I was making a general comment on your "less government" statement. I doubt anyone outside of a Ancient Modulation station owners care about sky wave protection. But since it was off-topic, I won't elaborate further.
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SAVE WLW Night time Signal Petition
- Thread starter microbob
- Start date
I was making a general comment on your "less government" statement. I doubt anyone outside of a Ancient Modulation station owners care about sky wave protection. But since it was off-topic, I won't elaborate further.
If a daytimer on 1560 fires-up a kilowatt at night, they will effectively eliminate reception of the clear channel 1A station on 1560. So that's what this is all about- the 1A clear channels might get to keep their 50KW, but all the pee-wee stations that reduce power at sunset or are daytimers will ruin the skywave signal for these guys. Heck, for the FCC AM improvements, I was hoping that the clear channels would be allowed 750KW like they asked the FCC for back in the 1960's and were refused.
There is no reason whatsoever for 750 kW. It'd be a waste of 700 of those kilowatts and thousands of dollars in electric bills for a station with comparatively few listeners outside its own metro area. Skywave is a financial non-starter. Give me one reason why WLW needs to be heard in St. Louis, Dallas, New York, or LA.
Under some skywave conditions, the 50kW signals could cause interference to the local reception of the low-powered stations on the same frequency.
More medium-wave stations is not a solution. It's part of the problem.
And yet the licensees who PAY for those skywaves disagree. As licensees and as the responsible financial custodians, they have asked their listeners to sign petitions.
They're the ones paying the bills. What's your role in the process?
I thought the "conventional wisdom" was that out-of-metro listeners were irrelevant to advertisers, and didn't make one thin dime for the stations. I can understand that because even though I can hear WLW on rare occasions in Phoenix, I can't buy their local advertisers' products (of course, online listeners outside the Cincinnati area have the same issue). They "allegedly" need to keep running 50 kW to put a good signal into their own metro over the increased noise level that AM listeners have to put up with nowadays.
Uh-huh. So what's your problem with that? Unfortunately, that's the deck of cards they've been dealt by the FCC. AFAIK, there's nothing in the AM revitalization plan that attempts to deal with that increased noise. So instead of trying to solve that problem, or at least lessen it, the FCC is creating one. Thus, this petition.
There is no need to say "allegedly".
The ITU just raised its standard for acceptable AM signal level for listener usage to 10 mV/m. The reason for the change from the prior 5 mV/m is to adjust for increased man-made AM noise and interference. The implication is that any station not serving an urban area with a 10 mV/m signal will not get listenership no matter how good the programming.
That means that most 50 kw stations don't even cover fully their Nielsen MSA with such a signal. If you look at stations like WTAM in Cleveland or WSM and WSB in the South, none of them put such a signal over the entire metro so they need every watt they have.
Stations that are directional or have lower power are even worse off, as most are based on assignments made more than 60 years ago. No manner of "AM improvement" will allow the relaxation of acceptable skywave interference and groundwave protection to allow for such stations to significantly improve their coverage. And at night, many stations already have interference-free contours that are greater than 5 mV/m so they can't improve without adding considerable interference to co- and adjacent channel stations.
If a daytimer somewhat near the former 1-A clear channel fires up 1 kw at night non-directional there is considerable chance that they will interfere within the protected groundwave service area of the 1-A when conditions favor the newcomer. So all that could be created are a bunch of additional highly directional stations that have to protect everyone else on the channel.
Remember that the US 1-A channels were "broken down" 40 years ago, and most channels have somebody in both "ends" of the country on them. 670 in Chicago and Boise, 660 in NYC and the Navajo Nation, 720 in Chicago and Vegas, etc. So any night power increases have to protect the local coverage of both.
The clear channel association began back in the late 30's and began lobbying for 500 to 750 kw about 75 years ago. The final FCC decision, in (IIRC) 1968 disbanded the group. In any event, assignments on adjacent channels beginning just after W.W. II made such increases difficult if not impossible. Even the 500 kw operation of WLW had to be directionalized back in the 30's to protect Toronto and it was not well liked by stations like WHB and WOR, either.
As much as I love radio and history, I wonder about this. I am down near Louisville..and most of us in this area the love radio are bitter about stations like WHAS, local content nearly non existent, what point having it on after dark anyways? Nothing special, Just Mark Levin and Coast to Coast... If anything would kill IHeartMedia and make them sell off all their stations...I'd sign that. Otherwise there isn't much to go on about.
Randy Michaels who was a former WLW programmer. engineer and owner knows a lot about the technical problems that plauge the AM band
http://radioink.com/2016/03/04/michaels-very-few-ams-are-still-useful/
http://radioink.com/2016/03/04/michaels-very-few-ams-are-still-useful/
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I am one of those geeks who, as a kid in the 60s and 70s, dialed around the frequencies and was amazed at all the stations I could pick up across the nation. Now it seems sort of pointless as almost every single one of them has the same syndicated crap on [Coast-to-Coast AM, Red Eye Radio, etc.] Maybe the FCC should say you only get to keep your 50,000 watt clear channel signal if you provide original non-syndicated programming during the nighttime hours. Yes, I understand the point that they're not interested in serving the public outside their listening area anymore but here in the midwest I listen to WCBS [and a few others] at night for the news seeing as there are no news stations in my area and I listen to Zoomer [AM 740] Radio out of Toronto for their musical variety. And I point out that sometimes I do patronize their advertisers if they have a web site they advertise [i.e.: Visit our store on Madison avenue in the heart of NYC or go to Fumbuck.com; specializing in Fumbucks of all shapes and sizes, order online today!]
The FCC doesn't predicate technical considerations on programming. That's not really the purpose. The concern should be if the station is a primary EBS station, and that station must be received in an area served by the skywave. There are some stations like that.
As for advertising, a large number of ads aired at night are for national products, not strictly local businesses.
I am well aware that most of the ads at night are for national products; it wasn't always that way. At least on WCBS they seem to have a lot more local or regional advertisers in the evening as well as a few national ones. I can listen to my local "classic hits" FM station in the evening and overnight and not hear one single local commercial. [And to go off on another topic which has been covered endlessly most of the DJs aren't even "local" anymore.] Matter of fact, I've noticed that outside of morning drive I rarely hear any local commercials, they're all for national products. And something I thought I'd NEVER hear in mid-morning or afternoon drive, an ad that was always regulated to overnight spots....an ad for "boner" pills. If I owned a store and had that station on when that ad had come on, it would have been the last time that station would ever be playing in my store. As an ex-DJ, I always notice when a store has a local station playing and when it's satellite fed.
Have you gone to the mall lately? How many stores are strictly locally owned? The reason you don't hear a lot of local commercials is because there aren't a lot of local businesses anymore. Welcome to the 21st century. The small local businesses can't always afford the price of advertising on the radio. They look for cheaper ways of reaching customers. This isn't a radio subject. It's part of why radio is changing, and why radio has had to increase the size of it's platform, to appeal to advertisers who want to reach more people than a local market.
Syndicated versus local is often a financial requirement at night. At one point radio might have been able to afford live and local at night but in today's world, the number of advertising venues has become so numerous, one specific media can attract only a tiny percentage of the business they once enjoyed. For example, if you're a local business, would you want to advertise on that AM News/Talk station or buy ESPN, CNN and maybe a couple of other TV networks from your local cable system and play in prime TV viewing hours for less money that the radio station charges? Maybe they reach more people via radio but in the client's mind they likely do not.
Outside of ex-radio people, no one cares if what they're listening to is local or syndicated. There isn't this bug outcry of "I wish they'd stop carrying Sean Hannity and hire somebody to talk about city council!" You have local elections in non-Presidential years with a 5% voter turnout.
Even the "local" businesses that can afford to advertise on radio in any size market are usually multi-location, like the regional restaurant chain that has several different brands.
Even the "local" businesses that can afford to advertise on radio in any size market are usually multi-location, like the regional restaurant chain that has several different brands.
Sure is a significant question. Good threads on this topic. Once in awhile I find something interesting turning the dial at night - like archive interviews with famous Cards on KMOX or something. Too bad it's slim pickings now finding anything very interesting, not to mention with strong enough signal. But...KeithE4 does have the best tag line:"We have to save the Earth! It's the only planet with football and beer".
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