95.3 Philadelphia

[broadcastguy]

So, this station is coming back in this translator:
W237EH 95.3 Mhz
250W from Pennsauken, NJ.

This makes 3 latin stations in Philly, all in translators.

 

[Chip]

Don't forget the Spanish format on WUSL-HD-2, I would imagine that makes 8 Hispanic signals that can be received in the Philadelphia area.

 

[Chip]

Forgot one more WPEN-HD-3 (now its Supra), so where I live in Fishtown, I can receive, 540, 690, 1310, 1340, 1590, 1680, 95.3(soon), 97.1, 97.5-HD-3, 98.9-HD-2 and 105.7. A bit oversaturated don't you think. Some may be a simulcast or rebroadcast signals, but nevertheless they are available over the air.

 

[davideduardo]

Forgot one more WPEN-HD-3 (now its Supra), so where I live in Fishtown, I can receive, 540, 690, 1310, 1340, 1590, 1680, 95.3(soon), 97.1, 97.5-HD-3, 98.9-HD-2 and 105.7. A bit oversaturated don't you think. Some may be a simulcast or rebroadcast signals, but nevertheless they are available over the air.

The only ones that get any measurable listening are the two FM competitors, Mega and Supra. The HD channels on their own get no listening and, other than 1310 and 1340 the AMs, whether religious or brokered get no listening.

So there are really only two stations competing in the market for the real listening of a portion of the 480,000 Hispanics in the MSA.

 

[Chip]

If what you say is correct, then why are they on the air, wasting frequencies when these so called not listened to stations could be utilized as Standards, Classic Oldies, News, Sports, Talk, Asian, or other language, Religious and other programming that is not available in the area now...

 

[davideduardo]

If what you say is correct, then why are they on the air, wasting frequencies when these so called not listened to stations could be utilized as Standards, Classic Oldies, News, Sports, Talk, Asian, or other language, Religious and other programming that is not available in the area now...

The assumption is that the existing formats either make money or serve the goals of owners such as religious groups.

Standards is a format that just can't make money anymore, as the listeners are predominantly over 70.

Sports is well served in the area, and on a limited AM would fail. Same for talk.

50's and 60's oldies have the same age issues as standards, with all listeners out of the ages advertisers want.

Asian formats can do well, but never expect them to get ratings as Nielsen does not do DST for Asians. But in markets like LA, SF and Houston there is a responsive audience and lots of revenue.

As to the Spanish language stations, Supra has to have an HD to enable the translator, so count it as one. Mega uses a low power AM to allow a translator. WHAT has bee through more than half the formats you mention, and failed. The 1680 is brokered... 690 is religious so you see there are really only a few "competitive" formats and the rest do what they can with limited facilities.

 

[SP447]

The only station that makes a little bit of money and has a good bit of listeners is Mega 1310 and 105.7 in which by the way they are for sale. Davidson media has sold all of their properties and the only one left is mega 1310 here in Philly. Apparently they haven't found a buyer for WEMG because they are asking 3 million for the station and most buyers interested think the price is to high for a 1,000 watts station and an FM translator that is not even theirs its an LMA. Every other Spanish station is barely making money and don't even show up on the ratings.

Philadelphia has a big Hispanic population a growing and a Spanish station should be doing really well but unfortunately not even half of the entire population listens to all of these stations combined. People are very disappointed with Spanish radio in Philly after Mega sold their South Jersey FM signal 104.9 and dismembered the most successful team in Philly Spanish radio history back in 2003. Then in 2006 Clear Channel launched Rumba 104.5 and 9 months later they tuck it away from FM putting it on a crappy AM signal. For the last 8 years people were stuck listening to AM radio in which people hate it and don't support these stations, only the older people were willing to listen to AM radio. As technology grew Hispanics, same as the rest of the people living in this country adapted to listening to their music by internet. Latinos in Philly will listen to radio again only if a full power FM signal is flip to Spanish and we all know that will not happen any time soon. The FM translators are good if you live in the area of coverage but most people listen to radio in their cars when they commute to work and all of these stations don't cover no more that 8 miles, you listen for 10 15 minutes and then you lose it, people hate it, that is why Latinos will continue not supporting Spanish radio in Philadelphia. Every other market in the east cost is doing extremely well with Spanish formats in good full power FM signals but not in Philly.

 

[Chip]

But you must admit, there are 3 Hispanic city grade signals in this market on FM, I had 95.3 today on my car radio, all the way to Trenton, this signal is a powerhouse, I called my buddie in Claymont DE for a test and he can receive it there. No other ethnic can boast 3 FM signals in the Philly market, so whats the problem, and should their really be any other language signal in America other than English.

 

[davideduardo]

But you must admit, there are 3 Hispanic city grade signals in this market on FM,

City grade is defined as 70 dbu.

Using 97.1 as an example, the city grade signal covers 250,000 persons in a market of 5,400,000 persons.

City grade is where 80% of in-home and at-work listening to a station happens.

I had 95.3 today on my car radio, all the way to Trenton, this signal is a powerhouse

No, it is not. A good car radio can use a much weaker signal than that needed in fixed locations that are behind walls.

No other ethnic can boast 3 FM signals in the Philly market, so whats the problem,

You mean "ethnic group" right?

WUSL, WDAS, WWLU, WRNB and WPHI serve the African American community directly and all but WWLU are Class B signals with fairly complete market coverage. Mega and Supra are translators.

and should their(sic) really be any other language signal in America other than English.

Please look at the First Amendment for the answer to that.

The US has had "foreign" language media since the times before our independence.

 

[K.M. Richards]

I'm reading David's response to Chip's post and it seems Mister Seven Posts has struck out.

Better luck next time you're at bat.

 

[Bill_W]

With these AM stations getting FM translators, why isn't CBS picking up a few to put KYW on where the power lines interfere with 1060 AM? Is CBS maxed out on anything else in Philly? I could see 250 watts out of Cherry Hill serving the community better with all news all the time and traffic on the 2s. Put one out here in Chester County too.

 

[SP447]

I live in the city myself, very close to the Hispanic area and the only signal that I can pick up very clear in my car in most parts of the city is 105.7, after 105.7 is 95.3 the closer I get to the Delaware river in the north east of the city the more clear it comes in but in the Hispanic areas it comes in and out, I guess because of the height of the antenna, north Philly has many tall buildings and makes it hard for a low power to penetrate in those areas. 97.1 is a crappy signal outside of center city, Camden and south Philly comes in very clear and strong but every where else you lose it.

 

[davideduardo]

With these AM stations getting FM translators, why isn't CBS picking up a few to put KYW on

Most, if not all, the available dial locations for a translator are taken. Any that might be possible as move-ins would likely be restricted by full B overlap issues and could not locate anywhere near the sites of the major Philadelphia stations.

 

[Chip]

A city grade signal to me is one that covers all areas inside the city limits, over 2 million residents, from the Airport to Upper Darby DELCO, to Country Line Road in the Northeast to Chestnut Hill going west and all 3 signals cover this area, and FYI my friend in Claymont had a table radio not a car radio....

City grade is defined as 70 dbu.

Using 97.1 as an example, the city grade signal covers 250,000 persons in a market of 5,400,000 persons.

City grade is where 80% of in-home and at-work listening to a station happens.



No, it is not. A good car radio can use a much weaker signal than that needed in fixed locations that are behind walls.



You mean "ethnic group" right?

WUSL, WDAS, WWLU, WRNB and WPHI serve the African American community directly and all but WWLU are Class B signals with fairly complete market coverage. Mega and Supra are translators.



Please look at the First Amendment for the answer to that.

The US has had "foreign" language media since the times before our independence.

 

[davideduardo]

A city grade signal to me is one that covers all areas inside the city limits, over 2 million residents, from the Airport to Upper Darby DELCO, to Country Line Road in the Northeast to Chestnut Hill going west and all 3 signals cover this area, and FYI my friend in Claymont had a table radio not a car radio....

There are three things wrong with your position:

1. "City Grade" is a standardized "term of the trade" which means the signal coverage at 70 dbu. You can't redefine standard terms.

2. Radio markets are not defined by single cities. They are defined by Nielsen and called Metropolitan Survey Areas. The Philadelphia MSA consists of 4 counties in PA and 3 in NJ. Radio sales and audience measurements are based on this definition, not single cities.

3. The translators do not even put a full City Grade signal over the entire city of Philadelphia. Again, they are low power translators with rather limited signals

 

[atthestars]

2. Radio markets are not defined by single cities. They are defined by Nielsen and called Metropolitan Survey Areas. The Philadelphia MSA consists of 4 counties in PA and 3 in NJ.

Not to be nitpicky, but doesn't the MSA cover 5 PA counties? Chester, Delaware, Montgomery, Bucks, and Philadelphia?

 

[K.M. Richards]

A city grade signal to me ...

Sir, please, for the love of God, stop.

Every time you open your mouth you prove how little you know. As David points out, you cannot redefine the industry standards ... especially if you are going to post on an industry-sponsored site.

Please do yourself a favor: Before you post anything else, read some other threads where these things are explained. Learn what a market definition is, what a city grade signal is, why there aren't going to ever be rules against non-English broadcasts, why some formats are not viable because the potential audience is too old to attract ad dollars, what an "ethnic group" really is, the limitations of translators.

A little education can go a long way. Please obtain some. It's all here for you to read.

 

[davideduardo]

Not to be nitpicky, but doesn't the MSA cover 5 PA counties? Chester, Delaware, Montgomery, Bucks, and Philadelphia?

Yep! My bad. 5 counties it is.

 

[broadcastguy]

Reading all these posts I ask myself again. Why there isn't a full power FM Latin station in Philly? Guys, this is a major market, we have full power Latin stations all over the country and they do work, can't see why it wouldn't in Philly. . I'd LOVE to see a few examples of full power stations in Philly that are struggling or not making a good buck (i'm sure there is at least one). If there is nobody willing to pull the trigger and buy a station or make the flip, that's another thing.

 

[Bill_W]

Reading all these posts I ask myself again. Why there isn't a full power FM Latin station in Philly? Guys, this is a major market, we have full power Latin stations all over the country and they do work, can't see why it wouldn't in Philly. . I'd LOVE to see a few examples of full power stations in Philly that are struggling or not making a good buck (i'm sure there is at least one). If there is nobody willing to pull the trigger and buy a station or make the flip, that's another thing.

Clear Channel did with 104.5 for awhile. 104.9 pretended to be a Philly station for awhile doing Latin too.