Philadelphia Radio Ratings: May 2016

[Jul]

Philadelphia radio ratings
May 2016 (April 21 - May 18)


http://ratings.****************/cgi-bin/rol.exe/arb007

http://www.allaccess.com/nielsen/q/market/89/philadelphia-pa

The June 2016 ratings (May 19 - June 15) will be released on 7/5/2016

 

[Jul]

The new ratings have been released. Thoughts?

 

[Tylerbreeze]

I would have to say, the three commercial rock outlets in the city are all in the top six, so that makes me think Philly is really a Rock Town, maybe more then Boston. WRFF never ceases to amaze me, since the Spanish format flopped 9 years ago and they flipped to Alternative, they have been 4.0 or above since then, with a very, very, safe, Alternative format, is this their best showing?

 

[davideduardo]

I would have to say, the three commercial rock outlets in the city are all in the top six, so that makes me think Philly is really a Rock Town, maybe more then Boston. WRFF never ceases to amaze me, since the Spanish format flopped 9 years ago and they flipped to Alternative, they have been 4.0 or above since then, with a very, very, safe, Alternative format, is this their best showing?

Of the three, the only one that is not a heritage, traditional station is WRFF.

While the station is at a 4.0 level, it is 19th in market billings and revenues have declined in each of the last three years. Obviously, aside from the bail bonds and check cashing places, the local direct accounts don't like the station.

And that sort of results makes any owner very nervous about doing such a format in another market... particularly New York which is considerably more ethnic.

The other two are among the market's top billers. But they target an older demo, and NYC already has such a station. What you are asking for is not going to happen.

 

[atthestars]

Of the three, the only one that is not a heritage, traditional station is WRFF.

Not to threadjack, but this begs the question from me... when does a station become "Heritage"? The former Y100 served Philly as a Modern Rock station for approximately 10 years (if you don't include the CHRish years). WRFF has now spent 9 years playing Alternative in Philly. While no, it has not held the same format as WMGK (20 or so years) or WMMR (40+), it has been the go to station for a chunk of the demographic for a full decade. While some would argue Y100 was heritage and some would not... there are definitely people in the younger end of the demographic who would easily consider WRFF as "heritage" in their perception.

 

[davideduardo]

Not to threadjack, but this begs the question from me... when does a station become "Heritage"? The former Y100 served Philly as a Modern Rock station for approximately 10 years (if you don't include the CHRish years). WRFF has now spent 9 years playing Alternative in Philly. While no, it has not held the same format as WMGK (20 or so years) or WMMR (40+), it has been the go to station for a chunk of the demographic for a full decade. While some would argue Y100 was heritage and some would not... there are definitely people in the younger end of the demographic who would easily consider WRFF as "heritage" in their perception.

Good question... I'd say that it likely takes a generation (20+ years) to make a station qualify for heritage status. I look at whether a station has been able to continue serving a demo where nearly all the original listeners are now out of the demo, being replaced by folks who were "too young" back at the beginning. If a station can achieve successfully a total audience turnover, they are heritage in my point of view.

 

[chrocket87]

Of the three, the only one that is not a heritage, traditional station is WRFF.

While the station is at a 4.0 level, it is 19th in market billings and revenues have declined in each of the last three years. Obviously, aside from the bail bonds and check cashing places, the local direct accounts don't like the station.

]

I listen to WRFF from time to time, so other posters should not take this as a "hate" on alternative or WRFF, but at what point does iHeart realize they could probably bill much better by being the 2nd Country or AC in the market?

 

[atthestars]

I listen to WRFF from time to time, so other posters should not take this as a "hate" on alternative or WRFF, but at what point does iHeart realize they could probably bill much better by being the 2nd Country or AC in the market?

That begs two questions:

Is the Country audience/ad pool enough to split to make it worth being the 2nd country station? IHeart recently launched a second Country station in Chicago, to fairly dismal results so far.

As for being the second AC... they already have that. Mix106. Mix is run on the cheap, but also, it's been proven time and time again, it's nearly impossible to topple the dominance of WBEB.

So at the moment, while they are billing 19th with Alternative, keeping the course would be cheaper than billing about the same as the 2nd place Country or another AC, while also incurring the costs of re-imaging and promotions/commercials to let Philly know they have a new station to listen to.

 

[Tylerbreeze]

I listen to WRFF from time to time, so other posters should not take this as a "hate" on alternative or WRFF, but at what point does iHeart realize they could probably bill much better by being the 2nd Country or AC in the market?

Why pick on their Alternative station when you have Power and DAS similar in audience and music, Q and MIX similar, RFF is the only difference in the pack, and doing better than all the others and closing in on DAS. Seems like you do have something against Alternative to make that statement.

 

[davideduardo]

Why pick on their Alternative station when you have Power and DAS similar in audience and music, Q and MIX similar, RFF is the only difference in the pack, and doing better than all the others and closing in on DAS. Seems like you do have something against Alternative to make that statement.

RFF underbills significantly. It has a power radio of 0.33, meaning that for every audience share point, it gets .33% of the market revenue. It's 19th in billing in the market..

 

[Tylerbreeze]

So what I gather by all the comments, is even though WRFF constantly rates over a 5.0, they should be blown up for yet another worn out, CHR, Urban, Country, Rhythmic, AC or Sports format, because Alternative is a wasted, dead, non billing format, with no loyal following. But keep Mega, PHI, PPZ, ZMP, RNB, PEN and BEN alive with their dismal ratings, because they bill well, or serve a special audience, makes sense, if you do not care if the Alternative listener has no where to go for their taste on the T-Dial, and you prefer a 2.0 with a great biller and an expensive format to run, LMAO. Lets hear your thoughts on PHI, PPZ or BEN, their OK with everyones logic.

 

[davideduardo]

So what I gather by all the comments, is even though WRFF constantly rates over a 5.0, they should be blown up for yet another worn out, CHR, Urban, Country, Rhythmic, AC or Sports format, because Alternative is a wasted, dead, non billing format, with no loyal following.

I am not saying to change it. I am just saying that the format is hard to monetize for more recent converts to the format (meaning in the last decade). It severely underperforms revenue-wise, and is not converting that 4 share into 4% of market revenue... more like 1.35% of market revenue. And that is under-performing and seeing such low revenue in an adjacent market would discourage a NYC station from trying the format.

But keep Mega, PHI, PPZ, ZMP, RNB, PEN and BEN alive with their dismal ratings, because they bill well, or serve a special audience, makes sense, if you do not care if the Alternative listener has no where to go for their taste on the T-Dial, and you prefer a 2.0 with a great biller and an expensive format to run, LMAO. Lets hear your thoughts on PHI, PPZ or BEN, their OK with everyones logic.

Let's compare apples with apples, pleaze.

Mega is a tiny-signal AM with an even smaller footprint translator. It's making nice money, but in a sub-segment of the market. The others you mention are all billing more than WRFF.

The biggest problem is that you are looking at the totally irrelevant and worthless 6+ ratings. Ad buyers who use ratings look at specific target groups. For example, WPEN (FM) does well with a range of adult males and is priced right for advertisers based on audience delivery.

Some formats do better sales-wise because they appeal to an age range or lifestyle that more advertisers want. Others sell less because advertisers may not like the "environment" of the station... and all of these goes beyond the ratings rank.

 

[Tylerbreeze]

The only conclusion I can make is, if a station like WRFF can rate higher than all the others but bill lower is, the Alternative/Rock listener is more educated, works hard for their money and is not a spend thrift, not being conned into purchasing every product that is broadcast on these other outlets. I guess the advertisers want the less educated, sports macho jocks, or young unemployed kids, with no money value, that go out and buy everything they hear on these stations, which makes these stations more lucrative to these advertisers, more people buying products they don't even need, thus higher billing, that is the only reason I can think of.

 

[pab]

Part of it has to do with demographics. Alternative performs better 12-35 than 35-54. Advertisers aren't quite as interested in those listeners and that means rates may tend to be a little lower.

And a big part of it probably has to do with the sales team. It takes a huge, dedicated team to cover a market the size of Philadelphia. Who knows what kind of resources Clear Channel (I refuse to use that stupid new name of theirs) is putting into RFF's sales team. And if you look at the demographics of its sister stations there is a lot of overlap so it might be harder to sell combo packages.

I tend to think that CC is probably happy owning that format in town instead of having to invest money into making the station a #2 in an established format.

 

[Oscar Madison]

Who knows what kind of resources Clear Channel (I refuse to use that stupid new name of theirs) is putting into RFF's sales team.

The old name was just as stupid considering that Class A AM stations represent a small percentage of the company's total stations, total audience and total revenue.

 

[davideduardo]

The only conclusion I can make is, if a station like WRFF can rate higher than all the others but bill lower is, the Alternative/Rock listener is more educated, works hard for their money and is not a spend thrift, not being conned into purchasing every product that is broadcast on these other outlets. I guess the advertisers want the less educated, sports macho jocks, or young unemployed kids, with no money value, that go out and buy everything they hear on these stations, which makes these stations more lucrative to these advertisers, more people buying products they don't even need, thus higher billing, that is the only reason I can think of.

Your analysis of the demographics and income levels of the typical non-heritage alternative listeners and the typical listener to other formats is totally wrong. A quick Tapscan run on WRFF would show you this.

 

[davideduardo]

Part of it has to do with demographics. Alternative performs better 12-35 than 35-54. Advertisers aren't quite as interested in those listeners and that means rates may tend to be a little lower.

Speaking of WRFF (and because it was brought up as an example of the "success" that a similar station might have in NYC), it is #4 in 18-24 and 8th in 12-17. It is 3rd in 18-34, and 2nd in 18-49 and 25-49. In fact, it is 2nd in 35-44.

And a big part of it probably has to do with the sales team. It takes a huge, dedicated team to cover a market the size of Philadelphia. Who knows what kind of resources Clear Channel (I refuse to use that stupid new name of theirs) is putting into RFF's sales team.

The rest of the cluster does very well. It has 4 stations in the top 15 billers, including one that is virtually tied for 2nd.

And if you look at the demographics of its sister stations there is a lot of overlap so it might be harder to sell combo packages.

I don't see any overlapping format. There are two urban variants, an AC and a CHR. None of those formats is among the high sharers with alternative.

I tend to think that CC is probably happy owning that format in town instead of having to invest money into making the station a #2 in an established format.

It bills less than half of the billing of its second lowest billing FM. I can not imagine how they would be happy with that.

 

[davideduardo]

The old name was just as stupid considering that Class A AM stations represent a small percentage of the company's total stations, total audience and total revenue.

The name was adopted when Lowry Mays and McCombs bought the struggling WOAI, a 1-A clear channel station, in the mid-70's. And considering that they own about 14 or 15 of the original 1-A and 1-B clear channel stations, the name was appropriate until the company focus moved to new media and streaming.

 

[Oscar Madison]

The name was adopted when Lowry Mays and McCombs bought the struggling WOAI, a 1-A clear channel station, in the mid-70's. And considering that they own about 14 or 15 of the original 1-A and 1-B clear channel stations, the name was appropriate until the company focus moved to new media and streaming.

I'm aware of the history. I understand they have 19 class A's. Even at the beginning, they had one FM and one AM. Now it's 19 out of 800 and change. "Clear channel" is meaningless to most people and doesn't represent the scope of their business. It's just meaningless bragging by two J.R. Ewing types. Not that naming a radio company after a New York tourism bumper sticker or a cloud formation makes more sense - or less.

 

[Steve Green NEPA]

@ David .... got a question I asked on another forum about Alternative:

That .3 power rating is something I find puzzling. Aren't younger listeners what FM in particular (radio in general) want and need ? Doesn't the mantra 'the younger the demo the more receptive it is' matter here?

Why is almost a decade of listeners, solid, considered so undesirable?