Songs that test well in some areas, but not others.

[tall_guy1]

Does that happen on certain formats? I have noticed slight variations on playlists and types of songs that work in some areas, but not others. For example, Denver does not have a mainstream CHR, and their "hit music" either leans rock or rhythmic. What is your take and more examples?

Edit: This is just to discuss the differences in areas, not a criticism thread.

 

[TheBigA]

This really ties in with several other threads we've had in other areas, and my view is that this is what makes local radio local. I read all the opinions about the need for local personalities, but really, if it's a music station the music has to reflect the population make-up of the area, with knowledge of the music that was successful locally in the past. There's a thread in the Philadelphia board about songs that were stronger there than nationally. So if you program a classic hits station based on how a song charted nationally, you might miss songs that got lots of local airplay, and thus made an impression on the local audience.

The testing part of it is now starting to change with break-outs that we can see from Spotify or streaming charts, so we can now base programming decisions based on action, not traditional tests. This kind of information will replace the old Soundscan data that might have been useful 20 years ago.

 

[tested]

I can give you an old example, but it always stuck out to me like a sore thumb. In 1985 the Talking Heads released "And She Was." It got some airplay and sales around the country, but only hit #54 on the Billboard Hot 100. (according to the Wikipedia entry on the song) However, in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, it was a major hit.

Rock-leaning CHR KEGL played the socks off that song. Pop-leaning CHR Y95 followed suit. The rock stations in town also played it a lot. When KEGL did their end of year countdown of the top songs of 1985, it was the #1 song for the year. Based on the popularity of the song in my high school, I believe the #1 ranking was accurate.

Clearly that was not the case in other markets. I can't tell you why that song did so well here. It may have been that KEGL was so popular with high schoolers that good airplay there led to a lot of sales and requests for the song. I really don't know.

 

[gr8oldies]

When I moved to Knoxville, TN, from Dayton, OH I noticed a handful of southern rock titles (Marshall Tucker, etc) that I didn't hear much of up north on WIMZ.
One problem with old data is that a lot of people transplant to a lot of places and the people who live there now have no recollection of what was being played 40 years ago in town

 

[PirateJohnny]

When I moved to Knoxville, TN, from Dayton, OH I noticed a handful of southern rock titles (Marshall Tucker, etc) that I didn't hear much of up north on WIMZ.
One problem with old data is that a lot of people transplant to a lot of places and the people who live there now have no recollection of what was being played 40 years ago in town

...and they take their tastes with them, so now there is somebody in a new area that remembers/likes music that wasn't so big there.

 

[schmave]

When I lived in Houston, I noticed KKRW, the old 93.7 The Arrow that played classic rock, regularly played Santana. Of course I'd heard "Black Magic Woman", but they regularly mixed in "Europa" and "No One to Depend On," songs with obvious Latin American influences I'd never heard on classic rock stations in Columbus or elsewhere in the Midwest.
Obviously the demographics are quite different between Houston and Columbus. That's just the first example I can think of; sure there are others.

 

[Groove1670]

With more stations combined and with certain national charts owned by one company, regional hits will be few and far between.

I've spoke with several younger programmers who believe if it is on charts, play it no matter what.

I argued skipping a few songs on the charts will not hurt your station. Not all songs that chart might work in your market. If it doesn't fit your audience.

Callout research was a great tool in many markets, and created solid regional hits. Also with youtube, and other video choices a song is most likely to go viral (and get airplay) in many markets.

I don't know if a programmer at some stations is necessary if corporate says, add this. (Note: I have never worked in the corporate glass tower and I am just speculating on the mandates in place now).

If you are fortunate to be a programmer that has some autonomy, this is where your program skills are tested and put into use.

 

[TheBigA]

With more stations combined and with certain national charts owned by one company, regional hits will be few and far between.

I don't see this as a factor at all. National charts have been with us for over 65 years. I know that I've consulted those charts during my career, and know they have always been a source of information regardless of station ownership. The difference today is that is that airplay charts are not the only source for information. Billboard does two charts, the second one including streaming and other sources. Music today is made by national companies, and national artists, who appear on national TV, and who use the internet as a means of distribution.

Local radio is not the only way people listen to music. In the competitive world, the best music wins. So if a local radio station sees that a song is gaining national attention in streaming charts, that station is not doing its job if it ignores that song for one reason or another. At the same time, it's not unusual to have competing radio stations in the same market in the same format, so airplay of songs will be affected by that competition.

The other factor I want to mention is that the national charts have local requirements in order to participate. If it's determined that a radio station is simply doing what its corporate owner wants, and isn't considering local factors, including local shows that artists do for that station, then the station is not allowed to be a reporter for that chart. Those charts are overseen by the record labels, who have a stake in the process. So my point is that ownership has not affected the charts, and the airplay charts truly reflect local airplay.

 

[Groove1670]

I'm just talking about the airplay charts.

We agree to disagree on this one. Yes streaming has been added (recently for Billboard). If your station is running a premium choice format, or running syndicated dayparts it does impact your playlist. Local requirements has been relaxed from the days of Gavin, R&R etc. Many reporting stations today wouldn't make the cut back then.

If one company has owns a third or more of the reporting stations, yes that will impact a song or position on the airplay charts. When a company plays a new song on a group of stations on the hour (every hour) it doesn't take long to wrap up spins. However, results has been mixed on the success of a single using this method.



The criteria is very different these days.

 

[TheBigA]

If your station is running a premium choice format, or running syndicated dayparts it does impact your playlist. Local requirements has been relaxed from the days of Gavin, R&R etc. Many reporting stations today wouldn't make the cut back then.

The amount of premium choice you run dictates whether or not you become a reporter. AFAIK, the percentage hasn't changed, and once again, the record labels are the ones who have the most to lose if you're simply running an outside format. What we're seeing with a lot of syndicated formats is they provide workparts (hosted pieces) and the local station adds the music. That's how Ryan Seacrest is done. That way the station keeps its reporter status, and the company gets its market access. From what I've seen (and I look very carefully at this), even if one company owns a third of the reporters, they find it very difficult to get a song into the Top 30. The chart is still based on consensus, and all the players understand the game very well. So just because one company has a dog in the fight, that doesn't mean everyone is going to feed their dog. And the labels understand that. Those who run the charts are looking to give balance to their reporting panel.

 

[davideduardo]

I'm just talking about the airplay charts.

We agree to disagree on this one. Yes streaming has been added (recently for Billboard). If your station is running a premium choice format, or running syndicated dayparts it does impact your playlist. Local requirements has been relaxed from the days of Gavin, R&R etc. Many reporting stations today wouldn't make the cut back then.

But most stations in reporting markets today are not running syndication, but, as BigA says, formats built with workparts. That means the station does its own music log, but inserts the voice tracks and other elements from the outside source. Even shows like Delilah have localized versions where the station does its own music.

Or take "Jack" as an example. Outside the Top 50 markets, it is done as full syndication but in the big markets, the station does its own music blend, often with local music testing. The "network" provides the voice work, consulting and other services.

If one company has owns a third or more of the reporting stations, yes that will impact a song or position on the airplay charts. When a company plays a new song on a group of stations on the hour (every hour) it doesn't take long to wrap up spins. However, results has been mixed on the success of a single using this method.
.

No company except Cumulus was dumb enough to try to do the same music in every market, and the ouster of the Dickey Clan has ended much of that with programming becoming decentralized.

While stations may share research within a company, it is generally done in an intelligent form, such as looking at the research for specific areas or zones of the country to spread the research costs around.

 

[TheBigA]

No company except Cumulus was dumb enough to try to do the same music in every market, and the ouster of the Dickey Clan has ended much of that with programming becoming decentralized.

BTW, all of their stations were dropped by the two trade charts and were added only after they changed their policies.

 

[gr8oldies]

iHeart's Premium Choice affiliates have the same music log in every market. The current based stations using Premium Choice were also dropped from the trades.

BTW, all of their stations were dropped by the two trade charts and were added only after they changed their policies.

 

[davideduardo]

iHeart's Premium Choice affiliates have the same music log in every market. The current based stations using Premium Choice were also dropped from the trades.

Many Premium Choice stations just use the talent, not music. That way the placement of stopsets, number of spots, service elements and so on are totally local in nature.

While the playlists may be similar (as is normal in any particular format) they generally are not identical as a BDS or MediaBase log review of a number of them will reveal. The places where there is more uniformity tend to be the unrated or very small markets that are not used by the monitoring services.

 

[Groove1670]

I understand the Seacrest process (generic tracks from his morning show for the most part). We have it in our market (complete with dead air). With local program resources being trimmed because of budgets, I would speculate that adds are dictated from regional programming at some stations.

Would you say the programming staff at Y100 has the flexibility for adds like it had in the days with Metroplex. I would say no.
But the argument would be that research now is better than the days of callout, and the methods are different now.

 

[davideduardo]

Would you say the programming staff at Y100 has the flexibility for adds like it had in the days with Metroplex. I would say no.
But the argument would be that research now is better than the days of callout, and the methods are different now.

Under Metroplex, Y-100's list was determined by local callout... so, although adds are made based on feel, after a couple of weeks they stay or get blown away based on research (I was "in the building" in Hollywood for a while).

And stations use what we still call "callout" today. Most is done online, or a recruit is offered the choice of doing the test online or by phone. That data is combined with other information based on streaming and downloads, but the key data is what your own listeners say... download data can not tell you if your P1's are burnt on a song.