you start a new station, those ramp-up costs can get really big really fast. In fact, ramp-up can be so much you can never recover the initial losses because the potential of the station can never recoup the expenses. Folks just see a station making money but don't see that half million it too to get the station to that point.

As a former owner taught me, it's not what you can do but what you can get done. Applied to local, that is involving as many within the community for local content so you end up being their cheerleader versus gathering all the info to put on the air yourself. Sure, a weekly or daily short phone call might not be the best air quality but local voice and local information tends to trump that and tossing it in a file to play at a certain time is like the cherry on top.

I knew a guy that ran a 24/7 small town station that taught everyone how to do things as he was a one man show. He had clients and people doing features downloading things to the computer and he even had a few clients that would stop by and produce their own spots (he kept a key hidden). In his little town he had no problems and still has a loved local station, the only local station on a very vacant radio dial. His breakeven is really low...$100 for rent for a 10 by 10 office and a tower site traded for 5 spots a day. He even trades his phone and his dry pair to the transmitter. Certainly he's not laughing all the way to the bank, just a small market guy that loves that sort of radio who can pull a decent living from it. Even the local paper's editor does a couple of morning newscasts, partly because he is in a northern town where many businesses are in somewhat of a mall (about 40 offices & small retailers that open to the outdoors or enclosed hallway) and the paper has an office two doors down!
 
Last edited:
A standalone daytimer is a tough business case today. I agree with the others above, it can only work in a sufficiently large small-town (population: 3000 to 10000) with something of a business district.

But if I decided I'd need 5 years to build up listenership and advertising to profitable levels, I'd call that "too much risk" and turn in the license.
 
There are a few stations like this that I see being discussed on these boards. Some of them are owned by former engineers, so they can handle most of the technical problems themselves without paying someone. Programming isn't their first knowledge base, but they know what they like. So they're programming for their taste rather than directing at a particular audience (other than "people like me"). What ends up happening is they become popular among music fans who listen via the stream. The bad news is the stream makes next to no money, but costs a lot due to increasing music royalties. The bigger problem is that sales also isn't their primary area.

I've often told people the best way to an LPFM is put it in another business that you own, like a restaurant or bar or record store. Think about Cracker Barrel Old Country Store, where people go to eat, and while they're there, they might buy a CD. That way, you have a dependable revenue stream that isn't strictly dependent on the radio station. Because you're not going to make a lot from advertising. The bad news with this idea is that competing restaurants or bars won't advertise. But they probably wouldn't anyway.
 
Remember .... Advertising is prohibited on LPFM stations.

Yes I know, that's why I say they need a revenue stream, and a restaurant is a good way to do it. An AM daytimer isn't much better than an LPFM. In my area, the LPFM actually has more listeners than the 1K daytimer. So I'd suggest the economies are similar. The amount of advertising you'll get at the AM won't be enough to cover the costs IF your primary interest is the programming.

There's an AM station being discussed on the North Carolina boards that's asking for listener donations. He could sell advertising, but it's not enough to pay for his stream. He says he needs $5000 in donations to pay for his stream. You need to think outside the box if you want to run a small market 1KW AM station today.
 
Last edited:
Speaking of a venue to carry the station (somewhat), there are a couple of stations that have a small venue for live music.

About once a month one station brings in a band that they play on the station and they split the door. On off weeks they have a local Opry where people can play for free for the group. The station keeps all revenue on these weeks and they bolster things with selling soft drinks, coffee, tea, prepackaged snacks and candy. While this does not produce a ton of cash, it surely helps a great deal. On Opry weeks its mostly a pot luck sort of thing (dinner and entertainment) while on live band night, the let other non-profits serve the dinner (ie: Fire Department selling barbecue, etc.). According to the guy I talked to, one hand feeds the other. The attendees come from the radio audience and the audience loves the station because it is more than just a spot on the radio dial.

By the way, they let other groups use the venue (family gatherings, office groups, meetings, etc.). For this they charge a nominal fee.

I might add, the venue is not fancy: they converted a closed up 4 bay auto repair shop they bought cheap and decorated with flea market and garage sale finds. Since we're talking Country, Southern Gospel, Americana and Bluegrass (emphasis on acoustic), the rustic venue works.
 
Last edited:
There's an AM station being discussed on the North Carolina boards that's asking for listener donations. He could sell advertising, but it's not enough to pay for his stream. He says he needs $5000 in donations to pay for his stream. You need to think outside the box if you want to run a small market 1KW AM station today.
If this is the station I'm thinking of, actually, the donations are for royalties for the music. The stream is $3000 extra per year, and they didn't make that goal.

And this being the South Carolina board, it's worth mentioning that this station I'm referring to is actually in South Carolina even though the studios are in North Carolina.
 
Small market radio is tough (I'm in the 36th poorest County in the nation and we are FM). We survive with a lot of community involvement. Weather, interviews with locals and the community, and yes a buy sell trade show.

We keep expenses low for those lean months.

Unless your AM is established in the community, or in a situation that you are the only game in town, I wouldn't bother (unless you can match it with a translator). I would also make sure it is a class D so I can save on electricity.

I just saw one AM daytimer that was purchased for $180K back in 2006 go for less than $60K. Listening for an hour (around noon on a weekday) I heard no commercials..Zero.

The advertising community knows that AM has very little reach in medium and small markets. Unless it is an established station (and most of those have or will add a translator).

The 250 mile rule will save many AM stations. The rest will run until they cease to exist.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom